Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Indoor & Stationary Cycling Forum
Reload this Page >

Old trainer is just fine

Notices
Indoor & Stationary Cycling Forum From spin to Zwift to Peloton, this forum is dedicated to any and all indoor training on stationary bikes

Old trainer is just fine

Old 02-19-22, 09:46 AM
  #1  
benetga
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
benetga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 110

Bikes: Trek 1.1, Nashbar Carbon105 , Specialized Rockhopper-SS, Aventon Aventure

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Old trainer = K.I.S.S.

I've been using my Kurt Kinetic Road Machine this winter. I bought it I'm guessing about 15yrs ago but never used it much. This is my first zwifting season having just retired. I'm wondering what is the benefit to using a smart trainer? I get a great workout and I control the intensity by shifting gears.
The thing takes a minute to setup and when finished I can hang both the bike and trainer in the garage so the car can be parked. For someone with limited space it's perfect. I can't see a cost benefit to upgrading unless I'm missing something.

Last edited by benetga; 02-19-22 at 12:53 PM.
benetga is offline  
Likes For benetga:
Old 02-19-22, 02:03 PM
  #2  
philbob57
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Chicago North Shore
Posts: 2,061

Bikes: frankenbike based on MKM frame

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 615 Post(s)
Liked 425 Times in 268 Posts
If you continue on Zwift, a smart trainer may have better road feel, because the resistance gets adjusted to road conditions by Zwift. For example, if you have to ride up a hill on your Zwift ride, Zwift will increase the resistance of the smart trainer.

Kurt Kinetic makes a sensor that will upload your stats to Zwift (and to other apps). You can add it to your trainer. See https://www.kurtkinetic.com/inride.

Last edited by philbob57; 02-19-22 at 02:07 PM.
philbob57 is offline  
Old 02-19-22, 03:43 PM
  #3  
benetga
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
benetga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 110

Bikes: Trek 1.1, Nashbar Carbon105 , Specialized Rockhopper-SS, Aventon Aventure

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I can't see how the climbing simulation would make that much of difference I just shift to a taller gear to increase the effort and watage. With my basic setup i have the drafting simulation. So for the money I'll keep what i got. I use ant+ and from what I read this works better then the Kinetic sensor.

I just tought I'd share my thoughts on my inexpensive and beneficial Zwift setup.
benetga is offline  
Likes For benetga:
Old 02-19-22, 05:33 PM
  #4  
dmark 
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: NJ
Posts: 471

Bikes: 68 SS, 72 Fuji Finest, 72 PX-10, 77 Pana Pro 7000, 84 Pinnarello Treviso NR, 84 Trek 520, 88 Project KOM, 90 Trek 750, 91 Trek 930

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Liked 108 Times in 80 Posts
Originally Posted by benetga View Post
I've been using my Kurt Kinetic Road Machine this winter. I bought it I'm guessing about 15yrs ago but never used it much. This is my first zwifting season having just retired. I'm wondering what is the benefit to using a smart trainer? I get a great workout and I control the intensity by shifting gears.
The thing takes a minute to setup and when finished I can hang both the bike and trainer in the garage so the car can be parked. For someone with limited space it's perfect. I can't see a cost benefit to upgrading unless I'm missing something.
That's what I do on a cheap mag trainer. Sometimes while watching a GCN (Global Cycling Network) cycling workout on You Tube.
__________________
Last new bike 1991
dmark is offline  
Old 02-19-22, 08:51 PM
  #5  
La Tortue
Senior Member
 
La Tortue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times in 12 Posts
Ha, ha. And some people think reusable diapers are still the best thing for babies. Go to your nearest LBS and ride a course like Richmond UCI or Harrogate on their demo then do it on your Kinetic even Compare your stats if you can. If you don't get an "ah ha" moment then you are correct. No one needs these stinking smart trainers.
La Tortue is offline  
Likes For La Tortue:
Old 02-19-22, 10:42 PM
  #6  
tempocyclist
Full Member
 
tempocyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Australia
Posts: 437

Bikes: 2002 Trek 5200 (US POSTAL), 2020 Canyon Aeroad SL

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked 324 Times in 165 Posts
Originally Posted by benetga View Post
I can't see how the climbing simulation would make that much of difference I just shift to a taller gear to increase the effort

I used to think the exact same thing, until I bought a Tacx NEO smart trainer...

