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Wow, getting adverts for CBD oil now

Old 08-02-19, 04:54 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by tyrion
oh, for sure. you can also get mugged at gunpoint in most major cities and ran off the road ala easy rider touring cross country. i wouldn't say any of those things are very high on my list of things to worry about, though.
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Old 08-02-19, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by t_e_r_r_y
oh, for sure. you can also get mugged at gunpoint in most major cities and ran off the road ala easy rider touring cross country. i wouldn't say any of those things are very high on my list of things to worry about, though.
The moral of the story is: drink all the CBD oil in your possession before entering Disney World.
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Old 08-02-19, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by t_e_r_r_y
this made me laugh out loud.

YOU'RE NOT MY DAD!

!
I wasn't trying to be preachy or condone anyone using the stuff. I could honestly care less if a person uses it or not to be honest. We have a bunch of people getting arrested here in SD because they have the oil thinking its not a big deal but here its illegal and will get you a possession charge.

We have this uptake in its use with tourists and pass through that are getting charged with the stuff. Crazy that a 64 year old retired teacher uses it for anxiety and now is charged.

My point is know what you have when traveling just in case
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Old 08-02-19, 06:04 PM
  #29  
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Guess I'm out of it. Thought CBD oil was the latest chain lube.

scott s.
.
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Old 08-02-19, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by sdmc530
I wasn't trying to be preachy or condone anyone using the stuff. I could honestly care less if a person uses it or not to be honest. We have a bunch of people getting arrested here in SD because they have the oil thinking its not a big deal but here its illegal and will get you a possession charge.

We have this uptake in its use with tourists and pass through that are getting charged with the stuff. Crazy that a 64 year old retired teacher uses it for anxiety and now is charged.

My point is know what you have when traveling just in case
it'll teach that teacher a lesson... Next time stow it where the sun don't shine... buttocks.
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Old 08-02-19, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by t_e_r_r_y
just because you're not aware of the studies sure as heck doesn't mean they aren't out there. here's just one of them that came up with a simple google search - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2503660/

here's one more if you want - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4851925/

again, this was just a general, super quick search. i'm sure you can find many more if you're up to it.

the cherry thing made me laugh though, i had to look into that. the study i found said that if you drink cherry juice twice a day for 21 days, it can help with pain. that's kind of a stretch to say it does the same that cbd oil claims to do. however, i did learn how cherry juice is pretty dang good for you in many ways, so i'll be getting me some of that. thanks for the info!
Neither of those are about reduction in inflammation from exercise. So neither is relevant to taking CBD for recovery after exercising.

At least the cherry juice studies I mentioned actually focused on post-exercise recovery.

When I did a Google search before my first post, I stopped looking at links after the third page as none of them were scientific studies and none of the web sites linked to scientific studies. It makes sense that CBD oil would be worth studying for its effects on pain/inflammation reduction post exercise. I've just never seen such studies.

Last edited by guachi; 08-02-19 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 08-02-19, 11:47 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by jon c.
Assuming any of this is effective, I wonder if the CBD cream is more or less effective than the creams with THC.
My impression? It's mostly the self-massage that helps, not the ingredients in any topical analgesic. An exception would be a prescription opiate based time release pain patch.

I've tried both types -- CBD and full spectrum cannabis balms. They're pleasant smelling and feel nice, since the makers use top quality ingredients. But do they actually relieve pain below the skin? Probably not.

When I apply any topical analgesic to places I can reach easily -- my neck and shoulder -- it feels better. But I can't reach my shoulder blade, which aches constantly around pain level 5-7. I can apply topical analgesics using an extension stick, but I can't massage the area. The shoulder blade still aches, zero relief from topical analgesics of any kind.

This week I got a percussion type massager, one of those doodads with a long handle and two knobbies that move more or less like pistons. I've tried it with and without my various topical balms. Zero felt difference. The massager helps the shoulder blade more than simply slathering balms on the skin surface.

I've used dozens of different topical analgesics over the years, mostly for my neck and shoulders (injured twice being hit by cars in 2001 and 2018). A few can provide some short term relief but only for pain very near skin surface level -- usually joints. Menthol, wintergreen, salicylates, resveratrol, lidocaine, arnica, capsaicin every available substance... I've tried it.

Any topical balm with MSM will work better because it helps penetrate the skin. Without a transdermal carrier most balms do zippo. That includes the CBD and THC balms I've tried, which do not contain any transdermal carrier.

