Notices
Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

Randonneuring Gearing Question

Old 11-16-10, 01:27 PM
  #26  
thebulls
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,005

Bikes: SOMA Grand Randonneur, Gunnar Sport converted to 650B, Rivendell Rambouillet, '82 Trek 728, '84 Trek 610, '85 Trek 500, C'Dale F600, Burley Duet, Lotus Legend

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Trek Al View Post
I looking to modify my Trek 520 touring bike to use for randonneuring. ...
Al
I have the same Sugino crank up front and an 11/32 or occasionally 11/34 in back. With 46x11 and 700x32 tires, I could easily spin to the mid-30 mph point at 110 rpm if I ever wanted to, but in fact I usually stop pedaling and tuck as soon as I hit about 28 mph. At that speed, gravity works a lot better than pedaling hard.
thebulls is offline  
Likes For thebulls:
Old 11-16-10, 02:21 PM
  #27  
bmike
Bye Bye
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gone gone gone
Posts: 3,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by thebulls View Post
...but in fact I usually stop pedaling and tuck as soon as I hit about 28 mph. At that speed, gravity works a lot better than pedaling hard.
+1
__________________
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
bmike is offline  
Likes For bmike:
Old 11-16-10, 04:23 PM
  #28  
George
Senior Member
 
George's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Katy Texas
Posts: 5,616

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by thebulls View Post
I have the same Sugino crank up front and an 11/32 or occasionally 11/34 in back. With 46x11 and 700x32 tires, I could easily spin to the mid-30 mph point at 110 rpm if I ever wanted to, but in fact I usually stop pedaling and tuck as soon as I hit about 28 mph. At that speed, gravity works a lot better than pedaling hard.
When you go from the 11/32 to the 11/34 do you have to add a link to you chain. I have 2 cassettes, one is a 11/28 and the other is a 11/34 and I have a 11/32 on the bike now.
__________________
George
George is offline  
Old 11-20-10, 11:28 AM
  #29  
clasher
Senior Member
 
clasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kitchener, ON
Posts: 2,691
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 214 Post(s)
Liked 109 Times in 83 Posts
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
Chances are - if you're dicking around with a calculator, you'll be dicking around when you shift.

My point, at least my original point was that modern bicycles often offer at least 16 or 18 or 20 drive train combinations -meaning you have to be a bit dim to not be able to find a usable gear.

Ok OK, I know some skinny-ass pimple face geek is going to say he usually rides a straight-block but now he needs a 28 for the San Fran crit he's going to win.

But c'mon, can't we all agree that if you have a newer bike with 18 or 20 gears, the problem isn't the gearing - its you?

PS there is no such thing as "distance this" or "distance that" - either you use equipment that works, or doesn't - and it isn't a case of 10, 50, or 500 miles to argue over.

proceed to hate mail below.........
So, HTFU. Gotcha. This should be flagged "best-of", really.
clasher is offline  
Old 11-20-10, 04:09 PM
  #30  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,139

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1543 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times in 344 Posts
Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
Yes, this is what I was thinking of.
Road Fan is offline  
Old 11-20-10, 04:13 PM
  #31  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,139

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1543 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times in 344 Posts
Originally Posted by George View Post
When you go from the 11/32 to the 11/34 do you have to add a link to you chain. I have 2 cassettes, one is a 11/28 and the other is a 11/34 and I have a 11/32 on the bike now.
I'd say probably you will need that, but it really just depends on how tightly things are set up in the first place. One tooth is not a big increase, but you might be at the limit with the 11/32.
Road Fan is offline  
Old 11-20-10, 07:07 PM
  #32  
George
Senior Member
 
George's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Katy Texas
Posts: 5,616

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
I'd say probably you will need that, but it really just depends on how tightly things are set up in the first place. One tooth is not a big increase, but you might be at the limit with the 11/32.
Thanks for the reply RF, but I was going to use the 11/34 on my touring bike. It has a 11/32 on it now, so I think it should work.I also have a 12/28 9 spd for my touring bike as well, so I think I would have to take 2 links out, if I have it set up for a 11/32 now. I was thinking about going to a 12/27 on my LOOK, which has a 12/25 on it now. Anyhow thanks again.
__________________
George
George is offline  
Old 11-22-10, 09:44 AM
  #33  
thebulls
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,005

Bikes: SOMA Grand Randonneur, Gunnar Sport converted to 650B, Rivendell Rambouillet, '82 Trek 728, '84 Trek 610, '85 Trek 500, C'Dale F600, Burley Duet, Lotus Legend

