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Please Stop Being So Cheap!

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Please Stop Being So Cheap!

Old 06-27-22, 11:22 PM
  #101  
The Thin Man 
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Hey everyone.

Guess what? I'm the guy who sold the Portage from the original post. And it wasn't $1,800, it was $1,825... plus $200 for professional boxing and shipping. I posted it at midnight on Saturday. I got up on Sunday morning and it had already sold.

How did I come to my price? Well, first, it was a time capsule. Second, I spent a good chunk of time on it, just like you all do. I don't flip bikes but I do buy quality frames and put solid, great functioning equipment on them. I don't rush the job, skimp or cut corners because I want these steel beauties to stay on the road for decades to come. Third, who here has heard of the Radavist? Well John put his '87 Ritchey up for $1,800 and it sold in a day. Sure, it's a Ritchey and a nice bike but after it's been rode hard and in so-so shape, it was wiped down and slapped up on eBay. It had the Radavist name associated with it so likely that helped for the immediate sale. I thought, certainly "if he put his rarity up for that much, I can too when mine looks like this". Fourth, did you see this guy who attempted to sell his beat up 'ole Portage for $2,200? It didn't sell but he did pull it down for whatever reason so maybe it did offline? Maybe not. But it didn't hurt as a comp for my pricing comparison. So, knowing where we are in this world of inflation, knowing that Portage bicycles are a slightly rare breed, the condition and the size (which we know that extremely large or small frame size is a niche market and fit is key so those people are looking for a very specific bicycle) but most importantly I know that on eBay I have a world market. Yes, it's a pain. Yes, problems can come up. Yes, it's not to "mi familia" C&V forum folks but to some on eBay, that price is nothing. To others, like you, it's insanity. People will pay handsomely for scarcity, quality and something that is done so they don't have to think about it. And that's what this person paid for. It's economics 101, right?

So, I have to say, the title of this thread is correct, stand up, price your product accordingly to a modern, world market and be willing to pay the painful price of 12% to eBay, which is $219 I paid those jackals to help me sell my Portage for all you out there bad at math. So, I net $1,606, plus the $200 for boxing and shipping (which I'll need every penny). I love selling at a discount, or even giving away, things to the C&V group but we are a, shall we say, thrifty, bunch and most figure they'll wait it out, year after year, until they can find whatever it is they want at a rock bargain price. But, some are out there that will just pay, have what they want and it's over. Oh, and the individual who purchased it in North Carolina actually contacted me directly a few years ago when I posted another Portage for sale. He's been lusting for one since and this was the magic size along with his birth year grail. Plus, as he said, "They don’t turn up often, and when they do they’re usually either in horrible shape." Ta-da! Buy it Now engaged.

So, I'm not going to get into the appraisal holy wars since we are all smart enough to do our own research on what makes sense for our sale but I figured I'd at least add to the conversation with the impetus for the original conversation plus give some backstory for anyone who was curious. Hope it helps round out the discussion!

Good luck with your sales!

Last edited by The Thin Man; 06-28-22 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 06-27-22, 11:43 PM
  #102  
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I should clarify that I do think you should put your item up for the maximum you think you can get, like the above poster with the portage, and I’m happy for you if you get it. I just think I draw the line at saying it is this communities job to influence a market of (imo) overpriced bikes.
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Old 06-28-22, 01:04 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by polymorphself View Post

In my opinion, as hobbyists who really care about this thing and are not looking to just totally milk it for money, it’s our job to offer fair prices for the community to keep this hobby accessible.
Interesting perspective; I like your opinion

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Old 06-28-22, 04:05 AM
  #104  
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Maybe we’ll collectively form a new narrative for the Raleigh Portage. Until then... for every $1,000 outlier, it seems there is a sub $500 offset. Here’s one from 3 months ago.

Raleigh Portage touring bike - $275


As many have noted, lots of variables. If you’re a true believer, there is probably a noob poster in the valuations forum who may unwittingly agree to sell the subject Portage for $500. We’ve since learned some enterprising forum member could surely double their investment in no time.

Last edited by plonz; 06-28-22 at 04:27 AM.
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Old 06-28-22, 04:44 AM
  #105  
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@The Thin Man’s selling of the Portage is confirmation of my gut response when someone asks, “What’s it worth?” It’s worth whatever one buyer is willing to pay. That’s why even sold prices on eBay don’t necessarily reflect the market. These are vintage bicycles we’re talking about, not loaves of bread.
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Old 06-28-22, 06:19 AM
  #106  
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Yep

I thought of The Thin Man right away, as he sold a 1985 Raleigh Racing USA Competition for $1000 when my near mint one, with very clean 3x9 Ultegra and NOS DA/Open Pro wheels has languished at $450, to the point where I gave up. He gave me some advice: (sell in Portland, among other things.).

