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making my old Trek more comfy for 60 yr old me

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making my old Trek more comfy for 60 yr old me

Old 05-29-22, 02:09 PM
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Galoot
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making my old Trek more comfy for 60 yr old me

I want to get back to bicycle touring, and the last long tour I did 8 years ago left my hands numb for several months. I had a shop install a raised angled stem, but I still get hand numbness fairly quickly. I'm losing weight and have about 30 lbs more to go, but someone suggested I try a Shockstop stem. Is it even possible to fit such a stem on my old steel bike? I think I need to get the handlebars several inches closer to the seat, also. Thanks for any advice!

Kelly
Gilroy CA
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Old 05-29-22, 02:51 PM
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What kind of bike do you have? Hybrid or mountain bike(flat-straight handlebars) or road/touring bike with drop handlebars?

Have you moved your saddle back and forth horizontally to change your balance on the bike? (examples..saddle all the way forward on its rails puts much more weight on your hands, saddle all the way back on the rails decreases the weight on your hands.

What's the horizontal distance drop from the top of your saddle to the top of your handlebars? (place a yardstick on your saddle and have it run forward over your handlebars..what is the distance between the yardstick and the top of your handlebars?)

What size tires are you running and at what pressure?
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Old 05-29-22, 03:27 PM
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'D'oh! I thought I had mentioned the bike but it completely slipped my mind Oldtimer's disease guess I have a Trek 520, from roughly 1982. Drop bars.

I'm very skeptical about your claim about seat position. A very experienced randonneur rider I work with who regularly does 300+ mile rides all in one go said exactly the opposite, that I need the equivalent of a shorter top tube. And that is obvious to me from riding a mountain bike or beach cruiser--when I am more upright I obviously have far less weight on my hands.

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Old 05-29-22, 04:00 PM
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Also consider thicker/cushier bar tape. I have the same problem at 63. 30 yrs ago I loved the old celo bar tape because it had no padding. Getting old sucks!
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Old 05-29-22, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Galoot View Post
'D'oh! I thought I had mentioned the bike but it completely slipped my mind Oldtimer's disease guess I have a Trek 520, from roughly 1982. Drop bars.
Are the Ramps and hoods part of the bars set parallel to the ground or sloping down?
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Old 05-29-22, 04:13 PM
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Back when I was fitting everyday I had a distance rider come in with the numb hand syndrome. About 20 miles and his hands would go numb. He had been sold a bike with a 100 mm stem and he was reaching to keep control and even moved the saddle forward, but the problem persisted. A change to an 85mm stem and a better fitting or saddle height, and distance and the problem went away. Check the dimensions for the bike compared to your size using the Italian bike fitting parameters. HTH, Smiles, MH

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Old 05-29-22, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by fishboat View Post
What kind of bike do you have? Hybrid or mountain bike(flat-straight handlebars) or road/touring bike with drop handlebars?

Have you moved your saddle back and forth horizontally to change your balance on the bike? (examples..saddle all the way forward on its rails puts much more weight on your hands, saddle all the way back on the rails decreases the weight on your hands.

What's the horizontal distance drop from the top of your saddle to the top of your handlebars? (place a yardstick on your saddle and have it run forward over your handlebars..what is the distance between the yardstick and the top of your handlebars?)

What size tires are you running and at what pressure?
Not what some have found. Moving the seat rearwards changes the angle between your torso and thighs allowing more core muscles to better support your upper body. Or better said- a too far forward seat will not allow your core muscles to better support your upper body, thus your arms have to. We see this fitting "error" routinely, especially with smaller riders who tried the "free" adjustments (often suggested by the shop that sold the bike). Andy
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Old 05-29-22, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Crankycrank View Post
Also consider thicker/cushier bar tape. I have the same problem at 63. 30 yrs ago I loved the old celo bar tape because it had no padding. Getting old sucks!
When I had the new stem installed the shop put padded bar tape. I kid you not, I have sections of pool noodles cut and put over the top flat part of the bars. That certainly helps but I don't want to always be on the top of the bars.
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Old 05-29-22, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk View Post
Back when I was fitting everyday I had a distance rider come in with the numb hand syndrome. About 20 miles and his hands would go numb. He had been sold a bike with a 100 mm stem and he was reaching to keep control and even moved the saddle forward, but the problem persisted. A change toan85mm stem and a better fitting or saddle height, and distance and the problem went away. Check the dimensions for the bike compared to your size using the Italian bike fitting parameters. HTH, Smiles, MH
OK, this makes sense to me. Though I have no idea what the "Italian bike fitting parameters" are and if they actually apply to 60 year old riders. I'll ask around at San Jose bicycle shops.

