1985 Trek 620 Cirrus build up.
07-21-21, 07:15 PM
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The bars/tape/ koolstop thinline brake pads came in today. I couldn’t wait to put them on.
The new bars were not as large As I expected, but feel nice. Here’s a pic of them with the ones I took off.
The older bars have a deeper more pronounced drop and a little less flare. But the new ones feel much more stable on the hoods which is where I’m at most the time anyway.
I think it gives it a cool look too.
Not awful for my second time wrapping tape, but I hate when I notice something I don’t like. It will pop out at me on almost every ride, and I noticed a weird little bulge next to the hood once I flipped it and finished wrapping them. It will do for now.
The Koolstop thinline I read are supposed to be great pads, so I figured I’d see if they allowed another 1/8” they’d make it worthwhile. Plus they cost next to nothing.
But, They look bigger than the old Campy pads that were in there.
I love the way these brakes look, hopefully, I can get them so I love how they stop.
They have a cool look but if I can’t get them to work I’ll buy the ones that Golden recommended.
They just look cool to me.
Anyway, I’ve been hunting for tires and I hope to have the fenders and maybe a rack by this weekend. C.
but little by little it will get there. I like the look and feel so far.
The new bars were not as large As I expected, but feel nice. Here’s a pic of them with the ones I took off.
The older bars have a deeper more pronounced drop and a little less flare. But the new ones feel much more stable on the hoods which is where I’m at most the time anyway.
I think it gives it a cool look too.
Not awful for my second time wrapping tape, but I hate when I notice something I don’t like. It will pop out at me on almost every ride, and I noticed a weird little bulge next to the hood once I flipped it and finished wrapping them. It will do for now.
The Koolstop thinline I read are supposed to be great pads, so I figured I’d see if they allowed another 1/8” they’d make it worthwhile. Plus they cost next to nothing.
But, They look bigger than the old Campy pads that were in there.
I love the way these brakes look, hopefully, I can get them so I love how they stop.
They have a cool look but if I can’t get them to work I’ll buy the ones that Golden recommended.
They just look cool to me.
Anyway, I’ve been hunting for tires and I hope to have the fenders and maybe a rack by this weekend. C.
but little by little it will get there. I like the look and feel so far.
Last edited by Jasongrace313; 07-21-21 at 07:20 PM.
07-21-21, 07:30 PM
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I just found them online and it says they are from the Campagnolo Record Off Road groupset from the mid 90's, I could take my dremel to the back of the pad to relieve a bit of space, but looking at the space in this fork I'm getting nervous about stuffing a fender in there.
07-21-21, 07:50 PM
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The more I learn about cantilevers the less it looks like a viable option because to get these arms in an upright position the pads would be in the middle of the rim.
07-21-21, 08:00 PM
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Brakes
Hi Jasongrace313
The 620 Cirrus is actually an unofficial 1986 model- It wasn't in the catalog, but just leftover 1985 Trek 620s, painted with a 1986 color and graphic scheme. I think it looks really cool. The 1985 Trek 620 was a "one-off" in terms of design- it was the only year with that geometry and component build and color and everything- and 600 series bikes were discontinued for 1986. I guess the bottom had gone out of the Touring Bike market- having shifted to ATB/MTBs. They built a LOT of 620s and they had a lot left over- so they created the "620 Cirrus" to use up the frames and parts. I don't recall seeing anything particularly odd component wise- the ones I've seen pix of were all either JUST like 85 620s or had swapped parts, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were parts that were anachronistic or just different from the 85 620.
As far as your "fit" issue- the 1985 Trek touring bikes had long top tubes- on top of that, you've got a pretty long stem on there. Check out the geometry on the Vintage Trek site and compare it with any of the sport and racing models for that year- or any of the previous years' tourers: https://www.vintage-trek.com/images/t...rekTouring.pdf
As far as your "brake" issue... It looks like you've got newer brakes on there. Old touring bikes didn't really have a standard width between the canti posts- generally speaking they're set much narrower on older bikes. The brakes themselves were designed to that narrower spacing and some had more adjustment to accommodate the differences. You'll notice you have 2 different styles of cantis on there- that's probably not an accident or a style choice. Newer brakes are designed with a wider distance between posts that's become much more standardized over the years, and generally the front posts will be narrower than the rear- hence the need for different brakes in the front- even with 27s.
