mattface 

I've had this bike for a long time, it came to me with scratched-up pain and a fair bit of surface rust, and a mishmash of nice, but totally mismatched parts. Over the years I've redone the paint with powdercoat and replica decals and upgraded components where it counted to make it into a basically period-correct looking retro-mod.

The frame is Columbus SL/SP, Headset and bottom bracket are Campy, Stem and bars are Cinelli, Seatpost is DA, Crank is Campy GS, and front derailleur is Suntour, the rear is Shimano 600 Tri-Color. Brakes are Shimano 105 Dual pivot with Diacomp Aero levers. Shifters are DA 9-speed indexed front and older friction rear, but they look like a perfect match. The saddle is a Brooks Professional. Until recently it was running on a mismatched set of tubular rims. The current wheels are DA/Open Pro front, and Ultegra rear with double-butted spokes at both ends.



It's a very nice bike, but a relatively unknown brand. For those who don't know the brand, it's a Spanish Brand that still exists but only imported to the US for a short time. They made the high-end frames for Zeuss and often specced their bikes with Zuess Components. Between the brand and the fact that the vintage road bike market is a bit soft now I expect it is worth more to me than the market value, but I WOULD like to get an idea of what the market value for this bike might be. Thanks so much!

mattface 

Detail of the front hub/wheel


Before the powder coat with rusty chrome fork and evil orange bar tape/red hoods

Drillium Dude 

More pics of the details would help establish a price range, honestly. Can't tell much from the single overall shot.

Not being original paint would matter to some, but I think the PC looks good. I'm assuming the chrome on the fork was to bad to keep? The photo with the original finish appears to show the chrome (on the crown, at least) was in fine shape.

DD

mattface 

Yes, I would have preferred to touch up the chrome, but it was too far gone. Powdercoat color is similar to the original orange flake but brighter and flakier. I didn't powder coat it to increase the value, but to preserve the frame and increase my enjoyment of it. It was let's say "well-loved" by the time I got it and I rode it that way for several years before doing the powder coat.

mattface 

Here are a few more of the bike as I originally found it back in 2007. I kinda wish I still had that saddle and the RD as I'd like to use them on my Holdsworth Professional build

mattface 

These are not exactly glamor shots. The wheels are off, because I'm using them as place-holders on my Holdsworth build actually they may eventually go on the Holdsworth, but anyway here are some detail shots of the components. As you'll see I totally lied about the headset earlier. It's Zues which totally makes sense. Other than the frame and fork it's probably the only original part on there.

mattface 

mattface 

OUCH! Sorry you don't care for my preferred cable routing, but I built it to ride, so I put on my preferred saddle, routed the brake cables how I like them, and replaced the crumbling gum hoods with NOS Diacompe hoods that were available at the time (2007) to fit those brakes. Anyway if I ever DO sell it I would probably sell it with a period-appropriate saddle, and keep the Brooks Professional for myself, and I am aware that most Americans run their brakes the opposite of how I do, but I like my brakes this way. Putting the brakes the right way is the first thing I do whenever I get a bike. This is the first time in three decades of doing it that anyone has said "EW" to my face.

As for the Frankenbikedness, it has ALWAYS been a Frankenbike. As found almost nothing matched, it was very obviously a parts-bin bike, but from a very nice parts bin. One of the first things I changed was swapping out the mismatched brakes with ones that while not period correct are in my opinion better than the originals, and at least match one another. When the DA 6-speed free-hub body started skipping, I replaced it with a NOS 8-speed DA freehub that also fit the hub and then swapped the RD and shifter to make a properly shifting 9-speed indexed system. Until a couple of years ago, I was still running the mismatched Tubular wheelset with that DA hub. When that rim died I cut the hub out for the rim and replaced the wheelset with clinchers. I really should have done that a long time ago as keeping this thing in tubulars was an expensive hobby. The thing about this bike is, even though things have never matched, everything has always worked well together, and only classic bike nerds (like us) would even know the difference. The really nice thing about it was that I was able to get a really nice bike when I didn't have much money, It fit me super well, and rode really nice. I never really considered the resale value before, because I never had any intention to sell it. The only reason I'm considering it now is that I don't have room for 2 vintage race bikes in my apartment, and I'm building up a Holdsworth Professional. When it's done, one of the two is going to have to go. Honestly, both frames are very nice. I'll have to ride them both and decide which one I prefer.

wrk101

I have no doubt the mix of parts work well on this bike. But since this is a valuation forum and not a "does this work?" forum, the mix of parts lower the value/don’t get their value on this bike.