Nobody seems to know if the shock absorbing stem will fit on my bike...
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Old 05-29-22, 04:43 PM
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Get some of those springy things or rubber ball that people squeeze on to strengthen their grip. I recently started getting a little bit of numbness near the end of a two hour ride and nothing had changed. I got to thinking that maybe I was just loosing muscle in my hands since I'm semi-retired and not doing as much with my hands anymore.

Actually seems to have helped. But it took about three weeks of daily use before I started to notice anything. And a recent 3.5 hour ride was no numbness.

Any of the other things mentioned are good things to try too.
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Old 05-29-22, 04:50 PM
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The shock absorbing stem requires the much newer kind of fork, etc. Unless major changes have been made, your Trek 520 came with a quill stem. You can get adaptors, but I am not sure that would solve your problem.
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Old 05-29-22, 04:53 PM
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You can however get a much taller but less horizontally extended quill stem, which would bring the bars further in.

e.g:



Slamming the saddle forward does put more weight on your arms/wrists. (I just did this on my wife's bike, and test rode it, and it was very clear. I need to undo the change before she gets anywhere near it.)
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Old 05-29-22, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
The shock absorbing stem requires the much newer kind of fork, etc. Unless major changes have been made, your Trek 520 came with a quill stem. You can get adaptors, but I am not sure that would solve your problem.
I already asked the company about adapters--and my suggestion was based on feedback from another 60+ rider who did the 3000 mile Southern Tier ride with no hand numbness.
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Old 05-29-22, 04:58 PM
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The adapter looks like this:




You could then add a Redshift stopshock modern stem to that.
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Old 05-29-22, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Get some of those springy things or rubber ball that people squeeze on to strengthen their grip. I recently started getting a little bit of numbness near the end of a two hour ride and nothing had changed. I got to thinking that maybe I was just loosing muscle in my hands since I'm semi-retired and not doing as much with my hands anymore.

Actually seems to have helped. But it took about three weeks of daily use before I started to notice anything. And a recent 3.5 hour ride was no numbness.

Any of the other things mentioned are good things to try too.
That is just brilliant--and it fits with what my doctor told me, that men lose 10% of their muscle mass each decade after 40. So even my hands have gotten less muscular, and 8 years of gout have made that even worse. Squeezy ball it is!
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Old 05-29-22, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
You can however get a much taller but less horizontally extended quill stem, which would bring the bars further in.

e.g:



Slamming the saddle forward does put more weight on your arms/wrists. (I just did this on my wife's bike, and test rode it, and it was very clear. I need to undo the change before she gets anywhere near it.)
OK, this seems entirely contradictory. A shorter stem reduces the seat-to handlebar distance, and you say that is better for my hands. Moving the *seat* forward also reduces the seat-to-handlebar distance, but you say that is bad for my hands. Explain?
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Old 05-29-22, 05:09 PM
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shorter and / or more upright stem might help

also :

try different gloves

change hand position more frequently


pedal harder / ride hills more - more force on your legs and then less on your hands / arms (lol)

(grin)
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Old 05-29-22, 05:09 PM
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Here is what the Redshift stem looks like. I got my wife the 30 one, so it puts the bars up higher and closer it. She is 61 and has a lot of wrist issues. I tried to take a picture of her bike but the photo was beyond useless.


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Old 05-29-22, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Galoot View Post
OK, this seems entirely contradictory. A shorter stem reduces the seat-to handlebar distance, and you say that is better for my hands. Moving the *seat* forward also reduces the seat-to-handlebar distance, but you say that is bad for my hands. Explain?
It isn't contradictory, but it is counter-intuitive. Just do the experiment. Slam the saddle forward, go for a ride, slam it all the way back, go for another ride. Compare.

I will add it took me by surprise.

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Old 05-29-22, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Galoot View Post
'D'oh! I thought I had mentioned the bike but it completely slipped my mind Oldtimer's disease guess I have a Trek 520, from roughly 1982. Drop bars.

