Phamilton

DVC45

I have given up clipless pedals about a year ago. I don't miss them. Platform works just fine for me.

KraneXL

One reason this topic is so much repeated is because it is so typically misunderstood. Bike riders so often don't get what clipless pedal are all about.

Thing is, they're probably not necessary for the casual rider who uses his bike just to go to the market. But certainly the pro or enthusiast cyclist that rides for long distance or for many hours can absolutely benefit from having them.

While the debate rages on to whether they're more efficient or not (see out-of-saddle climbing), the one thing they do for sure is take your mind away from foot placement on the pedal. At least that much -- which means a lot over the distance -- is incontrovertible.

RubeRad

This is true! When I ditched clipless, I faced a new dilemma, where to put my feet? But I got over it, and consider it a bonus to be able to move my feet around. The darkside of the fixed-position you get from clipless is, if you can't figure out what the 'perfect' position is, you could hurt yourself from repetitve strain over time. And in order to find/test the perfect cleat positioning, you have to get off the bike and apply a wrench.

Another benefit of typical clipless systems is the shoes have stiff soles and spread the pressure to the entire sole. But this isn't a problem for pinned platforms, which are wide enough to not apply pressure in a small area in the first place, plus your foot naturally moves around a little bit to shift the pressure and keep the circulation going. (This is well covered in the "shoes ruse" article from rivendell)

noglider 

I'm in an unusual situation where the bike is the fastest way to work for me. The subway may beat me sometimes but only by a little bit and not reliably. It has deteriorated in recent years. Plus it's annoyinger than the bike, so the bike is the clear choice for me. Driving a car would take much more time because parking is so difficult. The only faster way would be a taxi or uber, and that's extremely expensive by comparison.

Steely Dan

i'm not a racer, but i commute with clipless pedals (well, combo pedals actually) because i prefer it.

i have no delusions that clipless pedals make me appreciably faster* or more efficient, i simply prefer the sensation of having my foot locked onto the pedal. i just like it better.

other people prefer NOT having their feet locked onto the pedals. and that's 100% perfectly ok too.

this need not be "the great debate". everyone just needs to respect the fact that we all have different preferences and make our own decisions about the equipment we use based on those preferences.




(*) the only time savings clipless might actually help me with is when the little don't walk timer on the traffic light ahead of me starts its count-down "14..... 13..... 12..... 11...." and i jump out of the saddle and start hammering like a crazy mo-fo to catch the green. i LOVE being locked onto the pedals in those situations. i could also probably safely hammer with a good pinned platform and grippy shoes, but since i love riding with clipless pedals anyway, the extra layer of protection of being mechanically locked onto the pedals is a nice peace of mind thing for me. not necessary, but still nice.

RubeRad

On MTB clipless/platforms are both double-edged swords for me. With platforms, I once in a while get bounced off the pedals going through bumpy/rocky sections at speed. But with clipless, I sometimes fall over in technical sections at very low speeds because I can't get my foot out in time. And often, approaching a technical section when clipped in, I'll give up early because the extra risk from being clipped in; but with platforms I'm free to try harder, because if I don't make it, it's easier to put a foot down.

I enjoy looking at videos and magazine photos of professional mountain bikers and checking out their shoes/pedals; I'd say nowadays they're about 50/50 clips/platforms.

Ged117 

I love my platforms for commutes and tours. I tried clipless and with my touchy feet it was a no-go. I've got Shimano Saint platforms on the Voyageur and DMR V12 platforms on my Norco Indie for commutes. As a winter rider, the platform upgrade has been fantastic for keeping my Keen boots on the pedals. For summer or fair weather tour riding, I wear sandals with toe protection and they are comfy and stable all day. It works best for me.

noglider 

The problem of not being able to unclip quickly enough goes away for some of us. I'm very quick in and out, and it hasn't hindered me in an extremely long time.

RubeRad

On the road it's more about remembering than having enough time, and habit develops so it is not a problem for long. But MTB is different; sometimes you run into situations where you need to real quick put a foot down, and you rarely have much advance notice

alan s 

RubeRad

Yes, I forgot about this part of the double-edged clipless sword. I generally have at least one scab on a shin at all times

PaulRivers

P.S. Here's another flats vs clipless experiment I ran across:
https://www.roadbikereview.com/revie...ls-on-the-road

The debate reminds me of the manual transmission vs automatic transmission debates with cars. Some people find extra effort with extra complexity rewarding. They feel more directly connected to the car/bike. But others prefer the simpler and more brainless automatic transmission. I prefer the auto transmission as I just want to get where I'm going with minimum extra work. I like biking, but the less work needed to go biking the better for me. With flats because I feel like I'm a person separate from the bike, I get on the bike to get where I'm going, then I get off it and walk directly inside. With clipless I'm like "well I biked here, so let's take a minute at each end to change shoes, etc".

