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Please Stop Being So Cheap!

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Please Stop Being So Cheap!

Old 06-28-22, 10:57 AM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by noobinsf View Post
That death fork looks bent.
...I straightened the fork on a Portage once, over at the bike co-op. It was too good to throw away, and it looked within the limits of repair. I think we sold it cheap, though, given that history.
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Old 06-28-22, 11:11 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by Erzulis Boat View Post
Wait a minute, aren't you the guy that wrecked the "1000 words, no text" thread with the first text?

Not sure what that has to do with my post you quoted, but yeah I responded in that 1000 words thread. It was a picture of a wheel packaged up. That isnt, to me, a 1000 word picture so I said as much.
Still not sure why you bring it up.
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Old 06-28-22, 11:13 AM
  #128  
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Opportunity for someone to cash in.

​​​​​​https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...9-500b41127c1d
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Old 06-28-22, 11:16 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
@The Thin Manís selling of the Portage is confirmation of my gut response when someone asks, ďWhatís it worth?Ē Itís worth whatever one buyer is willing to pay. Thatís why even sold prices on eBay donít necessarily reflect the market. These are vintage bicycles weíre talking about, not loaves of bread.
Exactly. And let us not forget the sage words of Bo Diddley and how location factors in:
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Old 06-28-22, 11:18 AM
  #130  
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Is "it's worth as much as a Portage" the new "fork's bent?'
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Old 06-28-22, 11:23 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by BFisher View Post
Exactly. And let us not forget the sage words of Bo Diddley and how location factors in:
What about Ray's response during this inquiry?

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Old 06-28-22, 11:31 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Opportunity for someone to cash in.

​​​​​​https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...9-500b41127c1d
$550 seems a little overpriced.
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Old 06-28-22, 12:02 PM
  #133  
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At $550 plus shipping there's more than enough meat on the bone to prove the point.
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Old 06-28-22, 12:16 PM
  #134  
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In Tampa I couldn't sell a 'Portage' for $400 if my life depended on it.
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Old 06-28-22, 12:25 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Opportunity for someone to cash in.

​​​​​​https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...9-500b41127c1d
...oooooh, that's one of the titanium ones !!!
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Old 06-28-22, 12:52 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I would hate to meet up with you on a craigslist transaction.
Sir,

Throughout this entire thread I have not once insinuated that those who I disagree with, or whose responses I do not appreciate as being adequate to the purpose, are in any way lacking in character or less deserving of my general respect. I have engaged in hundreds of online debates ranging from lively to vehement, and I have also had the good fortune of meeting hundreds of individuals in person whose acquaintance I first made via the internet, some of whom were those I had disagreed with quite adamantly at times. Never based upon such an open-ended and civil discussion as this one have I assumed to judge the quality of another person's character, and experience shows that it would be a folly to do so. I have literally traveled across the world to live and work with individuals whom I first established relations with on forums such as this, and upon meeting in person it has always and unequivocally been the case that the person standing in front of me was a much deeper, more complex creature than what could ever be reflected in their choice of words and perceived tone as put down upon a keyboard.

Despite the fact that I am genuinely interested in addressing and considering the points you made in your post above, the fact that you decided to end it with a personal insult leaves me without a doubt in my mind that your remarks are not worth the time it would take to answer earnestly.

Good day to you.

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Old 06-28-22, 12:57 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 View Post
Sir,

Throughout this entire thread I have not once insinuated that those who I disagree with, or whose responses I do not appreciate as being adequate to the purpose, are in any way lacking in character or less deserving of my general respect.
You called forum frequenters cheap and then implied that they (we) are lazy for not posting an ebay price. And you really don't think you're the one who came in hot on this one?
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Old 06-28-22, 01:02 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by noobinsf View Post
You called forum frequenters cheap and then implied that they (we) are lazy for not posting an ebay price. And you really don't think you're the one who came in hot on this one?
Calling out people for being cheap and not providing well-considered responses to a request has nothing to do with their personality or character. For all I know they could be sitting behind their screen typing up carefree responses and simply not agree with my perspective, and if they aren't interested in changing their ways then that's got nothing to do with me. It doesn't mean I can't point out what I perceive to be an issue without calling their character into question.

I spent the last ten years working as a quality supervisor in a fast-paced produce industry where my job was to point out problems (mostly) created by my colleagues, often causing considerable consequences. It had nothing to do with them as people and we were all friends at the end of the day and learned the necessity of self-awareness and an ability to reflect upon our actions and judgments of one another. I guess that's just too adult of a thing to expect on an internet forum.

If you haven't noticed, a number of individuals here have chosen to take issue with my perspective and think I am dead wrong. That doesn't bother me one bit and until the moment they choose to make it a personal matter, I will not take it personally.

