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Crashed - who screwed up?

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Crashed - who screwed up?

Old 09-07-21, 02:24 PM
  #1  
philbob57
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Crashed - who screwed up?

I was tooling along on the Green Bay Trail in Winnetka (Illinois) yesterday at maybe 12-13 MPH. Coming up on a bench, the rider ahead of me moved to the right and slowed down. I moved left. I expected the rider was stopping, but rather hung a U-turn without signaling and without looking back. The rider saw me and panicked but did not stop. I panicked and braked, but we collided and both of us went down.

I got road rash, but my bike was fine. I had to do first aid because I'm on a blood thinner, and blood was flowing, but the first aid was effective. I also lost a hearing aid, which is annoying, but I'm insured against loss - one of the benefits of a Costco HA.

The other rider kept saying, 'You didn't say 'On your left'!'

Very few people around here give any warning at all. I'm usually one of them. I'd bet a lot the 2 guys who passed this rider 200 yards ahead of me didn't give any warning, because they didn't give me warning. I know the rider didn't signal or look back before turning.

Obviously I'd be better off if I had trusted the other rider and/or my assumptions less than I did, but how much of a beef do I have against a rider who apparently assumed it's OK to do a U-turn on a MUP without checking the environment?

TIA.
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Old 09-07-21, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by philbob57 View Post
...but how much of a beef do I have against a rider who apparently assumed it's OK to do a U-turn on a MUP without checking the environment?
I think you need to brush up on your rules of the road. The vehicle being overtaken has right of way. You have no one to blame but yourself.
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Old 09-07-21, 02:31 PM
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I'd say 90% their fault, 10% your fault. Unless there is evidence to the contrary, I assume everyone that I pass is a complete moron and announce my passing.
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Old 09-07-21, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by philbob57 View Post
I was tooling along on the Green Bay Trail in Winnetka (Illinois) yesterday at maybe 12-13 MPH. Coming up on a bench, the rider ahead of me moved to the right and slowed down. I moved left. I expected the rider was stopping, but rather hung a U-turn without signaling and without looking back. The rider saw me and panicked but did not stop. I panicked and braked, but we collided and both of us went down.

I got road rash, but my bike was fine. I had to do first aid because I'm on a blood thinner, and blood was flowing, but the first aid was effective. I also lost a hearing aid, which is annoying, but I'm insured against loss - one of the benefits of a Costco HA.

The other rider kept saying, 'You didn't say 'On your left'!'

Very few people around here give any warning at all. I'm usually one of them. I'd bet a lot the 2 guys who passed this rider 200 yards ahead of me didn't give any warning, because they didn't give me warning. I know the rider didn't signal or look back before turning.

Obviously I'd be better off if I had trusted the other rider and/or my assumptions less than I did, but how much of a beef do I have against a rider who apparently assumed it's OK to do a U-turn on a MUP without checking the environment?

TIA.
The other rider screwed up. Period.
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Old 09-07-21, 02:33 PM
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Other rider's fault. Doing a U-Turn without looking or signalling is a great way to cause a crash.
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Old 09-07-21, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
I think you need to brush up on your rules of the road. The vehicle being overtaken has right of way. You have no one to blame but yourself.
I'm reasonably certain that rule doesn't apply in the case of an unsignalled, unannounced U-turn, especially if the rider doing the U-turn fakes to the right first.
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Old 09-07-21, 02:39 PM
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I am with the rider overtaking is at fault camp, that rule is pretty universal and understood. You should also be in a situation where you are able to stop should something unexpected occurs especially on an MUP. The other rider was an idiot, however.
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Old 09-07-21, 02:42 PM
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Defensive obstruction. Run scores.

Oh, wait...wrong forum.
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Old 09-07-21, 02:55 PM
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I think if I rode on a MUP I would have a bell and use it often. Easy to see how you could collide with a random U turn.
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Old 09-07-21, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
I think you need to brush up on your rules of the road. The vehicle being overtaken has right of way. You have no one to blame but yourself.
Rules of the road also state that u turns are illegal
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Old 09-07-21, 03:03 PM
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The fact that you have to ask "Who screwed up?" suggests that you will not get a definitive answer.
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Old 09-07-21, 03:04 PM
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California Vehicle Code - actual rules of the actual road:
No person in a residence district shall make a U-turn when any other vehicle is approaching from either direction within 200 feet, except at an intersection when the approaching vehicle is controlled by an official traffic control device.”

