Pahana

Moulton looks like they just released a new model the Flyte. Does anyone have any info on it? It doesn't look like it comes apart. Their website doesn't list it but it's in the shop at Portapedal. Seems like an updated version of an older model.

tcs

The Flyte came out in the UK last year. It's a modern update on the pre-'space frame' Y-frame design of Dr. Moulton, circa 1980. It does not fold or come apart. FWIW, I think it's quite pretty. That said, it's hardly visionary. Since Dr. Moulton's death, the company seems to be looking backward instead of forwards.

CEBEP

What's the point in 20' wheels if bike doesn't come apart or fold? No, I don't think it will accelerate considerably faster because of 20' wheels.

tcs

To explain that I'd need to start about 1956 with Dr. Moulton's work. 'That the universal agreement has fixed on 70 cm as the proper size for wheels does not in any way prove that this diameter is best. It simply proves that cyclists follow each other like sheep.' Paul De Vivie, Godfather of the derailleur, Father of cycle touring

Schwinnsta

Smaller wheels accelerate faster due to less rotational mass. They also have a smaller turning radius, so more maneuverable. Small wheel bikes take up less space. That said, there are disadvantages too. Bumps are taken harder due to increased striking angle, resulting in reduced comfort and speed.

Jipe

The small wheels is part of the Sir Alex Moulton bike concept together with the very stiff frame and full road suspension.

The only drawback is the reduced choice of high end road tires in ETRTO406 (and almost single choice = Schwalbe Kojak in ETRTO369).

CEBEP

Schwinnsta

Thank you I stand corrected.

Schwinnsta

Full suspension is itself a drawback. It introduces weight and complexity. The primary suspension on bicycles is their tires. I think Moulton accepted that narrow higher inflation tires had higher efficiency. It was true in his day, due to the state of tire technology of the time. So he needed shocks to compensate for the wheels and tires.

That said, I like Moulton bikes. I like the truss design and quality components. There are roads I can ride faster having full suspension. However, most of the time, on a 20-inch diameter, 2-inch wide supple tire I don't need suspension and the bobbing front suspension makes for losses of energy.

tcs

Common error - even the BBC got it wrong in the obit. The late Dr. Alex Moulton, CBE, FREng was not "Sir", but cycle journalist John S. Allen said it best: If Dr. Moulton was never knighted, he should have been.

tcs

Would you say this is only true of bicycles, and if so, why?



Dr. Moulton actually made a series of instrumented tests.

Schwinnsta

He was not a Dr or PHD but was a great engineer and an honorary Dr.

Schwinnsta

Yes, just bicycles because a human supplies the power and human is relatively weak. I would probably want shocks on an ebike because the weight is less of an issue since the battery is pushing it, and taking the losses due to front end to bobbing. Also, I would likely be hitting the bumps faster and harder.

I do prefer shocks for mountain biking.

dezzie

Must say my 1960s moulton speed was way quicker than my standard xootr even on kojaks, as for suspension, the front can be stiffened up somewhat with an inch chopped off the spring replacing that inch with a metal or even wood insert of equal size, the rear is compression and shear so being barely any travel it does not bob and lose as much power as a conventional mtb arrangement.

Jipe

This Moulton Flyte has the latest version of the rear suspension triangle with the bottom bracket being part of the rear triangle what suppress all interactions of the power transmission/chain tension with the rear suspension. It has also a fixed not variable distance between the bottom bracket and rear wheel axle allowing the use of a belt drive (with an IGH of course).

Tee front and rear suspensions are very similar to the one of the Moulton Jubilee.

Its indeed not visionary but its easier and cheaper to build than a space frame and offer similar behavior as a space frame Moulton like the Jubilee for much less money.

Schwinnsta

I have rather overstated my position on shocks. I have a rear stock firm shock on my Brompton and can appreciate its necessity with those small tires and the roads I ride on. On the Zootr I have a Cane Creek Thudbuster ST 30 mm suspension seat post. I regard this as a minimalist approach to suspension. The Zootr also has Big Apples. That is enough suspension for me. If I were to guess, I would say the Zootr is faster than my F frame Moulton or my later Moulton Land Rover. This would be due to front shock bobbing. Perhaps I would like a simple poly insert front shock.

tcs

Fun fact: Alex Moulton was awarded honorary doctorates from three different universities!

Jipe

For the current Moulton space frame models, there are 3 different front spring stiffness that allow users to adapt the front suspension to their taste.

The hardest one has two parts with different stiffness.