-Gregory
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Old 06-28-22, 01:09 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 View Post
Throughout this entire thread I have not once insinuated that those who I disagree with, or whose responses I do not appreciate as being adequate to the purpose, are in any way lacking in character or less deserving of my general respect.

Good day to you.
You may not say it was insulting, but its pretty impossible to say it was the opposite. It certainly wasnt supportive or complimentary. You came in hot and crashed hard, and now you are claiming you stuck the landing.

You managed to create a 6 page thread based on a single ebay transaction, even though it was mentioned multiple times that the transaction was an outlier. Based on this and more, yeah I think you would be difficult to buy from so I said as much. That analysis, like my c&v valuations, may be off.
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Old 06-28-22, 01:14 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
You may not say it was insulting, but its pretty impossible to say it was the opposite. It certainly wasnt supportive or complimentary. You came in hot and crashed hard, and now you are claiming you stuck the landing.
Does every post need to be supportive or complimentary? Since when is it that constructive criticism isn't a valid form of communication? I provided the most recent eBay transaction as an example and backed it up with my personal knowledge of approximately 50% of all Raleigh Portages that have sold on eBay in the past few years going for at least $1,000 - as I have tracked the auctions/advertisements myself for some time. I said as much multiple times already, and another member also brought up their experience selling a Portage for $1,000 without even advertising it!

I don't have a landing to stick. Everyone can disagree with me and that doesn't matter one bit. If I'm wrong according to the majority so be it. I'm glad to see that numerous members here also shared my general concerns about the low-ball valuations often given in that sub-forum and agree with my sentiment. That doesn't make me any more right or them right either. That's just our take on the situation and this is where it's been expressed.

I'm just voicing my opinion, and if I don't take the time to figure out how to magically post something critical without calling the actions of others into question then I apologize for my failure. I don't know how to do that.

Personally, I found most of the content in this thread to be worth reflecting upon and I will also change my way of presenting valuations in the appraisal forum in the future due to the constructive feedback I've received.

-Gregory

Last edited by Kilroy1988; 06-28-22 at 01:19 PM. Reason: Edited slightly just as Seypat got his post quote in below!
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Old 06-28-22, 01:17 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 View Post
Does every post need to be supportive or complimentary? Since when is it that constructive criticism isn't a valid form of communication? I provided the most recent eBay transaction as an example and backed it up with my personal knowledge of approximately 50% of all Raleigh Portages that have sold on eBay in the past few years going for at least $1,000 - as I have tracked the auctions/advertisements myself for some time. I said as much multiple times already, and another member also brought up their experience selling a Portage for $1,000 without even advertising it!

I don't have a landing to stick. Everyone can disagree with me and that doesn't matter one bit. If I'm wrong according to the majority so be it. I'm glad to see that numerous members here also shared my general concerns about the low-ball valuations often given in that sub-forum and agree with my sentiment. That doesn't make them right either and that also doesn't really matter.

I'm just voicing my opinion, and if I don't take the time to figure out how to magically post something critical without calling the actions of others into question then I apologize for my failure. I don't know how to do that.

-Gregory
At least the Appraisals forums can/will die a slow death now. It will squarely be on your shoulders to keep it going. Good luck.
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Old 06-28-22, 01:20 PM
  #142  
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Here's one that needs your intervention. Contact the seller and set him straight.

https://offerup.com/item/detail/519866268
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Old 06-28-22, 01:22 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 View Post
Calling out people for being cheap and not providing well-considered responses to a request has nothing to do with their personality or character.
-Gregory
Leaving out an ebay high-flyer price does not make a response ill-considered; many posters are bringing years/decades of experience, either as industry insiders, buyer/sellers, etc. And swooping in with an ebay price doesn't make you a hero. It's just another data point. You didn't magically provide someone a bag of groceries or pay their rent.

Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 View Post
I spent the last ten years working as a quality supervisor in a fast-paced produce industry where my job was to point out problems (mostly) created by my colleagues, often causing considerable consequences. It had nothing to do with them as people and we were all friends at the end of the day and learned the necessity of self-awareness and an ability to reflect upon our actions and judgments of one another. I guess that's just too adult of a thing to expect on an internet forum.
Understood, but maybe the impulse to point out problems is a bit overdeveloped. Folks come here to blow off steam and enjoy a hobby, and they bring their voluminous experience with them. None of them are paid, none of them are beholden to a weighty social responsibility to provide a "proper estimate," and in the case of this forum, none of them maliciously try to mislead anyone. Just ease up, and try to appreciate it rather than impose quality control. Many of us with big boy jobs and big boy responsibilities get enough of that day in, day out already.
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Old 06-28-22, 01:31 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by noobinsf View Post
Leaving out an ebay high-flyer price does not make a response ill-considered; many posters are bringing years/decades of experience, either as industry insiders, buyer/sellers, etc. And swooping in with an ebay price doesn't make you a hero. It's just another data point. You didn't magically provide someone a bag of groceries or pay their rent...

