woodcraft

If someone pulls too long and the pace is dropping, just come around and take the lead.

You could also urge them to go faster so that they tire and pull off....

caloso

10 minutes each, on a two-hour ride? Ain't nobody got time for that.

Carbonfiberboy 

I'm I'm running the line, on my way back I tell every rider to limit their pulls to 3 minutes, shorter is OK if they have to. That's the length of a pro boxing round and IME it's about right for recreational riders. A buddy of mine say pull off every time one passes a milepost.

billridesbikes

It's so situation dependent you have to go by feel.

I've been in brevets or centuries where spontaneous casual little groups form and we might be going 17-18mph on a flat road with no headwind and then I'm happy to takw a long pull when I can maintain that pace on my own 'all day'. I've also been in Fondos and sportives where you're in a fast group and maybe it's windy. Taking a pull might be 300W+ effort to maintain the pace, and in that case I'm pulling for maybe a minute or less.

What I 100% refuse to do is chase folks down after taking a pull. You seem get these guys that as you pull off they shoot though behind you at really high power and wind up 50ft down the road in front of the pack. My dude, I don't know what you think you're doing but I'm not chasing you down, you can hang out in the wind for as long as you like. You don't have to pedal significantly harder to pull, just increase your power a little bit to keep the same speed to keep yourself from flying off the front.

Seattle Forrest

I ride with a bull whip.

cxwrench

Love it. "I don't know what I'm talking about but I'm going to take part anyway". Again Larry...just stop.
As for length of pulls...it totally depends. Depends on the ride and what is 'normal'. On some of our rides we'd take longer pulls (if we could...nobody said anything if you just rolled through) and sometimes we'd try to roll through from the start. If someone we didn't necessarily like got to the front and accelerated we'd just soft pedal and let them ride off into the distance for a while. There is no 'normal' pull.

genejockey 

I don't ride in groups much anymore, but back when I did, it was with a group that started with 8 miles of a double paceline - but not the rotating kind. This one, the two front riders pull out to the left and drift to the back. There wasn't a set length of time, but it seemed like a couple minutes, maximum. After about 10 miles the group split into racers and non-racers, and we non-racers generally did a single line, with people rotating off the front at about the same interval, except for that time one guy really was feeling his oats, put his head down, and pulled all of us into a headwind for almost 8 miles*. That was awesome!

*Larry - North on Foothill, all the way from Loyola to Alpine.

Miles2go

Pulling in a paceline is driven by purpose, so as has been said, it's purpose-dependent. This is true from a recreational paceline, all the way up to professional racing.
I'm not going into all of the many variables but you can certainly ride slow enough that one person could stay on the front forever, or perhaps they are easily the strongest and also happen to be the ride leader, etc.

You're asking on a forum what's the norm, for a paceline *you* ride in. You would know better than us, so I'm guessing it's not a very organized ride. To answer one of your questions, one rider doing a long pull doesn't mean anyone else needs to...unless it was agreed to, etc. In general, the harder the pace, the shorter the pulls, for a group of that size.

Camilo

Isn't it up to the guy in front to go to the side and let the next guy pull? It's not up to the next guy to overtake the puller. I do find it disruptive for someone to race to the front to pull - it usually speeds up the pace. It's very simple to talk about it. If the guy in front is pulling excessively long, just say something like lets' rotate, or lets do shorter pulls and rotate. Maybe they don't get it.

If the puller is obviously more fit and knows what they're doing, I just sit in behind and enjoy the pull - mainly because I'm not often the fittest person and benefit from the draft. But I've been in groups where people didn't discuss this at all and an inesperiened rider will think its necessary or a matter of pride to pull and pull and pull. So they get tired and are off the back and are no longer a "resource" for a turn at puling. I usually try to either discuss it up front "hey, let's do short ~1-2 minute pulls" or if I'm second wheel behind someone I think might be mis-judging the effort, I'l just call out to them (nicely) to rotate off and take a break.