I do like the improvements that better flat shoes/pedals have made in keeping a solid grip on the pedal. You've probably seen them but Five Ten makes an office-fashion pair of shoes:
https://www.adidasoutdoor.com/five-ten-district-flats-mountain-bike-shoe/FT86.html?dwvar_FT86_color=Black&cgid=fiveten-men-bike-shoes


They make some more casual shoes to:
https://www.adidasoutdoor.com/five-ten-sleuth-mountain-bike-shoe/FT29.html?dwvar_FT29_color=Black&cgid=fiveten-men-bike-shoes


In early 2019 they're adding another style:
https://enduro-mtb.com/en/five-ten-k...oa-sleuth-dlx/

RubeRad

That's an interesting analogy, but really that's more like mechanical shifting vs Di2, or perhaps brifters vs downtube or indexed vs friction.

I have always preferred manual, not necessarily to "feel more directly connected", but to have a significantly simpler/lighter shifting system that saves gas (partly through less weight, but more significantly through making it easier to 'hypermile' by coasting 50+% of the time)

As for 5tens, my wife has a pair and loves them. I'm sure they are great, I know they're very popular among mountain bikers, but I've heard they run narrow, so I'm not going to even bother. (I did hear though that Adidas bought 5ten and used their stealth rubber compound on shoes for some other sport, and they might come in wide, that would be worth investigating)

PaulRivers

Sure, there's multiple reasons one might go with one system vs another.

I would disagree with that opinion. I have to go with a "wide" size to be comfortable in most regular shoes and my five tens that are 1/2 size larger than I usually go are very comfortable for me. I recently had to order 2 pairs of sandals from 2 different brands bought the same size for both - one brand fits my widish feet fine, the other is to narrow.

If you have really wide feet, yeah, they might not be wide enough. My dad does and it's annoying they don't offer "wide" sizes for him. If there's an REI near you I believe they sell five tens you could try in person before buying.

My personal experience is that the freeriders do not run narrow, they run average-to-widish.

RubeRad

Good to know. Yes I do have very wide feet. I was excited to read multiple reviews on Amazon of Keen Newport H2 sandals ("our widest sandal") of guys like me who wear a 10.5 extra wide, and found size 11 to be perfect. I tried 11 and they were so tight they constricted my blood flow and left marks on my skin. I returned them for 12, and although I could get my feet in, and I really wanted to love them, the anatomical footbed was made from a narrower anatomy than mine, and I couldn't wear them for more than half an hour or so without my feet getting sore.

Note searching the adidas website for "stealth" turns up a lot of shoes. They don't seem to offer wide sizes though.

PaulRivers

Ah, yeah, if you have particularly wide feet that is a problem. I believe adidas/five ten sometimes let others use their material for the shoes but I'm not familiar with anything specific.

I know for wide shoes New Balance is usually the way to go. They sell 2E, 4E, 6E wide shoes. But in a quick look through their website I didn't see anything bike-specific.

My dad uses some sort of bike-specific sandals for his clipless to...but I thought they were Keen's so that's probably not helpful...

RubeRad

Yup. New Balance 10.5 4E I can order off the web and they fit perfect.

Phamilton

cyccommute 

It's never been an issue for me. Even with high speed crashes, my feet are out of the pedals before I even think about it. Stalling out while climbing is another place where my feet are out of the pedals before I think about it. The key is to set the pedal tension low.

noglider 

Unlike most people (I think), I put my right foot on second and take it off first. That pedal has the tension set very low. The left one has it a little higher, though it doesn't really need to be. I have had a couple of panic stops when I pulled my feet out vertically rather than twisting them out. So it works when you pull really hard (and the tension is sufficiently low). I didn't even do it consciously.

I've had one near fall and one fall. The near fall was in 1991 when I was new to clipless and had been using toe clips since 1975. I came to a stop and couldn't get out, but I was right next to a dumpster which was shoulder high. I grabbed the dumpster and unclipped. No problem.

The other was in about 2008. I was goofing around on the grass at low speed and came to an incline I couldn't climb in the gear I was in. I fell onto the grass gently and burst out laughing at my clumsiness. My wife thought it was a stunt and asked me why I did it. She didn't know it was an accident.

So again, clipless is not for everyone, but the required skill is achievable for many of us.

I'm not super experienced at riding off road, so on those occasions, I will unclip in anticipating needing to put my foot down. Still, no problem.

jfan

I use clipless for all of my riding. I too like the sensation of being clipped in, and just the comfort of knowing my feet are on the right spot on the pedal. When I ride platforms, my goofy ocd mind goes nuts trying to put my foot in the exact right spot. By the time I get where I'm going, I'm a basket case.

KraneXL

Yep, clipless are my preferred mode of pedaling, but I would never be so bold as to say its 100% a benefit. I've been over terrain (wet clay) where its too unstable even for the second it takes to unclip. Exception # 2. ^^

Too many active forces for the brain to process. Even for a near reflex.

RidingMatthew

@noglider are you right or left handed? I think the Paceline talked about it in one of their podcasts... Pre Michael Hotten and Fat Cyclist's departure. aka when it was good.

noglider 

@RidingMatthew, I'm right handed, but I guess I mount and dismount a bike left-handedly. I think I also start up a flight of stairs with my left foot.