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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

We're going to yell at you.

Old 07-15-19, 02:27 PM
  #2826  
zigmeister
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
I've been participating in hard core rides like this for 20 years. And I'd have to strongly disagree with two points:

• If you can't pull through, you pull OFF. This 'pull through even if it kills you' nonsense is absurd, simply because if the rider who fails to pull through is unable to - well then all the frantic flailing around trying to catch the 30mph wheel in front of him - the one that he didn't have enough snot to reach in the first place - is only going to make the inevitable gap that is created LARGER. And if you want to 'Yell' at the offender, that's your adolescent perogative. Get a clue. If that dude pulls OFF he's done you a favor by keeping the gap 20 yards instead of 50. And if you're too weak to close a 20-50 yard gap maybe YOU'RE the one who has no business being on that ride. Nobody likes it when the guy in front of them lets a gap open up. But that is strictly YOUR problem. Hey, the poor guy who just allowed it to happen is about to get DROPPED all together. Look at it that way. Isn't that penalty enough?

You 'must hammer until you're at the front'. Yeah, OK. What do you do to those who don't? SHOOT them? Bring a big clip cowboy. As always, Titanium bullets please.

• You're advising people in a 30mph paceline to make sudden moves around bumpy pavement? The last time some idiot did that our local 30mph ride a couple of months ago he nearly took DOWN the 5 guys behind him. If you can avoid pavement smoothly, predictably, you do. If you can't, you ride OVER it and HOLD YOUR LINE. Spare us the whining about your $1500 Zipps. Get a trueing stand.

God, that's the most elitist crap I've ever read.

ELITIST ELITIST ELITIST.

Zieg Heil mein kleine Road Nazi : ).


Thanks for this post...sounds a lot like one of my local weekend rides where there are a lot of mostly fast Masters racers/riders. There are some former Pro and a mix of Cat 1-5s. Most of these people I see at the 35+ Masters races. So already, you know there are going to be 50% of the group that isn't going to want, or be able to do pulls at 30mph. Even with a stop sign and a few corners where we slow, it is 26+mph avg for 25-30 miles. People are red lined on this ride all the time. Then, when people pull off or refuse to pull through the pace line and move over to the left side people coming back off the front due to the crazy pace, or won't pull through and just want to sit on the wheels in front...which is like 75% of the group BTW, here comes the usual 4-5 people yelling at them about sucking wheels, not taking pulls etc. Or, they just like to target some people for jumping roundabouts, when 4-5 people do all the time. But one is their buddy wearing the same club kit...but choose to yell something dumb to the person they don't know about being dangerous jumping the roundabout...when it is done safely, piece of cake, it is nothing and done very safely and you avoid the bad bike handling around the curve...hence why I do it.

When you have some guys like a former State RR and TT champions, or US Pro rider in the group that can simply ride from the back of the 40-50 person group, and go to the front and hammer along at 30-32mph for seemingly miles, then string everybody out redlining people...you should expect that a big portion of the group is never going to pull, if they do, it isn't going to be pretty and of course, things start to get messy, unorganized...and then yelling commences. For us, it is like 4-5 people that seemingly are always starting nonsense with some people. This includes a woman or two. I thought woman were supposed to be the more sensible of the sexes? Guess not..Type A personalities with them I guess as well.

I can go on and on about this one local ride...if it wasn't such good training, I would be out of there. But it really is getting to the point, and maybe their entire end-game of these people, to get rid of people they don't like on this ride for whatever reason...including not pulling through at times, which of course those same people sit in and don't pull themselves plenty of times when it gets going bananas on the ride.

It is a combination of the fast pace, people not pulling through, and the worst part of that, the attitude of some people that really make it a not very fun ride anymore.

So many people, estimate 15%, no longer show up to this ride because of the nonsense/dangerous crap that is going on at time, like running this one stop sign always....then the stop sign runners like to jump/take off and use it as some attack point and the rest is chasing for 2 miles to bring it back together. Dangerous, childish etc...it is a training ride. Go down the road 3 miles to another group ride, not racers mostly, but still a good training ride/speed/tempo, the ride and people are a complete 180 degree...friendly, chatting, making conversation even if strangers/new to the group. But this Master/high-level big portion racer group...what a difference in people/attitudes with some of them.

I know, I'm the problem and I'm going to get yelled at.