The brakes I've personally used- Suntour XC Pro. The brakes I've seen used Shimano XT MC-70, Shimano XT M732. Brakes that are nearly identical to to M732 are the Deore MT60 and MT62. Brakes that did not work for me (surprisingly) XTR M900. Brakes I would strongly suggest- Shimano XT M732 or MT62.
The 85 620 is a great bike- it's got the outrageously long chainstays and it's a relatively light frame. Double butted 531 main frame and CrMo fork and stays. The long stays are great for heel clearance for panniers and have the side effect of mellowing out the road- it's a touring bike. However, that can translate into "flexy" and "sluggish" for those used to tighter and stiffer racing frames. I have both an 85 620 and 85 720- I think my 620 feels lighter, it rides lighter and it's more flexy than my 720. Conversely- the ride of the 620 feels more supple to me.
The 620 Cirrus is actually an unofficial 1986 model- It wasn't in the catalog, but just leftover 1985 Trek 620s, painted with a 1986 color and graphic scheme. I think it looks really cool. The 1985 Trek 620 was a "one-off" in terms of design- it was the only year with that geometry and component build and color and everything- and 600 series bikes were discontinued for 1986. I guess the bottom had gone out of the Touring Bike market- having shifted to ATB/MTBs. They built a LOT of 620s and they had a lot left over- so they created the "620 Cirrus" to use up the frames and parts. I don't recall seeing anything particularly odd component wise- the ones I've seen pix of were all either JUST like 85 620s or had swapped parts, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were parts that were anachronistic or just different from the 85 620.
As far as your "fit" issue- the 1985 Trek touring bikes had long top tubes- on top of that, you've got a pretty long stem on there. Check out the geometry on the Vintage Trek site and compare it with any of the sport and racing models for that year- or any of the previous years' tourers: https://www.vintage-trek.com/images/t...rekTouring.pdf
As far as your "brake" issue... It looks like you've got newer brakes on there. Old touring bikes didn't really have a standard width between the canti posts- generally speaking they're set much narrower on older bikes. The brakes themselves were designed to that narrower spacing and some had more adjustment to accommodate the differences. You'll notice you have 2 different styles of cantis on there- that's probably not an accident or a style choice. Newer brakes are designed with a wider distance between posts that's become much more standardized over the years, and generally the front posts will be narrower than the rear- hence the need for different brakes in the front- even with 27s.
The brakes I've personally used- Suntour XC Pro. The brakes I've seen used Shimano XT MC-70, Shimano XT M732. Brakes that are nearly identical to to M732 are the Deore MT60 and MT62. Brakes that did not work for me (surprisingly) XTR M900. Brakes I would strongly suggest- Shimano XT M732 or MT62.
The 85 620 is a great bike- it's got the outrageously long chainstays and it's a relatively light frame. Double butted 531 main frame and CrMo fork and stays. The long stays are great for heel clearance for panniers and have the side effect of mellowing out the road- it's a touring bike. However, that can translate into "flexy" and "sluggish" for those used to tighter and stiffer racing frames. I have both an 85 620 and 85 720- I think my 620 feels lighter, it rides lighter and it's more flexy than my 720. Conversely- the ride of the 620 feels more supple to me.
07-21-21, 08:43 PM
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The 27's that came with it are beautiful, but tire choices are slim to none.
07-21-21, 10:47 PM
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Kool-Stop Thinlines may be useful. I’ve seen other posters on the forum have success with 27 to 700c conversions as a result of using those pads in the equation.
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07-21-21, 11:04 PM
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Yeah, That's what I thought. But they were actually a little larger than the Campy pads that came off. I broke down and bought some 27's, I just want to ride the bike. No they weren't what I wanted and were more expensive than their 700 counterpart but I can plug and play and figure out what to change as I go.
07-21-21, 11:07 PM
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I just found them online and it says they are from the Campagnolo Record Off Road groupset from the mid 90's, I could take my dremel to the back of the pad to relieve a bit of space, but looking at the space in this fork I'm getting nervous about stuffing a fender in there.
