Notices
Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

Reamers?

Old 01-10-22, 04:34 PM
  #1  
Tandem Tom
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,586

Bikes: 1992 Serotta Colorado II,Co-Motion Speedster, Giant Escape Hybrid, 1977 Schwinn Super Le Tour

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 453 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 112 Times in 85 Posts
Reamers?

As I move forward with my second frame I will be needing to ream the ST. I have been looking at different reamers and wondering about a set of adjustable reamers. My idea is this will allow me to sneak up on the final size. Since I am only na hobbyist I am not sure about going with dedicated sizes.
Tthoughts?
Thanks!
Tandem Tom is offline  
Old 01-10-22, 05:04 PM
  #2  
Andrew R Stewart 
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 17,999

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4171 Post(s)
Liked 3,790 Times in 2,270 Posts
If you're only reaming the seat tube ID and the 27mm "family" is your goal then only one reamer is needed. Straight-Blade Adjustable-Size Reamer, High-Speed Steel, 1-1/16" to 1-3/16" Reamer Diameter | McMaster-Carr

I suspect you can find far cheaper ones that mimic the adjustment range. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Old 01-10-22, 07:34 PM
  #3  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,934

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3571 Post(s)
Liked 3,366 Times in 1,915 Posts
Size "I" adjustable reamer will handle 27.0-30.25mm. Ream before cutting the slot, or the blades can catch in the slot. A helical reamer does not have that problem, but AFAIK, they're only available in fixed sizes.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
adj-reamers.jpg (170.0 KB, 77 views)
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 01-10-22, 09:22 PM
  #4  
Andrew R Stewart 
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 17,999

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4171 Post(s)
Liked 3,790 Times in 2,270 Posts
The I reamer I have, can't remember the brand but it's old, will cut a tad smaller than the stated minimum. I strongly agree with slotting the seat binder AFTER reaming with one of these straight bladed reamers. If one must ream when a slot is present a slight beveling of the slot's inner edges will soften the reamer blades tendency to catch on the edge. Andy (who finally got a Silve spiral 27.2 reamer a few years ago)
__________________
AndrewRStewart
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Likes For Andrew R Stewart:
Old 01-11-22, 05:45 AM
  #5  
dsaul
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 2,258
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 712 Post(s)
Liked 793 Times in 471 Posts
I purchased this reamer https://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.c...&item_id=CT-28 to replace a cheap one that I bought from Amazon. It is far superior to the cheap Amazon reamer, which dulled very quickly.

I also own a Cyclus reamer handle that takes different sized reamers and it is mostly useless, since there is no pilot and the cutting blade is too short. The short blade is easily deflected by weld burn through and it deflects when it hits the top tube weld and then back the other way when it hits the seat stay weld. The result is a slightly "S" shaped 27.2mm seat tube ID that a 27.2 seat tube won't fit into.
dsaul is offline  
Old 01-11-22, 10:39 AM
  #6  
sdodd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 39 Times in 24 Posts
Originally Posted by Tandem Tom
As I move forward with my second frame I will be needing to ream the ST. I have been looking at different reamers and wondering about a set of adjustable reamers. My idea is this will allow me to sneak up on the final size. Since I am only na hobbyist I am not sure about going with dedicated sizes.
Tthoughts?
Thanks!
I think the recommendations here are good. High speed steel will hold up better than just carbon steel. I've used the HSS Chadwick & Trefethen reamers like here: Chadwick & Trefethen Inc. The "I" will get you 27.2 and the "J" will get you 30.9 and 31.6.
After wrestling with adjustable blade reamers for a while I purchased a Silva spiral flute reamer. I don't make enough frames to justify - it was a Christmas present. =)

If you have any interest in carbon blade (less expensive, holds an edge less) reamers I have a new pair of #28 and #29 from Chadwick & Trefethen (Chadwick & Trefethen Inc.). Send me a PM and I would give you a deal. no pressure though - just haven't gotten around to trying to sell yet.
sdodd is offline  
Old 01-11-22, 12:16 PM
  #7  
guy153
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 950
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Liked 261 Times in 212 Posts
I have a high-quality Cyclus reamer for STs of the standard (for me) size and a very inexpensive adjustable reamer like the ones in these pictures that I used for an unusual size (around 32mm). Was probably one of these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284244191...wAAMXQ0pNQ-7YD

or similar. Made in India. Works absolutely fine, although maybe it won't stay sharp for as long, but then I don't use it often. The cutters look like they're made of high-speed steel. Just scooch it round a few times, wind it out half a turn, and repeat until the seatpost fits nicely.
guy153 is offline  
Old 01-11-22, 01:35 PM
  #8  
duanedr 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked 143 Times in 87 Posts
Originally Posted by guy153
I have a high-quality Cyclus reamer for STs of the standard (for me) size and a very inexpensive adjustable reamer like the ones in these pictures that I used for an unusual size (around 32mm). Was probably one of these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284244191...wAAMXQ0pNQ-7YD