He has a knack, has found the points to make, buttons to push, and buyers for whom money is different than mine.

I’ll drink another beer or three in homage to TTM, but wait until after I ride, because, like many in C&V, it’s a quicker, cheaper buzz, and above all, I’m cheap.

Until then, based on two sales, I will consider 2.25 x everyone else’s price to be the Thin Man Variable. Always account for the Variable.

Last edited by bamboobike4; 06-28-22 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 06-28-22, 06:30 AM
  #107  
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The Thin Man Thanks for chiming in, sir. Very interesting to hear your perspective. nlerner above mentions that value is "whatever one buyer is willing to pay" which is the absolute truth of the matter. My entire point of here has been to express that there is evidence out there that certain bicycles apparently have some level of value in some corner of the market which - however obscene it may seem to some of us - should be presented as a potential market for folks asking for appraisals because maybe they're interested in making that effort.

I've never watched an episode of The Antiques Roadshow where the appraiser said "if you wander out on the street here or take it to a pawn shop you'll probably get a few hundred bucks" and forget to mention the estimated price at auction which would be several times more than that at least.

-Gregory
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Old 06-28-22, 06:35 AM
  #108  
seypat
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Giving some hope to the Aerowind owners out there.
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Old 06-28-22, 06:40 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by bamboobike4 View Post
Until then, based on two sales, I will consider 2.25 x everyone else’s price to be the Thin Man Variable. Always account for the Variable.
Again, I said I've had "Raleigh Portage" saved in my eBay search for several years and have seen numerous examples (probably about 6-8) sell for $1,000 or more - that accounts for at least half of the complete bicycles that have sold on eBay during that time. However, that's actually 2.5x the HIGH figure given in the initial thread until I posted the recent sale example. $1,000+ is not an outlier, it's a norm for folks willing to sell on eBay and should certainly be something considered by those offering appraisals because selling on eBay is also a pretty normal thing to do these days.

I said I watch the market and that's why I took the time to respond in both of the Portage appraisal threads that have come up in question here. I've been waiting for a 25" frame example to come up in my size at a time when I had the funds and space available but it hasn't happened yet...

-Gregory

Last edited by Kilroy1988; 06-28-22 at 07:01 AM.
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Old 06-28-22, 06:53 AM
  #110  
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Two things…
Politics and religion.
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Old 06-28-22, 06:53 AM
  #111  
nlerner
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 View Post
I said I watch the market and that's why I took the time to respond in both of the Portage appraisal threads that have come up in question here. I've been waiting for a 25" frame example to come up in my size at a time when I had the funds and space available but it hasn't happened yet...

-Gregory
I facilitated one that size for @rhm about 10 years back. I believe it was an eBay sale with local pick-up only, which ended up to be a consignment store on Long Island. I grabbed it on the way to riding with Rudi.

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Old 06-28-22, 06:56 AM
  #112  
Kilroy1988 
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
I facilitated one that size for @rhm about 10 years back. I believe it was an eBay sale with local pick-up only, which ended up to be a consignment store on Long Island. I grabbed it on the way to riding with Rudi.
A groovy setup! Honestly, based on some of the actual evidence of how well they ride provided in snippets throughout this thread I'm beginning to question whether I should pay for one these days! My tastes have refined quite a bit over the past few years since I started looking...

-Gregory
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Old 06-28-22, 07:41 AM
  #113  
jethin
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
Two things…
Politics and religion.
And old dudes discussing old bikes, apparently.
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Old 06-28-22, 09:10 AM
  #114  
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Good for the seller and the buyer, they both got what they were looking for. Value is based on wants and needs. The seller of the bike had a very nice example of the Portage and the buyer recognized this and wanted, needed this bike. They both are satisfied with the transaction.
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Old 06-28-22, 09:30 AM
  #115  
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I should mention that I do have a 1986' Portage 25" example. I also will mention that I was on the look out for one for some time and I did find one in Oregon several years ago. The listing was on Craigslist and the seller is the same seller of the bike just sold. He was very helpful with the process and had it packed up and sent out promptly.