I'm very skeptical about your claim about seat position. A very experienced randonneur rider I work with who regularly does 300+ mile rides all in one go said exactly the opposite, that I need the equivalent of a shorter top tube. And that is obvious to me from riding a mountain bike or beach cruiser--when I am more upright I obviously have far less weight on my hands.
A shorter top tube and sliding the saddle back and forth on a longer top tube bike are two very different things.
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Old 05-29-22, 05:31 PM
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It is a fairly subtle balance issue. If you sit far back, it de-weights the front.
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Old 05-29-22, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Not what some have found. Moving the seat rearwards changes the angle between your torso and thighs allowing more core muscles to better support your upper body. Or better said- a too far forward seat will not allow your core muscles to better support your upper body, thus your arms have to. We see this fitting "error" routinely, especially with smaller riders who tried the "free" adjustments (often suggested by the shop that sold the bike). Andy
Makes perfect sense. If you have appreciable core muscles. While my core muscles may have been appreciable 20-40 years ago..they are less so now. Now days I think of it more from a balancing weight perspective. The OP is 60..hard tellin' where's he's at.
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Old 05-29-22, 05:38 PM
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Galoot, I've been dealing with your same issues. My best solution is bigger tires with less air and a shorter distance from my sit bones to my bar grips. The 1977 Nishiki International in the photo has a tall and short reach [I think 40 mm] stem. That gets my back and arm angles to about 45 degrees from level. It has Conti. Ultra Sport 1-1/4" tires with tubes and I run them at 38# in the front and 58# in the rear carrying 215# total. They give me a relative vibration free ride on my chip-seal roads. I do not have pot holes where I normally ride so I get by with the low pressures. I have also discovered that utilizing my core more takes weight off my hands which helps also. I seldom get into the drops and haven't taped them up.



I also have 1982 Shogan single speed steel bike with the thread-less stem converter and Redshift Kitchen Sink bars. They give a little more height and back sweep. I Installed ReneHerseCycles.com Snoqualmie Pass extra lignt 700cx44mm w/ Conti Cross Tubes 32/47-622 which I run at 30# front and 40# rear.


This bike gives a very smooth ride. No vibration means happy wrists.
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Old 05-29-22, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Galoot View Post
OK, this seems entirely contradictory. A shorter stem reduces the seat-to handlebar distance, and you say that is better for my hands. Moving the *seat* forward also reduces the seat-to-handlebar distance, but you say that is bad for my hands. Explain?
Moving the seat forward is bad for your knees also. You want the knee/pedal relationship to be correct, then bring the bars to you.

By just moving the seat forward you change how your legs pedal, and you also pitch your weight forward putting more weight on the hands.
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Old 05-29-22, 06:36 PM
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I have used a Red Shift shock stop stem. Velo-Orange is just one parts seller that stocks an adapter so it will fit on an old quill-type stem.

I know someone else already posted another similar adapter. The 30 degree Redshift stem will raise the bars and it will provide an effectively short-length stem. Don't get horizontal stem-length confused with stem height. More stem height will raise your bars and result in a more upright position and less weight on the hands. The ideal stem-length will depend on your top-tube length and your torso and arm length.

From my experience with the Red Shift stem, I have to say it definitely made a difference, but why is important and not so clear. Without the stem, I'd get numb hands within an hour. With the stem, I could tour for 12 hours and still not have any pain. However, I believe it was the stem height that made most of the difference, It raised my bars an inch and half, from 2.5" under the seat height to 1" under the seat height. I don't give so much credit to the shock-stop feature, but I can't say for sure since I haven't tested my hypothesis with a similarly tall stem without that feature.

Does your Trek 520 have 27 inch wheels or 700C? When did Trek change to 700's? I think it wasn't until 1986. What tires are you using? Fatter tires at a lower pressure would almost certainly provide more damping than the shock stop stem. You could certainly have both, but the Red Shift stem is somewhat pricey for what it is. If you're willing to spend several hundred dollars to upgrade the Trek 520, you could get the Red Shift Stem, but I'd be sure you also had suitable wheels and tires for the maximum damping. You may be better off changing to a more modern steel frameset where you could fit fat tires, the Red Shift stem without an adapter, and have a taller head tube.

Also, consider ditching the drop bars and getting some swept-back bars. My bike had "North Road" style bars for years, but I dared to try drop bars on a new-to-me bike for a tour back in April. With that Red Shift stem that I mentioned, I had no pain, but I didn't appreciate the leaned-way-forward riding position even when using the top of the bar or the hoods. I've since outfitted a more suitable touring bike with Albatross style bars. I don't have them especially high. They're about seat-height. We'll see how they do on the next tour. I could use a higher stem if I wanted to be bolt upright, but I might lose a significant amount of pedaling power in that position.

Especially if you keep the drop bars, be sure to sit in a position that minimizes the arching of the back and weight on the hands. Rotate the top of your pelvis forward. Push the bottom of your butt back and as you lean forward, make your lower back concave. You should be able to reach forward to the bars and "play the piano." If you can't reach the bars without needing to lean on them to hold you up, your seating position is wrong.
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