I've got a set of Record OR wide cantilevers that I've been carting around for over 15 years now. I waited almost a year for them to come up on Ebay, and I think I paid like 300 bucks for the pair. The ones on your Trek look like the narrower version, and the Dark Cthonic Gods alone know what they'd sell for now.
I fell in love with them when I had a Rodriguez AL26 tandem with the Records on the front and a seatstay-mounted Deore XT U-brake out back. By no small margin, the best brakes I've ever had on a bike... bombing down Highway 1 from Vandenburg summit to Santa Maria on the Solvang Century, my younger brother on the back, spun out in the 54x12, crying into our ears and passing cars, and then braking from 70 mph down to the stop sign at the bottom of the offramp... no drama, nary a twitch, full pull on the levers and the bike Just. Slowed. Down.
Set up can be tricky, because everything is adjustable with tiny little allen screws, but when they're dialed, they're killer.
--Shannon
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07-21-21, 11:15 PM
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I wouldn't worry about the angle of the canti arms. They are at the mercy of the rim choice as well as how narrow or wide the posts are set (in addition to the height of the posts). The angle is irrelevant to whatever magic formula someone dreams up. Ideally, 80mm post spacing (center to center) would exist, as Shimano et al desired and specified, but that is not the case. The angle from brake pad contact point to cable point, in relation to cable point to cable angle (the cable angle as it travels to the yoke) is what tends to be relevant. To my eyes, having a shallow yoke angle is a decent place to start as vertical movement of the yoke translates to considerable pivot action of the canti arms/brake arm elements. Sheldon Brown has a big breakdown of it on his website, but there is some trial and error. As with other things, there are precise angles and measurements, and there are principles. Since we're dealing with whatever Trek and other canti-model manufacturers created, measurements take a back seat to principles. Let those principles guide you in the quest to solve the braking power equation the best--every manufacturer did it differently, which sucks, but thems the breaks. Thankfully, Trek was good about canti post placement relative to others, and a 700C wheel etc can be easily accommodated.
Regarding long tail or just long form brake pads, manufacturers would swap pad orientations so that the long tails, for front forks where the pads would quickly interfere with the fork blades, faced forward. Koga-Miyatas did this for sure, and it would allow the owner the most room to remove a tire as the brake pads/arms were afforded the most splay angle to create the largest gap for the tire to slip through. Kool Stop thinline pads allow the long tail to remain aft of the post (traditional) as much as possible. Cantis in general are fidgety things, and much of it is case by case in vintage land. There are of course guiding principles, but there's not 100% rigid, set, formula for success. So give yourself some time, experimentation, and slack. I've been given the runaround by my 620's mini-Vs the last week or so, and I know how to set up brakes! I finally have them solved, but it's been a frustrating road that's had me contemplating other braking types...offered by other frames! (aka disc)
Regarding long tail or just long form brake pads, manufacturers would swap pad orientations so that the long tails, for front forks where the pads would quickly interfere with the fork blades, faced forward. Koga-Miyatas did this for sure, and it would allow the owner the most room to remove a tire as the brake pads/arms were afforded the most splay angle to create the largest gap for the tire to slip through. Kool Stop thinline pads allow the long tail to remain aft of the post (traditional) as much as possible. Cantis in general are fidgety things, and much of it is case by case in vintage land. There are of course guiding principles, but there's not 100% rigid, set, formula for success. So give yourself some time, experimentation, and slack. I've been given the runaround by my 620's mini-Vs the last week or so, and I know how to set up brakes! I finally have them solved, but it's been a frustrating road that's had me contemplating other braking types...offered by other frames! (aka disc)
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07-21-21, 11:18 PM
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No! No!, just the back of the new brake pads. I love the brakes, I'm switching back to the 27's I have until I can get everything else dialed in for me on the bike then I'll start the 700 conversion.
