big john

He doesn't post here anymore. I would be curious to see that thing myself.

michelsal

Even a small 250 watt front hub drive will mean you can keep from pedalling harder than your pain threshold allows but allow you to keep going and get the benefits of cycling strengthening and lubricating your knees. easy to add to the Townie!

JanMM

He hasn't posted on BF since 2015. One post and done!

michelsal

Since I'm reading things several years old, I assume others may be too. a warehouse of people's knowledge and experience!

JanMM

Looked as if you were responding to the OP, who hasn't posted on BF since he started this thread. Not uncommon with Zombie Threads. Yes, old threads can be full of good information.

BlazingPedals

Electric-assist bikes are becoming a legitimate option for those with knee problems, which was not the case back in 2015 when this thread started.

timtak

My knee problems have been largely cured (at 57) for the time being by
A) Exercise while pulling on my knees to repair the meniscus (as recommended by pursuance)
B) Rotational exercise to improve core strength and
C) (Why I am posting here) "pedaling forward.”

C contains A (since I pull as part of my pedal stroke) but I still have to do B once in a while.
By "pedaling forward.” I mean
1) I use lots of rear saddle offset
2) I push forward with my ankles pointing down as much as possible, and as early as possible, by imagining I am sitting on the chair (rather than saddle) of a very tall go-kart or recumbent. In fact my legs are pointing down at about the same angle as my seat tube but they feel forward.
3) The end of the push will be at about 4 or 5 O'clock. I then pull back from their using my glutes in a whipping motion like I am pointing mortar on a wall in front of me.

The advantages are that I am not using my weight so that I can unload my push more easily, and since at the 4-5 Oclock position I can still pull with my glutes (as opposed to attempting to pull upwards behind my butt) which means I can keep the chain taught and speed high transferring seamlessly from quads to glutes. The fact that the end of the push is with my ankles down and toes up helps me to cushion the end of the push. And the fact that I am using my glutes means that my knees get pulled (for meniscus repair) and my glutes get a good workout and I think that is glute strength (or weakness) that is the critical factor in sore knees since it is not wear so much as using ones legs when they are bowed (inwards or outwards) that results in sore knees. Core (butt) exercises cure sore knees, and to a considerable extent core exercises can be achieved on bike in the pull back part of the stroke.

Someone on these forums recommended to me a Youtube doctor who recommends curing knee pain by sitting on a table, and waving ones feet backwards and forwards with weights on ones ankles. I find that this can be achieved by pedaling with just glute pull and it works. I am trying to find the post so I can tell someone else.

Here is the post recommending weighted leg movements by Dr. John Bergman D.C.recommended by forum member pursuance https://www.bikeforums.net/20467413-post52.html
Pursuance has not posted since 2018 when he was 71. I am very grateful to pursuance.

BlazingPedals

This is a distillation of the group's wisdom: Different platforms - upright, crank forward, or recumbent: all those may do is change your hip angle. If the pedal circle is the same size, the extension at the 'bottom' of the pedal stroke defines where the pedal circle starts, and the knee bend at the top will be the same for any given crank size. If you want less knee bend, get smaller crank arms. Shorter lever arms will cause pedaling forces to go up, so compensate for that by gearing down. The concept you're trying for is to pedal smaller circles faster, but use less pressure.

timtak

A nice conclusion but, while hip angle shouldn't therefore make much difference, for me, with the hips positioned such that the main quads powered pedal stroke is parallel to, or perpendicular to gravity makes quite a bit of difference to how easy and fluid it is to unload, and redirect, the pressure at the end of the stroke,

If I am pushing down with my quads in a stomp, parallel to gravity, not only is more difficult to stop at the end and not result in compression of my knee joint, it is much more difficult to transition to an effective glute pull. Pushing forwards helps
1) unload the end of the stroke (since there is only inertial not gravitational force behind it) and
2) pushing forwards at an angle (or backwards at an angle, as in time trial type toe down position) helps I think to transition to using ones glutes, by using ones ankle, imho.

That said I think that triathletes (especially but not entirely) who use mid-foot cleat positioning manage to pedal in circles from above the cranks, without using their ankles at all, for a lower position, and rested calves for the run.

I think that forward (heel drop) and backward (toe pointing) styles of turning the pedals make knee protection and glute use easier.

BlazingPedals

I think you're just talking about pedal stroke here -- pedaling circles instead of doing continual squat thrusts. That's also a Good Thing(tm) although it's independent of what platform or what size cranks you're using. On an upright, you should make like you're wiping mud off your shoes at the bottom of the stroke and pushing your feet forward at the top. Pedaling circles also has the effect of distributing the pedaling stresses to more muscles, giving you more endurance overall. This is a strong point for clipless pedals; you can push forward/pull backward without your feet coming out of the pedals.