I've tried combining the CBD and THC balms with DMSO (a lab grade transdermal carrier, also often marketed as horse liniment, or for other purposes), and with MSM topicals such as Stopain, Oste Bi-Flex, Teds' Pain Cream and others. No perceptible differences.

The maker of Ted's Pain Cream (a neuroscientist and university instructor) started out developing a cannabis based topical balm, but finally decided it didn't work and wasn't feasible to develop until the federal and state governments got out of the way and clarified the legality. So he switched to resveratrol, which was already reputedly effective for moderate chronic pain when taken orally. It's derived from grapes and Japanese knotweed. But their research found it worked better as a topical balm for minor but nagging chronic pain. The theory is that the resveratrol "resets" the nerves that continue to signal pain long after the injury has healed.

I tried Ted's Pain Cream last summer, but it was too soon after my neck and shoulder injury and my pain level was never less than 7 for months. That's beyond what any OTC oral pain med or balm can treat. So my expectations were unrealistic. I plan to try Ted's again because, more than a year after the injury, I still have nagging pain along the shoulder blade. Ted's claims no massage is necessary, so if it works at all it should work on my shoulder.
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Old 08-02-19, 11:52 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
CBD oil has roughly the viscosity of Phil's Tenacious Oil, doesn't it? (Guessing from related oils I saw decades ago,) Has anybody used it on their bike and reported back? Worth the money?
Usually MCT, derived from coconuts. Some use olive oil avocado oil and others, but most use odorless, flavorless MCT. Yep, it's about the consistency of some light lubes. I may try it on my one bike that squeaks a lot. Maybe it'll stop that incessant whining.
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Old 08-03-19, 12:13 AM
  #34  
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BTW, I understand the skepticism. I was extremely skeptical of claims about the health benefits of cannabis. Some of my meatspace and online friends are, or were, stoners, and I just assumed they were trying to justify their fondness for the pots by claiming outrageous miracles.

And some were preposterous. Mostly wishful thinking based on haphazard readings of studies on the PubMed site, or deliberate clickbait posted by charlatans with nicknames like "Avocado."

For example, studies have already shown that low-THC cannabis can reduce the nausea associated with some diseases, notably cancer. And higher THC content can improve appetite. So cannabis indirectly helped with cancer by improving nutrition. But the zealots and charlatans blew that factoid out of proportion to claim cannabis cures cancer. It does not.

So while CBD did not "cure" my thyroid cancer, it did help reduce the nausea that was mostly caused by the grotesquely swollen thyroid compressing my trachea and esophagus. For a few months last year I couldn't swallow solid food without gagging because everything got stuck in my throat. And the Hashimoto's disease (auto-immune disorder that killed my thyroid) had side effects including nausea. But even the CBD isolates relieved the gagging reflex within 15 minutes so I could occasionally enjoy some solid food. I only wish I'd discovered this before my mom died. She was unable to swallow solid food for her final year, after her esophagus was partially paralyzed as a side effect of intubation for emergency surgery. She was well nourished in hospice through a stomach feeding tube, but I'm sure she missed enjoying real meals or at least a bit of solid food.

However, the CBD isolates I tried made me even more skeptical of the claims for relief from pain and anxiety. It just did not work that way for me. But I kept hearing claims of pain relief from people I trust who are not credulous, gullible or suckers for snake oil. So I finally found a couple of brands of full spectrum high potency CBD and those really did work: Lazarus Naturals, and Sunsoil (formerly Green Mountain CBD). Lazarus already had the lowest price on the market and added another generous discount for veterans, so I've bought from them for almost a year.

Lazarus offers several different products, including THC-free isolates and various oils. I tried all three, including their popular RSO. But only the high potency full spectrum oil works for me. The others did zippo.

I was also curious to find out whether it's really just the THC that offers pain relief, and perhaps the CBD is overrated. On many casual group rides some folks will have vape pens with THC, so on a couple of occasions after a ride I tried a puff. Being a wimp I felt the effects quickly from a single puff. But it didn't have any particular analgesic effect. And I remembered why I quit using recreational weed when I was a teenager. I get bored with the sensation pretty quickly, after about 15 minutes, but the effect of potent THC lingers for 2-4 hours. And I can't ride a bike stoned.

So it doesn't appear to be just the THC alone that provides pain relief. There's some combination of potent CBD and a tiny amount of THC that seems to hit the sweet spot of pain relief without hindering my energy, balance or reflexes.
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Old 08-03-19, 01:27 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by guachi
Neither of those are about reduction in inflammation from exercise. So neither is relevant to taking CBD for recovery after exercising.

