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Breaking chain link on some random place

Old 04-28-22, 04:27 AM
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xperiap
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Breaking chain link on some random place

My chain was so dirty that I haven't noticed that there is the master link so I used the old tool I had to remove one pin. After cleaning it, I returned the same pin back in.
The chain is KMC x11 placed on the e-bike and now after some YT videos, I realized that I shouldn't use an old pin.

What are the experiences here regarding this? Should I remove that part and put one more master link?
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Old 04-28-22, 05:38 AM
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Kai Winters
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You're fine and so is the chain.
Some don't want you reusing the "master" link because it doesn't hold as securely when removing/reattaching it.
Using a standard link to remove and reattach has no impact on the strength and safety of the chain at that given link. The only problem that can occur is the pin is not seated quite correctly resulting in a stiff link. If this happens just manipulate the link laterally and vertically until the pin seats and pivots easily/smoothly.
Before the "quick" links this is how everyone removed/installed a chain.
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Old 04-28-22, 05:55 AM
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IMO, the above post is not accurate. It might or might not hold. Do not be surprised if the chain comes off during a ride, reused pins usually do not seat properly. If/when that happens, a lot of other bad things can happen. I have had that happen, but fortunately, I was at slow speed and nothing more was damaged. Get a new chain and a couple of extra quick links for it, then clean and lube it regularly.
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Old 04-28-22, 06:40 AM
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I will probably buy quick link for it and replace the one I opened.. The chain is still ok so I will wait with replacing it.
Since I have marked the pin which I reused I can see that the link is a bit stiffer than others but it looks like there is no way the pin could fall out
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Old 04-28-22, 06:47 AM
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Kai Winters is 100% Incorrect - modern chains (anything intended for more than 6 speeds) have the pin peened when assembled at the factory and removing a pin and reinserting will leave the joint too weak and it WILL eventually fail - maybe in two rides, maybe in two years, but it is absolutely compromised.

Modern multi-speed chains have a special pin (Shimano) or quick link (all others) included when you buy them because you aren't supposed to reuse a pin that's been pushed out.

OP's plan to buy a quick link and use it to replace the link that would have been weakened by reassembly is a good plan.
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Old 04-28-22, 07:18 AM
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I agree, the 11 speed chain is scrap now. I tried to repair the first peened chain I ever encountered, on a friend's bike. We were 50 miles away from a shop when it failed, and it failed twice more before we got there.
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Old 04-28-22, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by xperiap View Post
I will probably buy quick link for it and replace the one I opened.. The chain is still ok so I will wait with replacing it.
Since I have marked the pin which I reused I can see that the link is a bit stiffer than others but it looks like there is no way the pin could fall out
You cannot tell by looking at it. That is kind of like looking at an inner tube that does not hold air, but it likely does not have a hole because I cannot see one. Once you start putting friction on it, it is likely to work it's way out. It is your bike, do with it as you wish.
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Old 04-28-22, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by delbiker1 View Post
You cannot tell by looking at it. That is kind of like looking at an inner tube that does not hold air, but it likely does not have a hole because I cannot see one. Once you start putting friction on it, it is likely to work it's way out. It is your bike, do with it as you wish.
+1, especially on an Ebike. The motor is most likely putting more torque on that chain than most humans will and if it snaps the motor keeps spinning potentially getting the chain wrapped up in your derailleur. If the pin comes loose the link usually has to bend and spread open to come apart and can result in it getting caught in the pulley cage dragging it into your spokes and well you can guess the rest. A worst case scenario of course but a very real possibility Replace the master link ASAP.
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Old 04-28-22, 08:13 AM
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Thanks, I will replace that link with master link. I don't plan to drive it before I do
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Old 04-28-22, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Kai Winters View Post
You're fine and so is the chain.
Some don't want you reusing the "master" link because it doesn't hold as securely when removing/reattaching it.
Using a standard link to remove and reattach has no impact on the strength and safety of the chain at that given link. The only problem that can occur is the pin is not seated quite correctly resulting in a stiff link. If this happens just manipulate the link laterally and vertically until the pin seats and pivots easily/smoothly.
Before the "quick" links this is how everyone removed/installed a chain.
^This is TERRIBLE advice^ Narrow (10, 11, and 12 speed) should NEVER have pins pushed out and then back in to join the chain. There is not one manufacturer that recommends this. The outer plates are so thin now and the the pins are flush, it's not possible to safely replace a pin. I've said this before and I'll say it again...if you don't know for sure that your advice is sound, don't post it. It doesn't sound like you're a professional mechanic...if you are maybe you should consider sales.
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Old 04-28-22, 10:37 AM
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I'm actually surprised he was able to insert a pin after having removed it. Deformed side plates, anyone?
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Old 04-28-22, 10:47 AM
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While everyone says it's terrible to re-use pins on a 11 speed chain, I did and I never had any issues. I got to ride my bike on a day when the bike shops weren't open so I could get another quick link or break-away pin.

Even if I did have an issue, what's it going to do? I've walked my bike home or called for a ride for other issues. Why not for my chain falling off?

Though if you can avoid doing it, I would. It is a tiny and tedious thing to get lined up correctly and not do any damage to the chain. But once done, why not just find out if the nay-sayers were correct. In my case they were wrong. I got four years on that chain with that re-used pin.