Understood, but maybe the impulse to point out problems is a bit overdeveloped. Folks come here to blow off steam and enjoy a hobby, and they bring their voluminous experience with them. None of them are paid, none of them are beholden to a weighty social responsibility to provide a "proper estimate," and in the case of this forum, none of them maliciously try to mislead anyone. Just ease up, and try to appreciate it rather than impose quality control. Many of us with big boy jobs and big boy responsibilities get enough of that day in, day out already.
While I entirely appreciate what you're saying, I believe that I am and should be completely welcome to post my thoughts about such a matter here without either a) causing others to feel as if I am personally questioning their character or motives and b) feel as though my opinion will cause others to question me in such a way. If there are specific rules on Bike Forums disallowing me from expressing my opinion that both generally and in specific situations such as the one cited in the initial post, there appears to be a trend towards providing low appraisals that might in fact cause uninformed askers to lose an opportunity to make money, then I apologize for bringing the matter up. Otherwise, I don't see how having this conversation should be considered unreasonable.

If you are (or anyone else is) personally too tired after a day's work to think or care about such things, you are absolutely free to not give a hoot. I am not your quality supervisor, I'm just another forum member with my own set of thoughts about this matter which I happened to feel like expressing. Anyone who opens this thread, reads through it, responds to any post contained herein, or chooses to ignore or integrate ideas brought up here, is doing so entirely of their free will.

-Gregory
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Old 06-28-22, 01:39 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 View Post
While I entirely appreciate what you're saying, I believe that I am and should be completely welcome to post my thoughts about such a matter here without either a) causing others to feel as if I am personally questioning their character or motives and b) feel as though my opinion will cause others to question me in such a way. If there are specific rules on Bike Forums disallowing me from expressing my opinion that both generally and in specific situations such as the one cited in the initial post, there appears to be a trend towards providing low appraisals that might in fact cause uninformed askers to lose an opportunity to make money, then I apologize for bringing the matter up. Otherwise, I don't see how having this conversation should be considered unreasonable.

If you are (or anyone else is) personally too tired after a day's work to think or care about such things, you are absolutely free to not give a hoot. I am not your quality supervisor, I'm just another forum member with my own set of thoughts about this matter which I happened to feel like expressing. Anyone who opens this thread, reads through it, responds to any post contained herein, or chooses to ignore or integrate ideas brought up here, is doing so entirely of their free will.

-Gregory
You're not breaking any rules. You're just momentarily sucking the fun out of it. That in itself is a considerable social consequence.

[hangs up]
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Old 06-28-22, 01:44 PM
  #146  
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...for frame of reference purposes, here is a link to the Valuations Thread on Old Roads.com. In comparison, we probably do OK here.
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Old 06-28-22, 01:47 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by noobinsf View Post
You're not breaking any rules. You're just momentarily sucking the fun out of it. That in itself is a considerable social consequence.

[hangs up]
Cheers, you're welcome to think so!

It's a consequence I'm willing to bear if even a few people pause to consider what sort of answer they would hope to get were they to ask for a valuation of an object of which they knew little about. I don't think there's anything "fun" about stopping to think about the monetary value of an object for the sake of someone else - it's doing work for free and those asking are typically hoping for responses that will help them determine how much real money to ask for something. It might be something they're buying or selling for fun, or perhaps out of necessity. Either way they deserve to know the full spectrum of value associated with the object and the qualifying factors that may lead to their expectation of one price or another. If only one person responds to their request for an appraisal, then I would hope it includes all of that information. If it doesn't then yes, I think it's a half-hearted appraisal and those offering it should reconsider why they're responding at all.

-Gregory
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Old 06-28-22, 01:51 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
....for frame of reference purposes, here is a link to the Valuations Thread on Old Roads.com. In comparison, we probably do OK here.
My eyes hurt just trying to read the text on the screen in there. Goodness, gracious me!

-Gregory
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Old 06-28-22, 02:01 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 View Post
Does every post need to be supportive or complimentary?
Of course they dont all need to be supportive or complimentary. Me saying 'well it for sure wasnt supportive or complimentary' is a way of saying 'you came off aggressive and angry and you took it out on others over and over again, in spite of reasoned responses'.
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Old 06-28-22, 02:01 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 View Post
While I entirely appreciate what you're saying, I believe that I am and should be completely welcome to post my thoughts about such a matter here without either a) causing others to feel as if I am personally questioning their character or motives and b) feel as though...
To be fair, you can't actually *cause* anyone to have feelings. It's also impossible to stop people from having feelings, even if you don't appreciate them.

We all do things, and people have feelings about them. It's part of what makes us human.

Perhaps if the response isn't what you expected, then there is something to be learned. I personally steer clear of using thread titles that suggest that other people are doing something wrong.

Commanding people to do what you think is right won't work out well in many cases, no matter how right we think we are.
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