At least the cherry juice studies I mentioned actually focused on post-exercise recovery.

When I did a Google search before my first post, I stopped looking at links after the third page as none of them were scientific studies and none of the web sites linked to scientific studies. It makes sense that CBD oil would be worth studying for its effects on pain/inflammation reduction post exercise. I've just never seen such studies.
For the record, anything cannabis related has always been vilified. So the main reason you don't see scientific studies is just because we've been brainwashed for the past 100 years into thinking its evil so its not popular to do so.

Even now, many institutions and organizations still ban its use (you can still be terminated if it shows up) even though its no longer illegal to consume in many states.. Only recently has it been legally allowed in the States, even for scientist to study its many possible uses.
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Old 08-06-19, 05:37 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by t_e_r_r_y
what? not only are there studies linked in this thread that show cbd oil has muy detectable effect, there's straight up people who have/do/are using it and it are telling you first hand that it helps their pain.

i never could wrap my head around why some boomer types are so scared of a plant and all it has to offer, especially when it can, and does, do the same job as a lot of terrible and addictive man made drugs. i can't help but think some of these people must have stock in poppy fields somewhere or something.
There are plenty of studies from Staggering Joe that will tell you anything you like to hear. As far as they've been able to determine in double blind studies, it has exactly the same effects as placebo and placebo effects are known to be strongly self-supporting.

If you find that these CBD oils help you, fine. There's absolutely nothing wrong with believing that they do. But when you recommend them to someone else with the same problems don't expect it to work for them at all.
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Old 08-06-19, 05:38 PM
  #37  
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Everything connected to tobacco has also been vilified.
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Old 08-06-19, 06:20 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by RiceAWay
As far as they've been able to determine in double blind studies, it has exactly the same effects as placebo and placebo effects are known to be strongly self-supporting.
who is "they" and where are these studies you speak of?

there are many studies done on all the different aspects of this 100% natural plan that so many of you like to hate on. i'm just glad the opinion of the closed minded few don't matter at all in the long run.

just wait until psychedelics and all the good they bring arrives at the point that pot is now. those will be interesting times. big tobacco is already gearing up to take over the pot industry, it'll be interesting who will try to cash in on mushrooms when the time comes.
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Old 08-06-19, 07:19 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by t_e_r_r_y
who is "they" and where are these studies you speak of?

there are many studies done on all the different aspects of this 100% natural plan that so many of you like to hate on. i'm just glad the opinion of the closed minded few don't matter at all in the long run.

just wait until psychedelics and all the good they bring arrives at the point that pot is now. those will be interesting times. big tobacco is already gearing up to take over the pot industry, it'll be interesting who will try to cash in on mushrooms when the time comes.
Apples and oranges, t_e_r_r_y. There are no "psychedelics" in CBD which have many of the same medical benefits as its THC cousin.
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Old 08-06-19, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
Apples and oranges, t_e_r_r_y. There are no "psychedelics" in CBD which have many of the same medical benefits as its THC cousin.
i wasn't comparing the two as far as how the brain reacts to them, but in that how they both have great medical benefits yet have terrible stigmas.

so yeah, kinda like apples and oranges in that apples and oranges are both fruit with useful qualities.
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Old 08-08-19, 06:15 AM
  #41  
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Regarding the recovery aspect, that's a valid point too. For many of us, relief from pain and inflammation is a routine part of recovery. Helps get us back on the bike, walking or doing whatever exercise helps keep us moving. And pain relief also helps relieve anxiety, tension, stress, all of which contribute to poor dietary habits, especially indulging in comfort foods.

I've heard claims that CBD can relieve inflammation. I haven't seen any studies confirming that. Pain relief doesn't necessarily mean it's also reducing inflammation.

One of those claiming relief from both pain and inflammation is Floyd Landis (Floyd's of Leadville), who's suffered from hip pain since he was in his 20s from professional cycling and related injuries. That's what finally sold me on suspending my usual skepticism and at least trying CBD. Knowing what chronic severe pain feels like, I knew it would either work or it wouldn't, but no placebo effect would persuade me my neck and shoulder weren't aching.

