Frame Identification
11-25-22, 05:12 AM
#1
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Frame Identification
Hiya Folks,
spotted an old frame on Ebay and I've got no idea what it is but it looks quite interesting.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374367117...Bk9SR7aF--aVYQ
It's frame number "0265" (on forks and BB) with "BR" under that on BB.
In my (limited) experience I've never seen a head tube like it:
And here's the BB
Anybody have an idea what it is ?
spotted an old frame on Ebay and I've got no idea what it is but it looks quite interesting.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374367117...Bk9SR7aF--aVYQ
It's frame number "0265" (on forks and BB) with "BR" under that on BB.
In my (limited) experience I've never seen a head tube like it:
And here's the BB
Anybody have an idea what it is ?
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11-25-22, 06:45 AM
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I’m not too sure but it looks very similar to some Hetchins bikes I’ve seen. Someone with more knowledge should be able to help out. That is a very ornate looking frame.
11-25-22, 07:47 AM
#3
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Looking a Google images Hetchins lugs are even more ornate.
Another thing I spotted is the cable fittings at the top of the down tube.
Seems to be too high for a DT shifter, maybe it's for an internal gear rear hub with handlebar mounted changer ?
Another thing I spotted is the cable fittings at the top of the down tube.
Seems to be too high for a DT shifter, maybe it's for an internal gear rear hub with handlebar mounted changer ?
11-25-22, 08:22 AM
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Looks like the frame was built for bar end shifters. They were popular in late fifties and early sixties.
I'd be looking for a former (British?) pro with the initials BR, who liked bar end shifters and was active in the 1965 season.
I'd be looking for a former (British?) pro with the initials BR, who liked bar end shifters and was active in the 1965 season.
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11-25-22, 09:04 AM
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certainly appears British from somewhere between the mid nineteensixties and very early nineteen seventies
one house which did bespokes such as this was Condor
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certainly appears British from somewhere between the mid nineteensixties and very early nineteen seventies
one house which did bespokes such as this was Condor
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11-25-22, 09:56 AM
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It's not a 'standard' Condor I think, could be bespoke though.
I almost bought a 1960 Condor No 1 on Wednesday (outbid in last 10 secs)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-C...p2047675.l2557
I almost bought a 1960 Condor No 1 on Wednesday (outbid in last 10 secs)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-C...p2047675.l2557
11-25-22, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Aardwolf
It's not a 'standard' Condor I think, could be bespoke though.
I almost bought a 1960 Condor No 1 on Wednesday (outbid in last 10 secs)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-C...p2047675.l2557
I almost bought a 1960 Condor No 1 on Wednesday (outbid in last 10 secs)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-C...p2047675.l2557
the only reason mentioned Condor was that they did do bespoke
BICYCLING! magazine did a feature on them BITD and they showed one done for a rock musician decorated with musical notes and instruments
they showed another done for a history professor which had a Battle of Hastings 1066 theme
no wish to assert an identity...mentioned only as a possibility
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lug manufacturers offered blanks so that framebuilders could design and cut their own patterns
in the case of a hand-cut pattern it is possible it might be a "one-off" with no other like it in existence...or it could be a design used by a framebuilder to produce a number of frames...
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Last edited by juvela; 11-25-22 at 11:14 AM. Reason: addition
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11-25-22, 12:45 PM
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headlugs bear some similarity to Gillott "Fleur de Lis" model but also differences, and you'd expect the forkcrown to be equally "fancy" and not this bog-plain Davis or Haden "Cinelli style".
So likely made as an homage to the Fleur de Lis by a custom (bespoke) builder.
If "BR" are owner's initials then that's going to be a real scavenger hunt, but if they are the builder's then might be a little easier...but maybe not.
Here's one pretty bad clue: "...named after Gillott worker Ron Brown"
So likely made as an homage to the Fleur de Lis by a custom (bespoke) builder.
If "BR" are owner's initials then that's going to be a real scavenger hunt, but if they are the builder's then might be a little easier...but maybe not.
Here's one pretty bad clue: "...named after Gillott worker Ron Brown"
Last edited by unworthy1; 11-26-22 at 01:09 PM.
11-25-22, 03:24 PM
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This build would make a fun project. Go for it!
That "hit" to the drive-side bottom bracket shell looks troublesome to me.
Especially since the seller did not provide a proper photo.
One must wonder why it got sand or bead blasted, only to let the surface rust return.
At least take a few minutes to hit it with some rattle can primer!
So it will require another bead blast. (It probably got sand-blasted, judging by some metal removal.)
That "hit" to the drive-side bottom bracket shell looks troublesome to me.
Especially since the seller did not provide a proper photo.
One must wonder why it got sand or bead blasted, only to let the surface rust return.
At least take a few minutes to hit it with some rattle can primer!
So it will require another bead blast. (It probably got sand-blasted, judging by some metal removal.)
11-25-22, 03:30 PM
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This is a find that one shares AFTER it is bought and in hand.
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11-25-22, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by roadcrankr
This build would make a fun project. Go for it!
That "hit" to the drive-side bottom bracket shell looks troublesome to me.
Especially since the seller did not provide a proper photo.
One must wonder why it got sand or bead blasted, only to let the surface rust return.
At least take a few minutes to hit it with some rattle can primer!
So it will require another bead blast. (It probably got sand-blasted, judging by some metal removal.)
That "hit" to the drive-side bottom bracket shell looks troublesome to me.
Especially since the seller did not provide a proper photo.
One must wonder why it got sand or bead blasted, only to let the surface rust return.
At least take a few minutes to hit it with some rattle can primer!
So it will require another bead blast. (It probably got sand-blasted, judging by some metal removal.)
Can't imagine that being life threatening in any way.
11-25-22, 04:59 PM
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Bill Hurlow (who built for Condor) comes to my mind, but no 100% match... worth googling more
Hurlow Main
- Lattz
Hurlow Main
- Lattz
11-26-22, 01:20 PM
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Bill Hurlow popped to mind for me, too, but I decided there was not enough in the OP's example to make it a good match. Hurlow certainly did use a plain full-sloping crown along with very ornate lugs, and some had no headbadge holes (used head decals instead) but...the extremely high quality he generally exhibited is not present in these lugs, IMO.
Of course he built for so many others as contractor, (Holdsworth Shop, Freddie Grubb, Claud Butler, Mal Rees, and Condor) I'm sure he made plenty that were not the gleaming jewels he built under his own brand.
But I wonder if "RB" could have been an apprentice to him, in one of those contact shop deals?
Of course he built for so many others as contractor, (Holdsworth Shop, Freddie Grubb, Claud Butler, Mal Rees, and Condor) I'm sure he made plenty that were not the gleaming jewels he built under his own brand.
But I wonder if "RB" could have been an apprentice to him, in one of those contact shop deals?