or similar. Made in India. Works absolutely fine, although maybe it won't stay sharp for as long, but then I don't use it often. The cutters look like they're made of high-speed steel. Just scooch it round a few times, wind it out half a turn, and repeat until the seatpost fits nicely.
I bought 27.2mm and 31.6mm dedicated reamers that fit a single handle. I almost never use the adjustable one and would let it go for shipping costs. It was used once and I just found it too frustrating. My wife says my super-power is impatience. Direct message me if you want it Tandemtom . If TandemTom doesn't want it, it's available to anyone else for the same deal.
__________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54319503@N05/
https://www.draper-cycles.com
duanedr is offline  
Old 01-11-22, 02:27 PM
  #9  
bulgie 
blahblahblah chrome moly
 
bulgie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,977
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1161 Post(s)
Liked 2,538 Times in 1,065 Posts
Another reason to go with a brand-name for an adjustable is availability of replacement blades. It's probably technically possible to have an adjustable resharpened, but I haven't heard of anyone doing that, probably not cost-efficient.

At one shop I worked where we used Silva spiral reamers, we got them sharpened by the guy Andy at Strawberry recommended. (That guy has since retired but Andy has a new guy who's probably also excellent, I just can't say 'cuz I haven't dealt with him yet.) You can sharpen fixed-size reamers without losing diameter because only the front tapered part of the reamer does any appreciable amount of cutting, and that can be ground back a ways before the reamer has to become a smaller diameter. The Silva reamers are awesome but their handles are too short for my liking, so we made our own with longer ones. We also powered them in the lathe (on super-slow, "back gears"), holding the frame with your hands, which was exciting/scary but I never lost a frame or a limb so all's well!

If you ever want to be able to ream titanium, your reamer must be very sharp. Theoretically the cutting edge geometry should be different too, but I never used any reamers made specially for Ti, just used normal adjustables with sharp blades.

The inside bevel at the slit to allow reaming after slitting is pretty quick'n'easy, 5-second job with a burr on a die grinder, so don't worry too much about the straight-blade reamers catching. I think it's not much of a worry, though reaming before slitting is still advisable when you can arrange it.

Reminder, maybe obvious, but I worked with builders who regularly forgot: no abrasives inside the frame when reaming! If a frame has ever been sandblasted, sand in the top tube will come out into the seat tube through the vent hole and ruin your reamer, so please for the love of god don't blast before all cutting (BB tapping etc.) is done, or you have a hard time getting ALL the sand out. And resist the urge to make the bevel on the slit (for straight-blade reamers) with an abrasive cartridge-roll. On a repair, assume there's sand in the TT, and hold the frame with the TT pointing down while cleaning all rust and grit out of the ST.

A Safe-T-Kleen tank or similar that pumps solvent is great for cleaning the ST. I also got a big strong bottle-brush with a steel shaft long enough to reach all the way to the BB on big frames, came from a brewery supply IIRC. Get a rubberized apron for that job, it's messy. The solvent clean is also good after flex-honing, which we always did after reaming and the customers did notice how nice the seat posts went in, with no scratching. We were wholesaling them so the customers were mostly bike shops, and we got repeat business from shops that were impressed with the fit and finish.

Oh one exception to the No Abrasives rule is if you're going to hone instead of reaming. Note, I do not mean a flex-hone, which cannot replace reaming. The problem is right there in the name, they flex, so they just follow whatever shape the tube is already. Flex-hone only after reaming. But one shop I worked in, instead of reaming, used a big industrial cylinder hone that had rigid/adjustable stones, that did an awesome job on 853 that was air-hardened enough in the HAZ that reaming was impractical (boss said "impossible" but I never tried it.) Honing on that machine was about as fast as reaming, and left the most beautiful bore for the seatpost you ever saw. I'd love to have one, but the machine was the size of a Bridgeport and only did that one thing. We'd have to replace the stones as they wore down, getting about 10 frames per set.

But, back to reamers since that's what 100% of FBs use. I'm sure you know this already but included here for completelness, never back up the reamer. Even if it catches in the slit, you have to power forward. Er, by forward I mean clockwise.

One more tip and I'm done, I promise: those adjusting nuts on the reamer don't need to be super tight. The hardened blades can bite into the nuts if you over-tighten. I saw guys using giant wrenches and really leaning into them, and the nuts were never the same afterward.

Mark B

Last edited by bulgie; 01-11-22 at 02:36 PM.
bulgie is offline  
Likes For bulgie:
Old 01-11-22, 02:53 PM
  #10  
Tandem Tom
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,586

Bikes: 1992 Serotta Colorado II,Co-Motion Speedster, Giant Escape Hybrid, 1977 Schwinn Super Le Tour

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 453 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 112 Times in 85 Posts
Appreciate the education on reamers!!!
So a follow up question. What lubricant do you fellows use? Anything special?
Tandem Tom is offline  
Likes For Tandem Tom:
Old 01-11-22, 03:01 PM
  #11  
dsaul
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 2,258
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 712 Post(s)
Liked 793 Times in 471 Posts
Originally Posted by Tandem Tom
Appreciate the education on reamers!!!
So a follow up question. What lubricant do you fellows use? Anything special?
I just use Oatey thread cutting oil from the plumbing section at the home improvement store.
dsaul is offline  
Old 01-11-22, 05:04 PM
  #12  
guy153
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 950
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Liked 261 Times in 212 Posts
Originally Posted by Tandem Tom
Appreciate the education on reamers!!!
So a follow up question. What lubricant do you fellows use? Anything special?
I just use whatever engine oil I have left over from the car This is probably terrible advice but I figure oil is basically oil.
guy153 is offline  
Old 01-11-22, 06:44 PM
  #13  
duanedr 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked 143 Times in 87 Posts
Originally Posted by bulgie
We'd have to replace the stones as they wore down, getting about 10 frames per set.