Carbonfiberboy 

It is hard to guess at the correct effort when one comes to the front, especially if the road isn't perfectly flat. Back when I did a lot of this kind of thing, in my 50s and 60s, adding 10 bpm when I was on the front seemed about right. Of course not everyone has HR. One needs to check one's speed, make sure you're holding it about the same as the last puller. Another thing that used to drive me nuts was riders who tried to hold their power steady on the front, which meant that they slowed down in every little wind gust and created chaos down the line. One has to hold the cadence, just hold the cadence. Too many people waste their strength pulling on the hoods. The second and third wheel should also be in the drops, just like the puller.

Where the watts are really high, a rolling paceline is the only way to go. When the front is like being hit with a firehose, a minute is way too long.

billridesbikes

Yes, Its a skill to ride in a group or paceline. These days I leave the HRM at home and go by power.
If a minute is way too long I usually drop out and wait for a slower paced group to come along. I don't want blowup and be the guy on a fancy bike pedaling squares for the last 30 miles. But that's a different thread.

Rides4Beer

This. My solo rides are 20-22 avg, 50+ miles, I'll be 48 this year. Maybe I'm the exception? I dunno.

I've only been riding a few years, so I don't claim to know everything, but I have never been on ride where pull length/time was ever discussed. Average pace, sprint zones, drop/no drop, etc., sure, but never pull length/time.

urbanknight

Organized pacelines aside, every group ride I've been on has had various lengths of pulls based on the fitness and feelings of each rider. That's how riders of various levels can ride at the same pace as each other while still getting a good workout.

Back when I used to do the Montrose Ride, we lowly Cat 4 and Cat 3 riders never took the front. The 1's and 2's (and even the occasional pro) would keep the front rotating amongst themselves while the rest of us hung on for dear life.

AlgarveCycling

On the group rides I regularly join it depends on who is there, nature of the ride etc. The weaker riders may never pull at all and only a few do all the work. I've sat on the front alongside a friend for most of 100km rides but on others just done a 10 min turn.

We don't really have a 'rule' and an expected time. We just do what we feel like. Group rides for us are mainly social so while there is an element of pushing hard, we wait for the slower guys to catch up too. Typical ride is around 100-150km, 1000-1500m elevation at 30-33km/h so fairly social and chatty.

If it is an organised pace line, then we do 1-3min and obviously we are a lot quicker.

Kai Winters

Well I've just checked the official "Club Rides Rule Book" version 26.3 dated 4-20-20, current revision.
It clearly states the first person to complain MUST immediately make it clear to those that are violating pace line pulls doctrine that they have to follow said rules or be constantly reminded they are in violation of said rules until they conform.
It is now your duty as chief complainer to make it known to the miscreants.
Penalties included constant complaints during the ride and a lowering of air pressure in their tires until they conform.

IMO if they are pulling at the pace I want at that time I'm more than happy to sit on their wheel and enjoy the draft. If I want more work load I'll pull out of the line and do the work until I've completed my effort then slip back into their draft.
The only way to really combat this is to state the rides goals before it starts. If someone decides to do what they want the group can move aside and let them ride alone even if it means slowing a bit until a large gap occurs then resume your ride. If they complain simply remind them of the rides states goals.
The last thing I want is to be in a group ride and have to listen to complainers on either side of the line. I'll make it clear I'm there to have fun and ride with like minded people not a "***** fest" and will ride away on my own.

Paul Barnard

I vote for having a conversation with your riding group rather than going off or asking strangers what their norm is. It doesn't matter what our norm is if that isn't acceptable to your group.

Nachoman

The group I ride with has some really fast ex racers and me. So we follow Karl Marx's paceline philosophy :
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".

himespau 

And could be dangerous depending on how/where the overtaking is done. Don't try to overtake a puller just as they decide to pull off if you're not watching their signals and they're pulling off into the exact same place you're trying to overtake them. Sure, they should look before pulling off to the left but...