Last edited by zigmeister; 07-15-19 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 07-15-19, 03:00 PM
  #2827  
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I used to ride on a team that the coach would ride along on a little motorcycle. It was actually kind of nice because he would carry cold drinks in his bags and if someone got a flat, the group would just keep riding at about a 12mph pace and he would motor pace the rider back on after he fixed the flat. He was, however a stickler for following the scheduled training for that day. If was an endurance day, you better be in zone 2 or he would yell at you.
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Old 07-15-19, 03:14 PM
  #2828  
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Originally Posted by zigmeister View Post
Thanks for this post...sounds a lot like one of my local weekend rides where there are a lot of mostly fast Masters racers/riders. There are some former Pro and a mix of Cat 1-5s. Most of these people I see at the 35+ Masters races. So already, you know there are going to be 50% of the group that isn't going to want, or be able to do pulls at 30mph. Even with a stop sign and a few corners where we slow, it is 26+mph avg for 25-30 miles. People are red lined on this ride all the time. Then, when people pull off or refuse to pull through the pace line and move over to the left side people coming back off the front due to the crazy pace, or won't pull through and just want to sit on the wheels in front...which is like 75% of the group BTW, here comes the usual 4-5 people yelling at them about sucking wheels, not taking pulls etc. Or, they just like to target some people for jumping roundabouts, when 4-5 people do all the time. But one is their buddy wearing the same club kit...but choose to yell something dumb to the person they don't know about being dangerous jumping the roundabout...when it is done safely, piece of cake, it is nothing and done very safely and you avoid the bad bike handling around the curve...hence why I do it.

When you have some guys like a former State RR and TT champions, or US Pro rider in the group that can simply ride from the back of the 40-50 person group, and go to the front and hammer along at 30-32mph for seemingly miles, then string everybody out redlining people...you should expect that a big portion of the group is never going to pull, if they do, it isn't going to be pretty and of course, things start to get messy, unorganized...and then yelling commences. For us, it is like 4-5 people that seemingly are always starting nonsense with some people. This includes a woman or two. I thought woman were supposed to be the more sensible of the sexes? Guess not..Type A personalities with them I guess as well.

I can go on and on about this one local ride...if it wasn't such good training, I would be out of there. But it really is getting to the point, and maybe their entire end-game of these people, to get rid of people they don't like on this ride for whatever reason...including not pulling through at times, which of course those same people sit in and don't pull themselves plenty of times when it gets going bananas on the ride.

It is a combination of the fast pace, people not pulling through, and the worst part of that, the attitude of some people that really make it a not very fun ride anymore.

So many people, estimate 15%, no longer show up to this ride because of the nonsense/dangerous crap that is going on at time, like running this one stop sign always....then the stop sign runners like to jump/take off and use it as some attack point and the rest is chasing for 2 miles to bring it back together. Dangerous, childish etc...it is a training ride. Go down the road 3 miles to another group ride, not racers mostly, but still a good training ride/speed/tempo, the ride and people are a complete 180 degree...friendly, chatting, making conversation even if strangers/new to the group. But this Master/high-level big portion racer group...what a difference in people/attitudes with some of them.

I know, I'm the problem and I'm going to get yelled at.
Try not to kill yourselves boys. P.S. Blow me.
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Old 07-15-19, 03:42 PM
  #2829  
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Ya had some crazy 15mph group rides we had pros join up one time pulling gigawatts at 17mph so naturally guys would redline wouldn’t help pull so ya lots of yelling
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Old 07-15-19, 04:01 PM
  #2830  
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17 mph!?!? Were you on ebikes?!?
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Old 07-15-19, 06:39 PM
  #2831  
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Think I've located those 4 *******s on that ride.

They are all in this thread for sure.
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Old 09-13-19, 11:47 AM
  #2832  
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Wow, I've missed some good stuff in here.

I think when some super fast rides get too big, but don't have some kind of "Darwin hill".........there's problems. And Darwin hill shouldn't catch a "sprinter" type out. Just folks who don't really belong.

A perfect example of this was the Assault on Mt. Mitchell in the first hour to 90 minutes. Freaking couple hundred people in the front group flying along at like 30mph average and not having to do any more than like 120w. All sorts of stupid going on in there. There was a dude off into a field at some point, he was SUPER lucky there wasn't a cow wire fence there. There would have been a disaster.

The Darwin hill doesn't come until "Bill's Hill" some hours into the ride.

Our weekly ride is kind of crap for this conversation. It's mostly a segment hunting playtime. The city breaks up the route too much to be similar to these rides you speak of.

People burn a match on one segment, but not other stuff. Some people will pull a long time, some not. One or two still try to "win the ride" doing dumb stuff.

If I want the ride to really hurt, I do some kind of workout at lunch that has a good amount of intensity to it. Like some 3x3's or 3x10's. This more than makes up for this not being the "fastest" ride in town. However, I've done much faster rides but always have more NP on this one.

Then again, this ride started out with the A's doing 23mi at around 18.5mph avg on about 60 feet per mile elevation two years ago. Now, we're at 20.5mph some nights. This is with about 30 turns in the route and about a dozen stop signs or stop lights to slow us.

I've done the route alone at 21mph, but that's because it was 6:30AM on a Sunday morning and I could just blow through everything. It's THAT slow a route during the evening with traffic and stops.