If I came across this bike, I would rebuild with 105 parts, matching, and get as much or more for the bike. Then the mismatched parts would be moved on to a new home. I did this with a Trek once, it had Dura Ace, Campy Record and Suntour Superbe Pro parts. Rebuilt it with 7 speed 105, sold that bike, then found homes for the mixed bits that came on it.

mattface 

Interesting. So you think it's worth MORE with matching mid-range, non-period correct parts than with a mix of high-end parts? Personally, it would not be to me. I see the aesthetic value in things matching, but I'd rather have better parts than matching groups.

I guess it would not be that hard to replace the crank which is worth around $100 with a 600 Tricolor one for half that, and swap the Cyclone front deraillieur with a Tricolor one for another $15. That pretty much resolves most of the mis-matchiness. I'd probably just as soon keep the seatpost for myself and put something less exotic on there, along with a turbo saddle or something similar. I might keep these wheels and put a decent matching set on, heck maybe even with Shimano 600 tricolor hubs.

So assuming this bike looks like that instead of this, how do you think that would affect the market value?

mattface 

Also, if I seem, defensive folks, please know it's because yes, I am thinking about selling this bike, but I don't really WANT to sell it. I've loved this bike from the moment I found it, and though I'm not sure what the market value IS, I'm uncomfortably aware that it is MUCH lower than what I think it ought to be, and certainly less than what I've got in it. I need to sell it to make room, and hopefully to help towards the purchase of a different bike, but this is not a thing I bought to flip. It has been among my favorite bikes for 15 years. Whatever you may think about the saleability of the mix-and-match components or my gross cable routing, I've loved riding it like this for many years. So, when the Holdsworth is done I'm gonna have to make a hard decision. The Holdsworth was my Dad's bike, and he gave it to me because it doesn't fit him anymore, so I'm not much more inclined to sell that one, but with 4 bikes (and my wife has 3 so that makes 7) in a 1000 sq foot apartment I'm already pushing my storage limit and the Holdsworth will make 5. Then there is this other shiny new bike I want to buy this spring, so I've gotta sell at least two to make that happen, and as it turns out I am sentimental about ALL of them. So this is not gonna be easy for me. I DO believe I could be content with just 3 bikes, but thinking about selling this one bums me out.

Drillium Dude 

Sell one of the wife's bikes - problem solved

On the serious side, thanks for providing the detail pics - they show the frame/fork is pretty well built and of high quality. That said, to get the most money out of it, the best approach would be as others have suggested: make it matchy-matchy. While I've no doubt your setup works, and works well for you, buyers are finicky about matching kit when it comes to paying the big bux. Bikes with a mix of parts are much more likely to sell based on the buyer wanting the frame/fork and expecting to toss most or all of the parts into the parts bin to support other projects - and they will go low on their valuation for this very reason. And miss-matched wheels are always going to bring the value down a bit; It's just the way of the world.

That said, you've got some cool stuff on that bike which I'd pull off if I were to sell it. First off, the stem is a very early version of the 1R going by the oval logo and the "Cinelli" (vice the later "flying C") button; I'd imagine the bars are also generally of the same time frame. Also, the Dura-Ace post is a nice, early piece which looks in fine condition, and the Zeus headset (looks to be alloy?) is another fairly uncommon piece. If you sell, at a minimum pull the bar/stem combo and use it on the Holdsworth - those early ones are worth some good money all on their own.

This bike looks great as it is, and if it rides well for you, I'd keep it. But - if you do keep it, replace the brake pads as they look as though they're getting close to the end of their service life.

DD

mattface 

Funny you should say that because one of my wife's bikes is the Trek 614 my mom got for Christmas in 1982. My sister and I also got brand new Treks that Christmas, my dad still rides the one he got for me that year, and the one my sister got now belongs to my daughter who doesn't really ride much. On the phone with my dad last night he was trying to remember what happened to that set of Modolo brakes he thought he had lying around, and we decided he must have put them on the Louison Bobet he sold in 1982 to help fund his Alan purchase. I think it might be safe to say that there is a genetic element in my reluctance to let go of old favorite bikes.