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by George View Post
When you go from the 11/32 to the 11/34 do you have to add a link to you chain. I have 2 cassettes, one is a 11/28 and the other is a 11/34 and I have a 11/32 on the bike now.
Haven't had to add a link. I guess things are loose enough that they can go from 32 to 34. But I try to avoid ever being in the big/big or small/small combinations. It's set up so it can handle big/big without breaking the derailleur, but you can feel and hear the resistance and shift out of that gear fast. Similarly small/small has some amount of chain rub against itself that you can hear.
thebulls is offline  
Old 11-23-10, 10:09 PM
  #34  
Richard Cranium
Senior Member
 
Richard Cranium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Rural Missouri - mostly central and southeastern
Posts: 2,993

Bikes: 2003 LeMond -various other junk bikes

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 29 Times in 26 Posts
What happens on a 200K when you don't have low enough gears?
What happens on a 200K when you don't have high enough gears?
If you are too dim to choose correct gearing because of the length of the ride, you are too dim too choose gearing in any case. Again, if you can't get it done with 16 or 18 or more ratios - then give it up.

And this goofy - super, wide range cassette or crank deal is just another "all -day" head ache to sort through.

There is a reason bicycles come with given gear ratios - and I guess - it must be so lame riders can guess about wider, more useless gearing setups.

End of story, eat turkey - go buy worthless gearing.
Richard Cranium is offline  
Old 11-24-10, 12:40 AM
  #35  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,334 Times in 842 Posts
looking at some of the period classics bikes French riders did the PBP trip on ,
they used wide doubles
particularly with the 9 and 10 speed cassettes with a 11 to 34,
a 44 24 may give you the range without that 3rd ring.



Last edited by fietsbob; 11-24-10 at 12:43 AM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 11-24-10, 01:57 PM
  #36  
clasher
Senior Member
 
clasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kitchener, ON
Posts: 2,691
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 214 Post(s)
Liked 109 Times in 83 Posts
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
If you are too dim to choose correct gearing because of the length of the ride, you are too dim too choose gearing in any case. Again, if you can't get it done with 16 or 18 or more ratios - then give it up.

And this goofy - super, wide range cassette or crank deal is just another "all -day" head ache to sort through.

There is a reason bicycles come with given gear ratios - and I guess - it must be so lame riders can guess about wider, more useless gearing setups.

End of story, eat turkey - go buy worthless gearing.
You really should just STFU already.
clasher is offline  
Old 11-24-10, 02:16 PM
  #37  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 18,410

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 110 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3373 Post(s)
Liked 1,328 Times in 971 Posts
Originally Posted by clasher View Post
You really should just STFU already.
Man's got a point. My '99 Trek came with the usual 52-42-30 triple and a 12-25. Stock bike. Nothing wrong with that gearing, until I was over 60. Then I went to a 12-27. BFD. Cassettes wear out, anyway. That's still what I've got on there. I gotta agree with RC. I don't understand this thread at all. The point is? Advantages being sought are? My stock Trek is flawless as far as I can tell. If you can't turn a 30-27, you need to get out more. Isn't this the LD thread? Or are people are weenie-ing about the weight of a 30T ring? But don't mind a 25 lb steel bike? Eh?
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 11-24-10, 03:41 PM
  #38  
invisiblehand
Part-time epistemologist
 
invisiblehand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 5,865

Bikes: Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Trek Al View Post
I looking to modify my Trek 520 touring bike to use for randonneuring. It is geared low with a Sugino crank at 26-36-46 and using the Cyclotouriste 13 cassette from Harris Cyclery that goes from 13 to 34. It computes at 95.5 to 36.5 gear inches with a 170 mm crank. This works great for pulling loads up hills but is lacking in speed on level or downhill.
I looking at changing the cassette to a 12-25 which would give me a gear inch range of 49 to 103 or a 11-23 cassette yielding 54 to 112 gear inches.

I've not done any randonneuring before, but don't think my current set up has enough in big gears. Don't want to try a 200k event and suffer because of the gearing. The cassette swap is a fairly cheap and easy change.

Anyone have an idea on what would be the best?

Al
One, if I follow your paragraph correctly, your calculations are off. A 26 chainring to a 34 tooth cog with a 27" wheel ~ 20 gear inches. It sounds to me that your easiest solution is to simply use an 11-34 or 11-32 if you believe that the low end is overkill but you want some taller gears. It probably mates well with your present rear derailer and in case you need a low gear you still have the bail out gears available. Personally, if you're not riding in pacelines, I think that the additional granularity of the narrower road cassettes is unnecessary. But YMMV.