We're not on your level of "350w pulls" whatsoever. Lol. On the in-town ride I'll usually accumulate 10+ minutes of power at 350+ watts. Chump change for y'all, but plenty for me.

I'm kind of over worrying about what other people are doing. I just want a workout, to see some fellow riders, and share a beer afterwards. Oh, and get back to my car ALIVE.
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Old 09-13-19, 02:08 PM
  #2833  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Wow, I've missed some good stuff in here.

I think when some super fast rides get too big, but don't have some kind of "Darwin hill".........there's problems. And Darwin hill shouldn't catch a "sprinter" type out. Just folks who don't really belong.

A perfect example of this was the Assault on Mt. Mitchell in the first hour to 90 minutes. Freaking couple hundred people in the front group flying along at like 30mph average and not having to do any more than like 120w. All sorts of stupid going on in there. There was a dude off into a field at some point, he was SUPER lucky there wasn't a cow wire fence there. There would have been a disaster.

The Darwin hill doesn't come until "Bill's Hill" some hours into the ride.

Our weekly ride is kind of crap for this conversation. It's mostly a segment hunting playtime. The city breaks up the route too much to be similar to these rides you speak of.

People burn a match on one segment, but not other stuff. Some people will pull a long time, some not. One or two still try to "win the ride" doing dumb stuff.

If I want the ride to really hurt, I do some kind of workout at lunch that has a good amount of intensity to it. Like some 3x3's or 3x10's. This more than makes up for this not being the "fastest" ride in town. However, I've done much faster rides but always have more NP on this one.

Then again, this ride started out with the A's doing 23mi at around 18.5mph avg on about 60 feet per mile elevation two years ago. Now, we're at 20.5mph some nights. This is with about 30 turns in the route and about a dozen stop signs or stop lights to slow us.

I've done the route alone at 21mph, but that's because it was 6:30AM on a Sunday morning and I could just blow through everything. It's THAT slow a route during the evening with traffic and stops.

We're not on your level of "350w pulls" whatsoever. Lol. On the in-town ride I'll usually accumulate 10+ minutes of power at 350+ watts. Chump change for y'all, but plenty for me.

I'm kind of over worrying about what other people are doing. I just want a workout, to see some fellow riders, and share a beer afterwards. Oh, and get back to my car ALIVE.
The most important question would be.... Have you had to yell at anyone for doing something that may have prevented you from getting back home ALIVE?
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Old 09-15-19, 12:42 PM
  #2834  
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Try not to kill yourselves boys. P.S. Blow me.
The Pope has spoken!
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Old 09-15-19, 07:10 PM
  #2835  
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Every single person that yelled at someone in this thread wears shirts with pencil protectors and got their ass kicked in school
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Old 09-16-19, 07:30 PM
  #2836  
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A new guy just joined our small local neighborhood group. He's strong but he's been riding less than a year.
He was swerving all over the place and couldn't hold his line.
I refrained from saying anything (or yelling at him).
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Old 09-17-19, 07:52 AM
  #2837  
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Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
A new guy just joined our small local neighborhood group. He's strong but he's been riding less than a year.
He was swerving all over the place and couldn't hold his line.
I refrained from saying anything (or yelling at him).
If you're not going to yell at him you should take him aside and talk to him about keeping a line. Some guys have a lot of trouble with this even after having it explained to them.
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Old 09-17-19, 08:18 AM
  #2838  
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Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
A new guy just joined our small local neighborhood group. He's strong but he's been riding less than a year.
He was swerving all over the place and couldn't hold his line.
I refrained from saying anything (or yelling at him).
I'm that guy (well, without the swerving, I can hold a line lol), but I've only been riding about a year, ultra running background so I brought a strong engine to the bike game and had no problems jumping right into the A group rides. But I told the group to please let me know if I was doing anything wrong/stupid/unsafe, because you don't know what you don't know. They've been great about giving me pointers without being ******bags, but I've also done my part to pay attention to what the group and other riders are doing and trying to learn as quickly as I can.
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Old 09-17-19, 12:47 PM
  #2839  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
If you're not going to yell at him you should take him aside and talk to him about keeping a line. Some guys have a lot of trouble with this even after having it explained to them.
We've got a couple ex-racers in our group that like to take on that role. I just like to grumble.
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Old 09-17-19, 01:01 PM
  #2840  
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Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
I just like to grumble.
Time for a new thread: "We're going to grumble at you."
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Old 09-17-19, 02:28 PM
  #2841  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Time for a new thread: "We're going to grumble at you."
People will just think that it's about on-bike nutrition fueling and upset stomachs.
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Old 05-28-20, 08:08 AM
  #2842  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Learn the art of soft-pedaling. Basically, you are coasting, but you keep turning the pedals over, just not fast enough to engage the pawls of the freewheel. It looks smoother, but more importantly it is smoother because you just have to increase the rotation a bit rather than starting from zero.
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
+1
Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
If more people would soft pedal, instead of coast, it would make my life in the paceline so much more relaxing.
yet if you watch eg. the TDF, many riders in the middle of the peloton, especially in the earlier miles, will be seen coasting.
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Old 05-28-20, 08:35 AM
  #2843  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
yet if you watch eg. the TDF, many riders in the middle of the peloton, especially in the earlier miles, will be seen coasting.
The middle of the peloton is not the middle of a paceline. Beyond that, how often does someone with the physical gifts, dedication, and skill set to be riding in the TdF show up at your group rides? If it's not terribly often, we probably shouldn't be using them as a counter argument.
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Old 05-28-20, 09:22 AM
  #2844  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
The middle of the peloton is not the middle of a paceline. Beyond that, how often does someone with the physical gifts, dedication, and skill set to be riding in the TdF show up at your group rides? If it's not terribly often, we probably shouldn't be using them as a counter argument.
I do tend to soft pedal in groups, eg even tucked on a downhill, but mostly because there are enough 'experts' in the bike club who are made nervous and start braking when one stops pedaling because they 'think' that person is going to be slowing down. And then they yell at you.. see, we're back on topic!
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Old 06-13-20, 10:27 PM
  #2845  
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Interesting post, took me a day and a half to read it all with breaks. Even more interesting to see/read people’s reactions and look within myself. Recreational road rider, mostly by myself, always amazed to watch the small training groups pass me by, the technical ability, the focus.
Reading the very first post ES wrote, I never took it down the path of anger or self-righteousness many seemed to go. Was it actual yelling in a frenzy of anger or loud voice as at that pace and concentration, a normal voice would not work. The jersey tug? I never saw that as a physical yank you off your bike as much as a tug/touch to instruct or push you away. Often many, including myself read written words too literally from our point of view, not thinking there are alternates.
I find it hard to understand also why people don’t think others can ride that pace. My total road time is minimal but even at 63 with a knee issue I often can maintain 19-20mph on public toads and not be pushing myself. No, not for miles yet, but give me time.
i learned a lot reading this, not just about group rides but more importantly how even as a solo rider I can ride better and not impede those behind me, nor get frustrated with those in front of me.
thank you Event Services.