It's totally up to you and your situation of course and a "classic" trainer can certainly do the job if you simply want a decent workout or training session. A smart trainer gives a whole other level of immersive experience. Syncing on-screen gradient changes to automatic resistance changes really does make a difference to the overall experience. Plus you could use ERG mode for workouts also.

Whether that's worth the upgrade is entirely personal. There are some cheaper model wheel-on smart trainers available now that do a decent job and can still be packed away easily.
tempocyclist is offline  
Old 02-20-22, 05:36 AM
  #7  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,542
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1691 Post(s)
Liked 1,811 Times in 1,150 Posts
Originally Posted by benetga View Post
I've been using my Kurt Kinetic Road Machine this winter. I bought it I'm guessing about 15yrs ago but never used it much. This is my first zwifting season having just retired. I'm wondering what is the benefit to using a smart trainer? I get a great workout and I control the intensity by shifting gears.
The thing takes a minute to setup and when finished I can hang both the bike and trainer in the garage so the car can be parked. For someone with limited space it's perfect. I can't see a cost benefit to upgrading unless I'm missing something.
A few things:-

1. Accurate power reading. You are likely to be over or under-estimating your power, probably by a large amount. Although this doesn't affect your workout, it makes any comparison with other Zwift riders completely pointless.
2. Smart trainers dynamically simulate changes in road gradient, which makes the whole experience feel more realistic.
3. They also have ERG mode, which is useful for interval training.

The above factors may or may not be important to you, depending on how you are using Zwift. If you are just riding along enjoying the virtual scenery then none of the above matters. But if you are racing in Zwift events, or using workout mode, or simply want a more realistic road feel then a Smart trainer is a major upgrade.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 02-20-22, 08:05 AM
  #8  
benetga
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
benetga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 110

Bikes: Trek 1.1, Nashbar Carbon105 , Specialized Rockhopper-SS, Aventon Aventure

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanks for your replies. So it looks like I'll be shopping for a KIckr Snap.
benetga is offline  
Old 02-20-22, 02:34 PM
  #9  
spelger
Senior Member
 
spelger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 1,502

Bikes: yes, i have one

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 737 Post(s)
Liked 738 Times in 435 Posts
Check out Craigslist. From time to time I see used smart wheel off trainers for good deals. A bit expensive this one that I just found but probably worth talking down...

https://reno.craigslist.org/bop/d/re...442358113.html
spelger is online now  
Old 02-20-22, 04:11 PM
  #10  
MinnMan
Senior Member
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,033

Bikes: 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3476 Post(s)
Liked 2,432 Times in 1,478 Posts
Adding to what people said, I also use the same trainer - Kurt Kinetic Roadhmachine - maybe 10 years old. I know it's not as good as a smart trainer, but it works for me.

Some years ago I added the inRide sensor. It cost maybe $50, and it gives accurate power data when calibrated (and calibration is easy). It allows you to participate in zwift with some assurance that your numbers are right and it allows you to measure your progress accurately.

Later, I started using my Favero Assioma power meter pedals. Before I switched over, I compared them to the inRide pretty carefully and the inRide was spot on - at a fraction of the cost.

If you can't justify the cost of a smart trainer, it's difficult not to justify the cost of an inRide - it's so cheap and easy..
MinnMan is offline  
Likes For MinnMan:
Old 02-22-22, 12:16 PM
  #11  
gthomson
Senior Member
 
gthomson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Great White North
Posts: 964

Bikes: 2013 Cannondale Caad 8, 2010 Opus Fidelio, 1985 Peugeot UO14, 1999 Peugeot Dune, Sakai Select, L'Avantage, 1971 Gitane Apache Standard

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 433 Post(s)
Liked 298 Times in 212 Posts
I started my indoor training like you did with a hand me down Cyclops fluid trainer and I bought a speed & cadence sensor cheap on Amazon. Thought, maybe I can get into this Zwift thing and burn a few calories over the winter instead of waiting for spring. I thought it was pretty good stuff so when the opportunity to buy a colleagues Elite smart trainer for a great price came up, I jumped on it (literally). I don't regret the decision 4.5 years later and it made a big difference in the Zwifting experience in general.