46/13 ~ 3.5
46/11 ~ 4.2

So about a 20% increase in the top end. If that doesn't do it, you can change the big ring to a 48 or 50.

EDIT: I see that others already mentioned the same. Sorry for the overkill.
__________________
A narrative on bicycle driving.
invisiblehand is offline  
Old 11-25-10, 02:03 AM
  #39  
akohekohe
The Professor
 
akohekohe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Center Sandwich, New Hampshire
Posts: 899

Bikes: Alex Moulton Double Pylon, Surly Big Dummy, Alex Moulton GT, AZUB TiFly

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
I have a low 13.5 inches and a high of 126 AND 6.5% jumps between each gear. I have both steep grades (20+) and long down hills so I do use all these gears. This setup is on my Alex Moulton AM bicycle (17" wheels) with a Rohloff hub with 16 tooth cog and a Schlumph Speed Drive with 46 and 49 tooth chainrings. I can get 17" to 155" by swapping out the 16 tooth cog with a 13 tooth one. I am half stepping with the 46-49 chainrings against the Rohloff's 13% jumps between gears. I actually use this bike both for the commute (22.5 miles each way) and for long rides.
akohekohe is offline  
Old 11-25-10, 10:42 AM
  #40  
Richard Cranium
Senior Member
 
Richard Cranium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Rural Missouri - mostly central and southeastern
Posts: 2,993

Bikes: 2003 LeMond -various other junk bikes

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 29 Times in 26 Posts
My second point, was that the term "engineering" means something. When you "re-engineer" to change a gear train for some theoretical ratio - you also change many other characteristics of the drive train.

If you genuinely thought these gearing changes are so important then you should understand that you need to evaluate all the components of the drive train - making this "one angle" thread as lame and as useless as I call it.
Richard Cranium is offline  
Old 11-25-10, 08:30 PM
  #41  
Trek Al
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Trek Al's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 270

Bikes: Trek Domane SL 5& 520

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
]- making this "one angle" thread as lame and as useless as I call it.
Thanks so much for you thoughtful and well-informed posts. They have really enlighted my thinking on making any changes to my bike. It's a shame I won't be reading any more of them as you just made my ignore list.
Trek Al is offline  
Old 11-26-10, 03:44 PM
  #42  
thebulls
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,005

Bikes: SOMA Grand Randonneur, Gunnar Sport converted to 650B, Rivendell Rambouillet, '82 Trek 728, '84 Trek 610, '85 Trek 500, C'Dale F600, Burley Duet, Lotus Legend

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
My second point, was that the term "engineering" means something. When you "re-engineer" to change a gear train for some theoretical ratio - you also change many other characteristics of the drive train.

If you genuinely thought these gearing changes are so important then you should understand that you need to evaluate all the components of the drive train - making this "one angle" thread as lame and as useless as I call it.
People have been making drive train changes to bikes since bikes were invented. If the original poster, or I, or anyone else want to swap to a different cassette or different chainrings (assuming our shifters and derailleurs can handle them and we don't screw up the chainline too much) I do not think that the bicycle gods will be offended. Bicycle "engineers" are designing a drive train for some imagined "typical" rider for the type of bike they are making. That doesn't mean that it is right for the original poster, me, or anyone else.

Just out of curiosity, can you provide a cite to published or second-party information to document your expertise on either long distance bicycling or on bicycle engineering? You could start with your real name. If Lennard Zinn says something, I pay attention because he has published books and he publishes a regular column on bike tech. He clearly knows what he is talking about. If some anonymous guy who calls himself "Richard Cranium" says something, why should I pay attention?

FWIW, the only Richard in the RUSA database who lives in St Louis has ridden total mileage since 2000 that is less than many randonneurs rode this year. So I'm assuming that either you are not he, or that you are not a randonneur, given your claim to long distance bike riding expertise.

Nick
thebulls is offline  
Old 11-27-10, 07:33 PM
  #43  
shelbyfv
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 10,088
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2990 Post(s)
Liked 3,836 Times in 1,972 Posts
Thanks Bulls, I think you closed that pie-hole!
shelbyfv is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Kiramarch
Tandem Cycling
42
05-05-18 08:09 AM
WNCGoater
Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling
51
11-23-17 10:19 AM
budfan08
Road Cycling
51
03-17-17 08:56 AM
Nanaterry
Touring
26
02-02-13 10:19 AM
andboy
Bicycle Mechanics
5
08-14-11 11:33 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.