The Zeus headset as I mentioned before, is likely original to the frame. If I were to try to make it as close to original as possible it would probably be a full Zuess 2000 group, but since a few people know Zuess, and even fewer know Razesa, that would not be likely help the value at all on the local market, and almost certainly would cost more to accomplish than the value of the restored bike, but it might be worth doing if I were going to keep it forever or out it in the Razesa museum.

I think it's interesting that you think the wheelset is "mismatched". Given that the rims match and the hub bodies really only differ in the group name screened on them, to me they seem well matched. I've always been very fine with mismatched wheels as long as they look like they go together, and I've also been OK with an extreme aesthetic mismatch if it worked better. I had a red anodized wheel that I used to upgrade 5 different bikes to 9 speed. The most recent set I built for my RB-T has matching Pacenti Brevet rims and Sapim Race spokes, but the front hub is Phil and the rear is Velo Orange. They look fine together. Would I rather have a matching Phil rear? Sure, but not $350 worth. Would I rather have a matching VO front? No, not really. If the front hub on this wheelset being Dura Ace instead of Ultegra really does hurt the market value, I guess that would be an excellent reason for me to keep the wheelset.

Tangent alert!!! Also if you are sensitive to mismatched wheels or NDS shots you might want to avert your eyes!



Ahhhh!!! that's better. Just don't look too close

Also sssshhhhh, yes I know that's a mountain bike rear derailleur. I'm never selling this bike.

jdawginsc 

Ok. My two cents...this one is a part out, or a restore (parts) and keep. To restore parts and sell would likely wash out. These are pretty conservative. I assume keeping the saddle, Cinelli bars/stem for Holdsworth...?

Frame - $300 or more
Crank - $80 or so (if the BB is GS too, add another $40 or so)
Wheels - $150 (are they both Dura Ace)
Shifters - $50
Headset - $45 or so
Seatpost $60 or so

The calipers, FD, RD, levers are not as consequential.

Personally, this is a nice enough bike to keep on the backburner in storage. Just my thoughts.

TiHabanero

Last year I sold my Razesa for 200 bucks. Derailleurs were Cyclone, crank was Superbe, and shifters were Simplex retro. Great riding machine, just not my personal favorite.

jdawginsc 

That surprises me about the frame. They are pretty unusual to see and usually pretty nice frames. Aren't some of them Belgian, or Billato-built or something?

mattface 

Looking at this one that turned up on the bay. It's much worse than mine in every way, basically just a bunch of grungy random obviously wrong parts on a rusty Columbus frame. I'll be watching to see if it sells.

juvela

-----

Razesa a fabricator of fifty-three years duration -

https://www.thespoken.cc/razesa-bicicletas

https://recordandobicicletaszeus.blo...storia_13.html

subject frame may have been imported by Zeus Cyclery Corporation of Rockville Center, New York

latest materials have from them are from the 1986-87 time when they were a stockist for Razesa road framesets, no cycles

at that era the finishes were cromo-velato -



-----

mattface 

Thanks for those great links juvela If I do keep it it would be really nice to outfit it with full Zeus. I really like the Zeus 2000 cranksets with drillium rings.

juvela

-----

note that the chromo-velato framesets shown in the brochure image lack a seat tube w/b mount

so if the one on your example is original to the frame it is slightly later...

brochure is nominally 1986-87 but image may be slightly earlier...

---

btw -

the forum has had a number of discussion threads on this marque

if wished, one could use the search function to bring them up


-----

mattface 

Oh, I'm aware, in fact, I've participated in and even started some of those threads.

wrk101

Yes, based on my experience buying and selling a lot of bikes. I've done it many times. I tend to use parts I have accumulated, so I use left over matching parts, freeing up the more valuable non-matching parts. That Dura Ace seat post is a really good example. Lots of value there, but it doesn't move the needle on the bike's overall value. In my case, I have a pile of 600 and 105 bits too, including wheels.

And while the bike currently has SOME high end parts, not all of them are high end, 105 brake calipers for example.