I am OK with the wheel on trainer which will save you some money, if that's of interest to you. It simulates up to 8% gradient (which kicks my butt going up Alpe De Zwift), ANT connection, relatively quiet and I have an extra road bike which I keep hooked up to the trainer so no hassle to run it.
gthomson is offline  
Old 02-22-22, 12:26 PM
  #12  
blacknbluebikes 
Senior Member
 
blacknbluebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 962

Bikes: two blacks, a blue and a white.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 318 Post(s)
Liked 507 Times in 253 Posts
This is somewhat a "Di2" conversation in disguise.
blacknbluebikes is offline  
Old 02-22-22, 03:11 PM
  #13  
sdmc530
Heft On Wheels
 
sdmc530's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 3,124

Bikes: Specialized,Cannondale,Argon 18

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 886 Post(s)
Liked 560 Times in 346 Posts
Get the inride...its fine. don't let the price tag put you under for a high end trainer. I too used the old school trainer for a few years before upgrading to a smart trainer. NOTHING wrong with a electric smart dumb trainer for Zwift. Ride on for fitness and enjoy the work outs.

Smart trainers are awesome but not necessary. You can always upshift for hills or use them for interval hits, or cadence drills. there are very effective training work arounds.
sdmc530 is offline  
Old 02-22-22, 05:01 PM
  #14  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,542
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1691 Post(s)
Liked 1,811 Times in 1,150 Posts
Originally Posted by sdmc530 View Post

Smart trainers are awesome but not necessary.
That applies to pretty much every high-end "thing" I can think of. So it just depends whether or not you want the "awesome" part.
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 02-22-22, 05:07 PM
  #15  
sdmc530
Heft On Wheels
 
sdmc530's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 3,124

Bikes: Specialized,Cannondale,Argon 18

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 886 Post(s)
Liked 560 Times in 346 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
That applies to pretty much every high-end "thing" I can think of. So it just depends whether or not you want the "awesome" part.

spot on.....
sdmc530 is offline  
Old 02-22-22, 05:10 PM
  #16  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,729

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2890 Post(s)
Liked 2,913 Times in 1,339 Posts
Originally Posted by tempocyclist View Post
I used to think the exact same thing, until I bought a Tacx NEO smart trainer...

It's totally up to you and your situation of course and a "classic" trainer can certainly do the job if you simply want a decent workout or training session. A smart trainer gives a whole other level of immersive experience. Syncing on-screen gradient changes to automatic resistance changes really does make a difference to the overall experience. Plus you could use ERG mode for workouts also.

Whether that's worth the upgrade is entirely personal. There are some cheaper model wheel-on smart trainers available now that do a decent job and can still be packed away easily.
For me, the ERG function has been a game changer for my workouts. No cheating, no ducking out early. I too was a doubter, and now I am a believer.
caloso is offline  
Likes For caloso:
Old 02-22-22, 05:10 PM
  #17  
Ed Wiser
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 353
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times in 71 Posts
Left behind dumb trainers when the smart trainer came out. Big difference I ride a lot indoors due to my wifeís health. I am now using a Kickr bike.
Trainers that are not controlled by the app you. Are using just do not provide the same resistance that a small trainer can put out. I use Rouvy and Zwift. Rouvy will put you on the real life roads with grades up to 25 % an a smart trainer can give you that level of resistance.
A dumb trainer is 20 year tech and if you still have one hanging around and havenít used it for years the reason why was because it wasnít challenging enough and you got bored. With all the new cycling appís you donít get bored.
Ed Wiser is offline  
Old 02-22-22, 05:22 PM
  #18  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 11,280