So while CBD helps my pain, I still take a prescription NSAID for inflammation (diclofenac). If studies show that CBD does relieve inflammation I'll consider discontinuing all NSAIDs. But at least I've cut back on the ibuprofen. For more than a decade after my neck and back were broken in 2001 I took a fistful of ibuprofen every day, usually 800-2400 mg a day. It barely helped with pain. It was a relief to get the diclofenac prescription -- it's just two small enteric coated pills a day. I've been out of it for a week or two and had to return to using ibuprofen.

Since using an effective brand and type of CBD I've cut back to only on 200 mg ibuprofen on rare occasions during bike rides when my neck starts aching -- usually after 30 miles or so. My limit is about 50 miles for now before the pain becomes unbearable. And it usually takes a full day and visit to my PT or chiropractor to loosen up the knotted muscles.

There's also some mild anxiety relief, although that may be due in part to the pain relief. Folks with chronic pain often don't realize how tense they are until they get some real pain relief and can relax. It doesn't have the effect of a prescription tranquilizer, or even melatonin or valerian root.

I've used the CBD isolates for my cats and it seems to help. The oldest is 16 now and last year she wasn't eating or moving around much and often seemed to cry out in pain. Since using a tiny amount of CBD isolate in the common drinking water dish, she's put on weight, is more active and even plays a little with the other cats. And all three cats no longer freak out during thunderstorms, yet they aren't doped up. As another BF member pointed out on another discussion about CBD, animals probably don't respond to a placebo effect. If it works, it works, but they can't be fooled by placebo. It's also possible that the home life overall is less stressful now, so perhaps it's coincidental. Last year was just plain awful, so perhaps the oldest cat was picking up on that stress level.
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Old 08-08-19, 07:39 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by canklecat
Regarding the recovery aspect, that's a valid point too. For many of us, relief from pain and inflammation is a routine part of recovery. Helps get us back on the bike, walking or doing whatever exercise helps keep us moving. And pain relief also helps relieve anxiety, tension, stress, all of which contribute to poor dietary habits, especially indulging in comfort foods.

I've heard claims that CBD can relieve inflammation. I haven't seen any studies confirming that. Pain relief doesn't necessarily mean it's also reducing inflammation.

One of those claiming relief from both pain and inflammation is Floyd Landis (Floyd's of Leadville), who's suffered from hip pain since he was in his 20s from professional cycling and related injuries. That's what finally sold me on suspending my usual skepticism and at least trying CBD. Knowing what chronic severe pain feels like, I knew it would either work or it wouldn't, but no placebo effect would persuade me my neck and shoulder weren't aching.

So while CBD helps my pain, I still take a prescription NSAID for inflammation (diclofenac). If studies show that CBD does relieve inflammation I'll consider discontinuing all NSAIDs. But at least I've cut back on the ibuprofen. For more than a decade after my neck and back were broken in 2001 I took a fistful of ibuprofen every day, usually 800-2400 mg a day. It barely helped with pain. It was a relief to get the diclofenac prescription -- it's just two small enteric coated pills a day. I've been out of it for a week or two and had to return to using ibuprofen.

Since using an effective brand and type of CBD I've cut back to only on 200 mg ibuprofen on rare occasions during bike rides when my neck starts aching -- usually after 30 miles or so. My limit is about 50 miles for now before the pain becomes unbearable. And it usually takes a full day and visit to my PT or chiropractor to loosen up the knotted muscles.

There's also some mild anxiety relief, although that may be due in part to the pain relief. Folks with chronic pain often don't realize how tense they are until they get some real pain relief and can relax. It doesn't have the effect of a prescription tranquilizer, or even melatonin or valerian root.

I've used the CBD isolates for my cats and it seems to help. The oldest is 16 now and last year she wasn't eating or moving around much and often seemed to cry out in pain. Since using a tiny amount of CBD isolate in the common drinking water dish, she's put on weight, is more active and even plays a little with the other cats. And all three cats no longer freak out during thunderstorms, yet they aren't doped up. As another BF member pointed out on another discussion about CBD, animals probably don't respond to a placebo effect. If it works, it works, but they can't be fooled by placebo. It's also possible that the home life overall is less stressful now, so perhaps it's coincidental. Last year was just plain awful, so perhaps the oldest cat was picking up on that stress level.
I would assume that you're taking these one at a time since its not possible to made any determination on its effectiveness if you're taking it in combination with some other medication. I've been on the fence with trying CBD oil (its expensive and may not work at all) for some time now. But since its only defined as a pain reliever without specifics to the types of pain it can reduce.