Last edited by Iride01; 04-28-22 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 04-28-22, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
While everyone says it's terrible to re-use pins on a 11 speed chain, I did and I never had any issues. I got to ride my bike on a day when the bike shops weren't open so I could get another quick link or break-away pin.

Even if I did have an issue, what's it going to do? I've walked my bike home or called for a ride for other issues. Why not for my chain falling off?
You can certainly do anything you'd like. And unless you're riding in the Gobi desert, you can probably get home after a problem by walking or by calling someone.

People do all kinds of things with their bikes to varying degrees of success. But just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be done as a matter of course.

As an aside, I've only been a member of this group for a short time, but I have noticed a trend: People seem all-consumed about saving money in the weirdest places, and on some of the cheapest things! Grease, oil, cable end caps(!), handlebar tape, chains.

Why are people obsessing about things that are relatively cheap to replace, instead of trying to figure out shortcuts that could cost them more in the long run, and are possibly dangerous to boot?
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Old 04-28-22, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by xperiap View Post
Thanks, I will replace that link with master link. I don't plan to drive it before I do
My only suggestion is to use the word ride instead of drive. Not that it makes any difference, but it gives us a false hope that some degree of pedal use is being employed.

Thanks!

John
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Old 04-28-22, 04:17 PM
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Kai Winters
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Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
^This is TERRIBLE advice^ Narrow (10, 11, and 12 speed) should NEVER have pins pushed out and then back in to join the chain. There is not one manufacturer that recommends this. The outer plates are so thin now and the the pins are flush, it's not possible to safely replace a pin. I've said this before and I'll say it again...if you don't know for sure that your advice is sound, don't post it. It doesn't sound like you're a professional mechanic...if you are maybe you should consider sales.
Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
I'm actually surprised he was able to insert a pin after having removed it. Deformed side plates, anyone?
LOL I've been a wrench since the mid '80's. I've used "fixed" pins on 10-11 speed chains when I had to without a single problem. You do have to know what your doing and use the correct tools.
Gotta love "interweb experts"...meh...I really don't care what anyone does. I'm not riding the bike or working on it...
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Old 04-28-22, 04:26 PM
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Cobra Kai can give bad advice since they are not riding the bike or working on it. I would not recommend to anyone on modern chains to re-use pins and links unless the manufacturer says you should especially on an e-bike unless in some emergency situation. I would also recommend cleaning your chain more often and making sure it is properly lubed and take care of the bike. On the E-bike you are more likely to run through chains and cassettes more often especially with poor maintenance and usage.
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Old 04-28-22, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Kai Winters View Post
LOL I've been a wrench since the mid '80's. I've used "fixed" pins on 10-11 speed chains when I had to without a single problem. You do have to know what your doing and use the correct tools.
Gotta love "interweb experts"...meh...I really don't care what anyone does. I'm not riding the bike or working on it...
LOL you are still wrong. You apparently haven't noticed how the pins have changed since 8 speed days. Hopefully you aren't working on any bikes but your own.If you want to delete your initial post we can clean up the thread.

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Old 04-28-22, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Kai Winters View Post
You're fine and so is the chain.
Some don't want you reusing the "master" link because it doesn't hold as securely when removing/reattaching it.
Using a standard link to remove and reattach has no impact on the strength and safety of the chain at that given link. The only problem that can occur is the pin is not seated quite correctly resulting in a stiff link. If this happens just manipulate the link laterally and vertically until the pin seats and pivots easily/smoothly.
Before the "quick" links this is how everyone removed/installed a chain.
He's not saying he wants to reuse a master link. He's saying he broke the chain by pushing out a pin, and then pushing the pin back in -like we used to do in the (very) old days.

With modern chains (anything higher than 8 speed?), pushing the pin back in to reconnect the chain is not a good idea. OP did read up on it so I won't repeat why, but don't do it. Remove a link so a new master link can be used for that connection.
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Old 04-28-22, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Kai Winters View Post
I've been a wrench since the mid '80's.
Same here.

Last edited by smd4; 04-28-22 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 04-28-22, 05:59 PM
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As others have said, just pushing the pin back in is a bad idea on any modern chain. All modern chains have peened pins which are meant to keep the plates on the pin during the side force that shifting derailment puts on the chain. Without the peened pin, the side plates will likely slip off the pin. The “snap” you hear when removing a modern pin is the peened head breaking off. Often you’ll see little metal rings on chain tools. That the peen that has broken off. See red arrow below.

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Old 04-28-22, 06:04 PM
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Cyc, what brand chain breaker is that? Looks awesome.
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Old 04-28-22, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Even if I did have an issue, what's it going to do?
It might break when you are standing up pedaling hard, putting some sensitive parts of your body onto the top tube, hard. Or you could crash. Or nothing. Wanna bet which? Feeling lucky?
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Old 04-28-22, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
Cyc, what brand chain breaker is that? Looks awesome.
Not Cyc but It is a Topeak.
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Old 04-28-22, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Not Cyc but It is a Topeak.
Thanks veganbikes. Or is that Clark?
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Old 04-28-22, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
Thanks veganbikes. Or is that Clark?
Either or, I ain't picky. So long as we end up in WalleyWorld at the end of all of this : )
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