Even I yelled at a group of Young guy riders taking up an 8’ mup trail as I came around the corner. First it was “on your left”, which freaked them out to where one hit his front brake to hard and his rear wheel lifted swung into one of his group as I passed him narrowly through the bunch grass loudly saying WTF.
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Old 06-16-20, 06:51 AM
  #2846  
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Originally Posted by EventServices View Post
Our Tuesday night ride is fast and furious, and strangely has no egos. It's all the fast guys in the metro-Detroit area. We rotate a double echelon at about 30mph. We sprint at pre-determined points. We regroup. We chit chat. Then we fire it up again. We have sprinters and lead-outs. But again, no egos.

And every week, we get new riders jumping into our line and trying to roll with us. That's fine. Go for it. But you should be prepared to meet a very steep learning curve.
Some fail to realize what we're doing, and when they make mistakes, we yell.

You will get yelled at for the following mistakes:
- If you're on the front, do NOT pull the line through the bumpiest section of pavement. GO AROUND IT! There is no need to trash our wheels and bodies.
- If you're on the front, don't ride on the very edge of the pavement. Give some room for the echelon behind you.
- If you're on the front, you MUST pedal down the hills. Do not coast.
- If the line is hammering and you want out, you must hammer until you are on the front - even if it kills you - and then pull off. Do not pull out of the middle of the line. That's dangerous, and it creates a gap that the rider behind you must cover. You will get yelled at.
- When it's your turn to pull through and take your turn on the front, DO NOT accelerate. That's bad.
- When it's your turn to pull off the front, flick your elbow and move smoothly to the side. Nothing abrupt.

Please do not call us elitist. And don't ask us to 'dumb down' our training ride.
this is all just standard stuff

our Rockland group those all that + the designed sprint portions of the ride
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Old 03-04-21, 12:48 PM
  #2847  
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It's been a year since I've been on a group ride. I miss the yelling.
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Old 03-04-21, 01:21 PM
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ericcox
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Oh my. This thread started back when I was originally active on here. I was away for a decade and now it's back. I rejoined right around the time of P-Cad's death - purely coincidentally. This thread makes me miss him even though I never knew him in IRL.
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Old 03-04-21, 01:27 PM
  #2849  
msu2001la
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
It's been a year since I've been on a group ride. I miss the yelling.
Sometimes I ride the TT bike on my Zwift group rides just so my teammates can yell at me.
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Old 03-04-21, 01:38 PM
  #2850  
Reflector Guy
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Every time I see this thread it reminds me of a certain Seinfeld episode.
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