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6178 Post(s)
Liked 6,536 Times in 3,346 Posts
Originally Posted by benetga View Post
Thanks for your replies. So it looks like I'll be shopping for a KIckr Snap.
I started out like you, on an old 'dumb' trainer, using Zpower on Zwift, and shifting gears to make my effort mimic the gradient. I did that through the Smoke Season of 2020 here in NorCal, through the end of the year. It works, as you know, and you don't NEED more than that. BUT, at the end of 2020 I got a Kickr Snap, and it makes a BIG difference! Much more engaging, and instead of shifting gears to create resistance when you reach the hills, you shift to counter the resistance, just like on the road. This makes it a lot more 'road like'. Other benefits include being able to join Zwift races; Erg mode for structured workouts; real power numbers.

Speaking of 'real power numbers, you may be dismayed by how much lower your numbers are when measured by a real power meter instead of estimated by Zpower. I found it hard to beat some PRs on Zwift segments that I'd set when using Zpower, even though I'm fitter and faster now than I was then.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Old 02-22-22, 05:25 PM
  #19  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 11,280

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6178 Post(s)
Liked 6,536 Times in 3,346 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
For me, the ERG function has been a game changer for my workouts. No cheating, no ducking out early. I too was a doubter, and now I am a believer.
Another member often says "Erg mode is merciless". Yeah, that's the point.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Likes For genejockey:
Old 02-22-22, 05:38 PM
  #20  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,729

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2890 Post(s)
Liked 2,913 Times in 1,339 Posts
Merciless is exactly right.
caloso is offline  
Old 02-22-22, 05:45 PM
  #21  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,542
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1691 Post(s)
Liked 1,811 Times in 1,150 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
For me, the ERG function has been a game changer for my workouts. No cheating, no ducking out early. I too was a doubter, and now I am a believer.
The mode of truth!
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 02-22-22, 05:48 PM
  #22  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 11,280

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6178 Post(s)
Liked 6,536 Times in 3,346 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Merciless is exactly right.
It's especially bad the first time you experience it, if you set the FTP number for the workout based on a Ramp Test done using Zpower. Ask me how I know.

EDIT: Zpower gave me an FTP of 320. Ramp Test on a Smart trainer in Erg mode? 256.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Old 02-22-22, 06:16 PM
  #23  
benetga
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
benetga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 110

Bikes: Trek 1.1, Nashbar Carbon105 , Specialized Rockhopper-SS, Aventon Aventure

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Well I thought I'd at least get the InRide sensor until I buy a smart trainer. I'm redoing the basement and might move the trainer from garage to the basement and go with a more permanent setup verses the Kickr. So I Prime the sensor get it in couple days go to calibrate it and NO APP for android. WTF, it's going back. They advertise that the app is available in the Play Store, not there.
benetga is offline  
Old 02-23-22, 09:12 PM
  #24  
MinnMan
Senior Member
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,033

Bikes: 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3476 Post(s)
Liked 2,432 Times in 1,478 Posts
Originally Posted by benetga View Post
Well I thought I'd at least get the InRide sensor until I buy a smart trainer. I'm redoing the basement and might move the trainer from garage to the basement and go with a more permanent setup verses the Kickr. So I Prime the sensor get it in couple days go to calibrate it and NO APP for android. WTF, it's going back. They advertise that the app is available in the Play Store, not there.
They advertise that it works with Android,

https://www.kurtkinetic.com/inride

but the link they post leads nowhere. This may be it

https://m.apkpure.com/kinetic-fit/com.kinetic.fit

But before returning it, I'd contact Kurt Kinetic customer service and find out from them.

Last edited by MinnMan; 02-23-22 at 09:22 PM.
MinnMan is offline  
Old 02-23-22, 09:27 PM
  #25  
philbob57
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Chicago North Shore
Posts: 2,061

Bikes: frankenbike based on MKM frame

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 615 Post(s)
Liked 425 Times in 268 Posts
I opened a problem with Kurt. The explanation is that Google changed the requirements for their play store. The explanation came with a copy of the app that seems to work.
philbob57 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.