(Residential district as opposed to a business district where U-turns are generally illegal except at a few defined places.)
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Old 09-07-21, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
The fact that you have to ask "Who screwed up?" suggests that you will not get a definitive answer.
Nonsense! They've already had several definitive (and mutually exclusive) answers!
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Old 09-07-21, 03:07 PM
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Mutually at fault. I agree with assuming most people are morons and you should announce you are overtaking. He was also at fault for not doing a shoulder check to make sure it was clear behind to make his turn. I have seen enough inexperienced runners, walkers and cyclists make U turns on MUPs without checking, I always announce. After all, how much effort does it really take to say “Passing”?
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Old 09-07-21, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Nonsense! They've already had several definitive (and mutually exclusive) answers!
Good point. I should have stated that there will be no unanimous judgment.
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Old 09-07-21, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
Rules of the road also state that u turns are illegal
Not according to the UVC https://iamtraffic.org/wp-content/up...01/UVC2000.pdf
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Old 09-07-21, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Good point. I should have stated that there will be no unanimous judgment.
Not on this site, anyhow.
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Old 09-07-21, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
I think you need to brush up on your rules of the road. The vehicle being overtaken has right of way. You have no one to blame but yourself.
Complete and utter ********. That's why cars have mirrors and signals. And I don't give a damn about any Uniform whatever rules.
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Old 09-07-21, 03:43 PM
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It is a tough situation, but on a MUP if you are coming from behind and someone is slowing down anything can happen.

While the rider making a U-turn was stupid, you really needed to let him know you were there; bell, yell, and/or brake in anticipation of the worst possible outcome.

The rules for MUPs are not the same as vehicles, or bikes, on roadways, and vary by state, county, etc. There is a good chance that your 12/13mph exceeded some local code, and passing without an audible warning, especially when a bicyclist is slowing down in front of you is probably not the smartest thing to do.

John
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Old 09-07-21, 03:51 PM
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I do not see how anyone that was not involved, or was an on hand eye witness, can give testament to who, if not both, were at fault. Even then, often, the parties involved are the not the most reliable for getting accurate information. I am not trying to be critical, I do not know what happened, but perhaps it would be more beneficial to take an honest look at your perspective and see what you could have done in a better, safer manner, rather than look for opinions from others that have no basis in fact. It's all hearsay.
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Old 09-07-21, 03:57 PM
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Green Bay Trail operates on Calvinball rules. I have been hit there. My wife has been hit twice. Populated by superior North Shore types who never say they are sorry. It is never their fault. We finally learned our lesson. Do not ride the Green Bay Trail.
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Old 09-07-21, 04:02 PM
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Regardless of signaling, who moves to the right to turn left or do a u turn . . . ?
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Old 09-07-21, 04:04 PM
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- I think a case can be made that the other rider overtook me by moving into my path without warning.
- Neither of us was able to stop without colliding, so we're both at fault by that standard.
- If we were in cars, the other rider would be at fault in Illinois.
- Speed limit on the MUP is 15 mph, and I guarantee I was below that, because I was experiencing a-fib on the ride, so I was putting out low to moderate effort.
- 'When in Rome, do as Romans do' - that means not announcing oneself. (Usually I do anyway. I wish I had done it before the crash, but I don't remember doing so. I did shout when she turned, but she didn't stop her turn.)

I know eye-witnesses are notoriously wrong, especially for principals in accidents. There is no doubt in my mind that she did not signal, because I look for body language when I'm around other riders. More than that, she admitted not signaling - 'No one ever signals,' she said. I was prepared for her to keep going without stopping, which is why I was over on the left when we collided. It just never occurred to me she'd make a U-turn.

Over-entitlement in Winnetka? Whatever can you mean, unless it's about the village that prohibits bikes from some convenient roads because drivers complained the bikes scare them?

I'm sore physically, as well as being 'sore' at the other rider. I have to go through the process of getting a new hearing aid and living without one until it arrives. Fault is less important than self-protection in the future.

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Old 09-07-21, 04:12 PM
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That really stinks, sorry it happened to you. I have seen riders make sharp turns before. I have also seen people post on here about runners that did a quick u-turn. I generally slow way down when I'm passing someone on a mup. Like you say, it doesn't really matter who is at fault when it comes to recovering from a collision.
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Old 09-07-21, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Actually irt depends on exactly which version of the Uniform Traffic Code applies in whichever state. I have done a few interstate tours where it was necessary to know the UTC in each state, and they do differ. The proposed UTC to which you linked is a proposal, not a legislated act.
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