Mark B
Wow, that seems impractical but maybe they are cheap enough and the quality of finish high enough that it's not. Thanks!
__________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54319503@N05/
https://www.draper-cycles.com
duanedr is offline  
Old 01-11-22, 09:38 PM
  #14  
bulgie 
blahblahblah chrome moly
 
bulgie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,977
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1161 Post(s)
Liked 2,538 Times in 1,065 Posts
Originally Posted by duanedr
Wow, that seems impractical but maybe they are cheap enough and the quality of finish high enough that it's not. Thanks!
This was at Match, late-'90s. Bossmang Tim Isaac said that 853 was too hard in the HAZ to ream, though I didn't try it. Maybe someone here has reamed 853 and can dispel this rumor?

Tim said that many frames out there with an 853 decal on them actually used something else for the seat tube, for this very reason. Match used "lesser" steel for the HT, to avoid ruining our HT reamer, but the ST was real 853.

So I can't say whether it was worth it or not, but the result was uber-sweet. And the replacement stones are not expensive. I don't remember what they cost (if I ever knew — I was not the buyer), but divided over 10 frames, the cost of the stones was considered negligible. Swapping out the stones only took a minute or so.

Mark B
bulgie is offline  
Likes For bulgie:
Old 01-12-22, 10:32 AM
  #15  
guy153
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 950
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Liked 261 Times in 212 Posts
I've used an 853 HT (they'd run out of 631 ones). But Reynolds HTs don't need reaming-- they're supplied the exact size and you just hope for the best. This suits me as I don't have a 34mm reamer anyway. However I did face it and it seemed to cut all right. I didn't notice it being any different from 631. But you're mostly outside the HAZ there I guess.
guy153 is offline  
Old 01-12-22, 08:46 PM
  #16  
Mark Beaver
semi-retired framebuilder
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 28

Bikes: twenty-three at last count

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 14 Posts
I had built a couple of fillet-brazed 853 frames back in the mid 80’s with 853 seat tubes (externally butted, no less) and couldn’t get a reamer to work. The 27.2 id seat tubes ended up taking 27.0 posts…

Ever since then, anything 853 and fillet brazed in my shop gets a 725 seat tube. But with lugged and silver brazed 853 frames, no problems with 853 seat tubes and reamers, I guess silver braze doesn’t get the steel to the point where it air-hardens. In fact, I reamed the seat tube and cut the binder slot on my latest build literally yesterday - 853 Pro Team and stainless Llewellyn Manorina lugs - and no issues.

Mark Beaver
Tamarack Cycles
halifax, NS, Canada
Mark Beaver is offline  
Likes For Mark Beaver:
Old 01-12-22, 11:48 PM
  #17  
niknak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 839
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Liked 43 Times in 35 Posts
Joe Bringheli sells spiral reamers. They're so much better than adjustable reamers. I think the cost is justified.
niknak is offline  
Old 01-13-22, 02:36 AM
  #18  
guy153
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 950
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Liked 261 Times in 212 Posts
Originally Posted by Mark Beaver
I had built a couple of fillet-brazed 853 frames back in the mid 80’s with 853 seat tubes (externally butted, no less) and couldn’t get a reamer to work. The 27.2 id seat tubes ended up taking 27.0 posts…

Ever since then, anything 853 and fillet brazed in my shop gets a 725 seat tube. But with lugged and silver brazed 853 frames, no problems with 853 seat tubes and reamers, I guess silver braze doesn’t get the steel to the point where it air-hardens. In fact, I reamed the seat tube and cut the binder slot on my latest build literally yesterday - 853 Pro Team and stainless Llewellyn Manorina lugs - and no issues.
Interesting info, thanks! 631 ought to air-harden as well though. The only difference is that with 853 the whole tube is heat-treated. I've never had any trouble reaming externally butted 631 STs after TIG welding.
guy153 is offline  
Old 01-13-22, 08:03 PM
  #19  
bulgie 
blahblahblah chrome moly
 
bulgie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,977
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1161 Post(s)
Liked 2,538 Times in 1,065 Posts
Originally Posted by Mark Beaver
I guess silver braze doesn’t get the steel to the point where it air-hardens.
Yes I think this is correct from what I "know" about 853. The Match frames, that Tim Isaac said couldn't be reamed, were brass-brazed.

Mark B
bulgie is offline  
Likes For bulgie:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.