I acquired exactly what I was looking for and was very happy with the price and the transaction.
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Old 06-28-22, 09:31 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 View Post
Again, I said I've had "Raleigh Portage" saved in my eBay search for several years and have seen numerous examples (probably about 6-8) sell for $1,000 or more - that accounts for at least half of the complete bicycles that have sold on eBay during that time. However, that's actually 2.5x the HIGH figure given in the initial thread until I posted the recent sale example. $1,000+ is not an outlier, it's a norm for folks willing to sell on eBay and should certainly be something considered by those offering appraisals because selling on eBay is also a pretty normal thing to do these days.

I said I watch the market and that's why I took the time to respond in both of the Portage appraisal threads that have come up in question here. I've been waiting for a 25" frame example to come up in my size at a time when I had the funds and space available but it hasn't happened yet...

-Gregory
25" frames will be in short supply. that written, tall guys are cheap.
"funds and space available"
Sequester some money for when the unicorn surfaces.
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Old 06-28-22, 09:38 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Giving some hope to the Aerowind owners out there.
...the commercial alone, on the Youtube, ensures this bicycle's place in history as collectible.

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Old 06-28-22, 09:43 AM
  #118  
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Damn it, now I want a Portage.
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Old 06-28-22, 09:43 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
Two things…
Politics and religion.
Two better things...

Stuck seatpost and death fork.
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Old 06-28-22, 09:48 AM
  #120  
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I agree, tall guys have a harder time finding what they are looking for and that being said, I have to be patience and good timing to find what I am looking for.
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Old 06-28-22, 10:20 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 View Post
How about the first and only proper 650b touring rig produced by Raleigh that only show up in good condition on eBay 1-2 times per year during a period when classic 650b bicycles are all the rage? Not enough for you? Well, that's why the people willing to sell on eBay get the big bucks, I guess!
First off, classic 650b bikes are not 'all the rage'. A small group within a small group of the cycling community likes them. If that drives prices up, cool, but lets not go crazy with claims here and make it seem like 650b is actually a big popular trend in all of cycling as a hobby or sport.
Secondly, It appears many just arent impressed with a contract built nameless tubeset touring bike that was built for a quirky wheel size. Those who are impressed are apparently very willing to show how impressed they are. But most dont value that. Hence the responses. Used product valuations are a mix of knowing what something is worth in various markets as well as what individuals would pay for the item. Its up to whoever is asking to evaluate the responses and measure out which applies to their situation.

I would hate to meet up with you on a craigslist transaction.
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Old 06-28-22, 10:43 AM
  #122  
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Now that a Raleigh Portage is worth $1825 to someone....

....let's discuss
an $85/hour minimum wage.
a $2000 Schwinn Stingray.
a $30M Ferrari.
any house in Anaheim.
sailboats.
Pete Rose in the HOF.
Cleveland's QB issues.
Why the Professor never hit on Mary Ann.
How creepy was Lia kissing Luke.
The proper way to load a dishwasher.
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Old 06-28-22, 10:47 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
Two better things...

Stuck seatpost and death fork.
That death fork looks bent.
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Old 06-28-22, 10:56 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
First off, classic 650b bikes are not 'all the rage'. A small group within a small group of the cycling community likes them. If that drives prices up, cool, but lets not go crazy with claims here and make it seem like 650b is actually a big popular trend in all of cycling as a hobby or sport.
Secondly, It appears many just arent impressed with a contract built nameless tubeset touring bike that was built for a quirky wheel size. Those who are impressed are apparently very willing to show how impressed they are. But most dont value that. Hence the responses. Used product valuations are a mix of knowing what something is worth in various markets as well as what individuals would pay for the item. Its up to whoever is asking to evaluate the responses and measure out which applies to their situation.

I would hate to meet up with you on a craigslist transaction.
Wait a minute, aren't you the guy that wrecked the "1000 words, no text" thread with the first text?

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Old 06-28-22, 10:56 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by bamboobike4 View Post
....let's discuss
an $85/hour minimum wage.
a $2000 Schwinn Stingray.
a $30M Ferrari.
any house in Anaheim.
sailboats.
Pete Rose in the HOF.
Cleveland's QB issues.
Why the Professor never hit on Mary Ann.
How creepy was Lia kissing Luke.
The proper way to load a dishwasher.

Ah, don't forget, which is the best Motor Oil for My car, truck motorcycle

Is using nitrogen in my tires the best way to get faster.....
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