07-21-21, 11:27 PM
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I wouldn't worry about the angle of the canti arms. They are at the mercy of the rim choice as well as how narrow or wide the posts are set (in addition to the height of the posts). The angle is irrelevant to whatever magic formula someone dreams up. Ideally, 80mm post spacing (center to center) would exist, as Shimano et al desired and specified, but that is not the case. The angle from brake pad contact point to cable point, in relation to cable point to cable angle (the cable angle as it travels to the yoke) is what tends to be relevant. To my eyes, having a shallow yoke angle is a decent place to start as vertical movement of the yoke translates to considerable pivot action of the canti arms/brake arm elements. Sheldon Brown has a big breakdown of it on his website, but there is some trial and error. As with other things, there are precise angles and measurements, and there are principles. Since we're dealing with whatever Trek and other canti-model manufacturers created, measurements take a back seat to principles. Let those principles guide you in the quest to solve the braking power equation the best--every manufacturer did it differently, which sucks, but thems the breaks. Thankfully, Trek was good about canti post placement relative to others, and a 700C wheel etc can be easily accommodated.
Regarding long tail or just long form brake pads, manufacturers would swap pad orientations so that the long tails, for front forks where the pads would quickly interfere with the fork blades, faced forward. Koga-Miyatas did this for sure, and it would allow the owner the most room to remove a tire as the brake pads/arms were afforded the most splay angle to create the largest gap for the tire to slip through. Kool Stop thinline pads allow the long tail to remain aft of the post (traditional) as much as possible. Cantis in general are fidgety things, and much of it is case by case in vintage land. There are of course guiding principles, but there's not 100% rigid, set, formula for success. So give yourself some time, experimentation, and slack. I've been given the runaround by my 620's mini-Vs the last week or so, and I know how to set up brakes! I finally have them solved, but it's been a frustrating road that's had me contemplating other braking types...offered by other frames! (aka disc)
Regarding long tail or just long form brake pads, manufacturers would swap pad orientations so that the long tails, for front forks where the pads would quickly interfere with the fork blades, faced forward. Koga-Miyatas did this for sure, and it would allow the owner the most room to remove a tire as the brake pads/arms were afforded the most splay angle to create the largest gap for the tire to slip through. Kool Stop thinline pads allow the long tail to remain aft of the post (traditional) as much as possible. Cantis in general are fidgety things, and much of it is case by case in vintage land. There are of course guiding principles, but there's not 100% rigid, set, formula for success. So give yourself some time, experimentation, and slack. I've been given the runaround by my 620's mini-Vs the last week or so, and I know how to set up brakes! I finally have them solved, but it's been a frustrating road that's had me contemplating other braking types...offered by other frames! (aka disc)
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07-21-21, 11:32 PM
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Not a problem. I/we are simply sharing the paths we've traveled before, not only on the Canti Road, but also the Canti And 700C Conversion Road. Even if I said "Nuts to that!" and paid someone to modify the posts on my 620 and went to mini-Vs...and had my own problems (now solved, thankfully, finally). All for the mental quiver.
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07-22-21, 09:46 PM
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Oh, man. Now that I've got it closer to ride ready I believe it's too small for me... And I've already bought a bunch more stuff to go on it. Today with the new bars I put the old wheels on it, to see if I could get the brakes back without having to manuever much like with the 700's. I got the brakes to an acceptable level, took it out, and now I felt cramped in the cockpit?? When I bought it the girl said her Dad was 6 foot, I'm 6 foot. She said it was a large frame, there's an L stamped on the bottom bracket. When I got on it with the super long stem it felt different but not awful, close with some finishing touches needed maybe.
New stem, wider bars (which should theoretically make it "longer" since my arms are further apart lowering the overall reach) Anyway, I rode it for a bit solo and it felt off. I thought maybe I lowered the seat at some point while inspecting it, nope. Hmm. Took the serial number to the internet and sure enough, it is not large at all. The vintage Trek page says it's a 21" frame based on the serial number.
Ha, well, hmm...
New stem, wider bars (which should theoretically make it "longer" since my arms are further apart lowering the overall reach) Anyway, I rode it for a bit solo and it felt off. I thought maybe I lowered the seat at some point while inspecting it, nope. Hmm. Took the serial number to the internet and sure enough, it is not large at all. The vintage Trek page says it's a 21" frame based on the serial number.
Ha, well, hmm...