Max value would be a part out. Takes less time, no additional parts, no consumables. Crankset, DA seat post, DA front wheel might = what the entire bike would sell for. Then the Cinelli stem and bars, frameset, Zeus headset, Dura Ace DT shifters, etc., would all be "profit" (money in excess of what complete bike would bring).

The mismatch goes further, including 105 brake calipers, and Dia Compe brake levers (I think). If you go 600, you would need 600 downtube shift levers, 600 brake levers, crankset and front derailleur as you mentioned, 600 wheels, 600 headset, 600 brake calipers. Thats an expensive list if you have to buy these parts.

If I plan to keep the bike, the decision is different. Sadly, appears only the headset is original. The longer the list of wrong parts is, the more it costs to restore, if restoration is the plan. You can always go "resto-mod" and build it up to your liking, which is basically what you have already done. So no changes at this point. I've done that as well.

Again, this is a "valuation" subforum. If you want to talk about rideability, does this bike work, what do you think about it, thats another section. On my keeper bikes, valuation does not matter, Its all about "does it work?" Wheels don't have to match, components don't have to match, and so on for the bike to work. On a personal bike, I just removed the Campy Nuovo Record RD and replaced it with Cyclone GT. Then added 600 wheels. Not exactly an upgrade, and hurt the value.

So my comments above are all about valuation. And max value would come from a part out.

mattface 

Emotionally, I have a hard time parting out a complete and working bike, especially not one as nice as this one, but logically I've always seen the argument. Tracking the cost of my builds in spreadsheets is helping to keep me down to earth about what things cost to build, and buying used parts even at bargain prices to make this bike "correct would definitely be a losing proposition.

I recently had an epiphany that has helped me come to terms with it. Maybe 10 years ago I sold a bike that I had lovingly built up over the years to get just how I wanted it, and it was objectively a great bike. It was a Fuji Cross with a set of my hand-built 105/Open Sport wheels and mostly 105 and Ultegra components 9sp. Salsa Bell Lap bars, and a Flite saddle. I got around $600 for it which was a decent price for a complete build like that one at the time, but of course not nearly what I had in it. The reason I sold it was because even though I loved it it wasn't getting ridden since I had gotten the Razesa, so I never really regretted selling it, but I DID regret selling the wheels as I have had many uses for them over the years, and I like my hand-built wheels over most used wheelsets I can acquire for ~$200. A year or so ago I saw that bike turn up on craigslist again for less than I sold it for, and from the pictures, I could see it was exactly as I had sold it with the same tires and grip tape so it hadn't actually been ridden much if at all. I was half tempted to buy it back, but I didn't need it then, and I still don't need it now. The thing I realized when thinking about this recently was that if I had parted it out, I likely would have gotten more money out of it, and gotten to keep my wheels, AND the parts would likely have been bought by someone who would really use them. So it would have been a better situation for all involved.

This realization is making me feel better about the idea of keeping these wheels, saddle, seat post, Front Derailleur, and pedals, and selling off the rest of the components to someone who will use them. I would keep the headset with the frame though as I feel they belong together, and hopefully, it would add value to the next buyer.

The Holdsworth is shaping up very nicely, and it's at least a pound lighter than the Razesa in its current build. In trying to keep my quiver down to 3-4 bikes it really makes no sense to have two such similar bikes. It still remains to be seen, but I assume the Holdsworth should fit and ride at least as well as the Razesa as the dimensions are similar. So it will likely be the Holdsworth that stays, but if I decide to keep the Razesa I will have a lot of nice parts to choose from, and can probably drop the weight on it, then sell what's left over.

wrk101

I bought back a bike I had sold earlier to a friend several years ago. He eventually sold it to a used bike shop. They sold it to buyer #2. Eventually it reappeared back on the market, for half of what I originally sold it for. Since my original sale was a friends and family price, I thought it was a super great deal. First generation Dura Ace derailleur set, etc. Lots of juicy parts.

I was going to part it out, as that was where the value was. But first, I offered it back to my friend, at the new, super hot low price I had just paid for it. "Hey, do you want that bike back for xx, what I just paid for it?" He was stoked to get the bike back, so he came and got it.

Wildwood 

YES, to Zeus drillium & components.





If that rusty Razesa on thebay sells for $577 (plus shipping), the buyer is not savvy with used bikes. Seller (in small town MO) is enamored with an under-represented marque.