07-23-21, 01:16 AM
#39
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Ahhhh, I suppose we never knew your height until now. Could have been worse! Could have been Rookie Riddle of Steel at 6'5" and thought not much at all of a 21" 1985 Schwinn World Sport given to him because he, along with a dozen others, helped load some P.O.D.S. for a couple moving across the country (and they couldn't take the Schwinn). I grew that bike considerably, but looking back, it was of course very much too small. How did I ride it effectively??? Oh wait, I was in my late 20s... It took me a while to warm up to the 25"/63.5cm size before fully embracing rolling scaffolding as not only the life for me, but preferring that look. Super tall bikes are hot.
You'd fit closer to a 24" (61cm) Trek, or a 22.5" (57cm). Thankfully Trek made a shed load of 22.5" everything, including 620s, so don't sell all those parts--wait!
For comedic value:
Non-drive side and all!!!
You'd fit closer to a 24" (61cm) Trek, or a 22.5" (57cm). Thankfully Trek made a shed load of 22.5" everything, including 620s, so don't sell all those parts--wait!
For comedic value:
Non-drive side and all!!!
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07-23-21, 09:26 AM
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I feel your pain but,
your new stem, while it may look proper, is rather short. And your seat post is not really over extended. Get yourself a 120 and continue to have fun with your bike while you keep a lookout for a 22.5 or 24. I’m 5’9” and had a 24” that felt perfect riding while a bit tall standing over it. I have long legs. I think top tubes are pretty short for the seat tube length on touring treks.
your new stem, while it may look proper, is rather short. And your seat post is not really over extended. Get yourself a 120 and continue to have fun with your bike while you keep a lookout for a 22.5 or 24. I’m 5’9” and had a 24” that felt perfect riding while a bit tall standing over it. I have long legs. I think top tubes are pretty short for the seat tube length on touring treks.
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07-23-21, 11:42 AM
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At 6 ft you'd generally be firmly in the 23"-25" range. I'm 5'11" with very average proportions and any smaller than a 23" would need a stem swap for me (I don't enjoy an aggressive setup).
That being said, inseam is key. If your photo how you have it setup in post #14 is how you're riding, it looks normal to me. As long as you're able to get the legs extended nearly straight with a comfortable drop to the bars (whatever that means to you), I'd say you're good to go.
That being said, inseam is key. If your photo how you have it setup in post #14 is how you're riding, it looks normal to me. As long as you're able to get the legs extended nearly straight with a comfortable drop to the bars (whatever that means to you), I'd say you're good to go.
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07-23-21, 12:02 PM
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On the bright side, when you get your new stem, you can re wrap your bars and wrap all the way to the reinforced center section😉
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07-23-21, 01:24 PM
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I am going to continue building it. I'll keep an eye out for a frame that fits, and will tweak this to make it useable. This is a road I've travelled before and while I never wanted to revisit it, obviously I didn't learn well enough last time. No big deal, just not the "one" as I'd hoped.
07-23-21, 03:10 PM
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I was wondering about this, and decided to stop short enough to mount my other equipment (handlebar bag mount and quadlock). While looks are valuable to me utility takes priority, I'm excited to rewrap it though. I've only done it a couple times in the past as most of my bikes have been flat bars.
07-23-21, 04:16 PM
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07-23-21, 06:50 PM
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Then again, brakes can be oddly personal. For example, I'm probably one of the few people who doesn't care for dual-pivot sidepulls. The lever effort is just too light. I've got pretty big hands, and I like a bit more squeeze in my brakes than a lot of people seem to prefer. I don't hate 'em, but I'm not much of a fan.
--Shannon
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07-23-21, 08:54 PM
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Without question, they are the best looking brakes I've seen. I dislike the aesthetics of the other brakes but at the end of the day it's all about stopping the bike, I've read many people love these brakes, so I think it's a bit of user error or personal taste. I just want it to work. Even if that means getting some new Paul Components. 
07-23-21, 08:57 PM
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07-23-21, 09:10 PM
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Off topic a bit, but what is this mount for? I have the same one on mine but cant imagine what would mount there.
The little hole in between the chainstays
The little hole in between the chainstays