Pain covers a great deal of territory and can be caused by a number of factors, not all of which work well with some types of ailments. Funny, you should mention diclofenac/Voltaren because I've been using the cream to spot reduce my knee and lower back pain for a while.

On my last doctor's visit, she mentioned diclofenac in pill form and I've been using that with great results -- although I try not to take it every day. Problems is, I have more than one type of pain. While it works very well on my neck and lower back (muscle aches), it does nothing for my upper back and shoulder pain. Which I suspect is more nerve induced pain.

As for your cat, they may not be fooled into a placebo response (for obvious reasons), but the problem with animal studies is that you have to base your entire findinga on observation alone, since they can't tell you if they feel any better or not. Cats are particularly challenging since they don't show much change the way many dogs or some other animals do. If your cat were human it would probably be 100 years old.
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Old 08-08-19, 09:38 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
I would assume that you're taking these one at a time since its not possible to made any determination on its effectiveness if you're taking it in combination with some other medication. I've been on the fence with trying CBD oil (its expensive and may not work at all) for some time now.
Yeah, I was skeptical about CBD, especially after the first couple of brands I tried did nothing. So when I tested each batch I skipped taking any other analgesics, prescription or OTC, to eliminate variables.

It can be effective and is expensive. I've found two brands that work and are among the least expensive around. After trying both I stuck with the company that offers an additional discount for veterans, so it's more affordable. It's still about $50 a month, which is expensive on my budget. But the VA covers all my prescription meds and medical expenses, so I have a little more room in the budget than I did this time last year.

But since its only defined as a pain reliever without specifics to the types of pain it can reduce.

Pain covers a great deal of territory and can be caused by a number of factors, not all of which work well with some types of ailments.
Right. Researchers generally define three types of pain. I forget the terms they use, but many folks with chronic pain from a combination of injuries and illness find that OTC or prescription pain meds work on some, but not all, types of pain.

This is particularly true with gabapentin, which has only been shown to be effective on some types of neuropathic pain, including from shingles. Some folks with fibromyalgia say gabapentin works for them. There is zero evidence that it works on pain caused by injuries, inflammation, migraine, cluster headaches, etc. Yet due to paranoia over the opiate scare some physicians assistants and nurse practitioners are permitted to dispense only gabapentin or diclofenac for all types of pain, without regard to efficacy based on research. Gabapentin helped my mom, who suffered from neuropathic pain after a nearly year-long bout with shingles. But it did nothing for me.

Besides pain from injuries (hit by cars twice since 2001), I've had severe headaches since childhood -- variously diagnosed by various neurologists as migraine, cluster headache, trigeminal neuralgia and "I dunno" by one neurologist who spent most of our sessions complaining about his divorce. And for more than 20 years I've had intermittent aches in every joint and muscle, apparently related to Hashimoto's, an auto-immune disorder that finally killed my thyroid.

Even the relatively strong opiates like oxycontin did little or nothing for those severe headaches. They did occasionally respond to Imitrex. Imitrex and other meds for migraines did nothing for the other types of pain.

Even before the current opiate hysteria, when doctors were free to dispense pain meds as they saw fit, none of the doctors I saw seemed particularly interested in complaints of chronic pain. Eventually I quit mentioning it, then quit going to doctors altogether for almost 20 years. I just swallowed fistsful of ibuprofen, wrapped my head in ice packs, and waited out the worst of it. Some of those headaches lasted up to 48 hours without a break, the worst pain I've ever experienced. Eventually it was traced to nerve damage from my broken C1 and C2 from the 2001 wreck.

Then after the 2018 incident (hit by a car while I was riding my bike), I've had persistent pain between the scapula and spine long after the injury healed. There didn't appear to be any reason for it. But it did respond to CBD, once I found a good brand. And I'm trying Ted's Pain Cream again, a topical analgesic with reserveratrol that supposedly "resets" nerves that are stuck in pain signalling mode after injuries heal.

Funny, you should mention diclofenac/Voltaren because I've been using the cream to spot reduce my knee and lower back pain for a while.
That was prescribed for me as well, for the shoulder and neck injuries. Didn't work. That's why I've tried every topical analgesic available, including CBD. While oral CBD has worked for me, the topical doesn't. However I was intrigued by the theory behind Ted's Pain Cream, since it was developed by neuroscientists. The website contains some interesting info. It didn't help last year immediately after the injury. But I'm trying it again now, starting Monday a few days ago. They recommend using it three times a day for at least a week to evaluate results. By now, day 4, I'm noticing a little less pain in a couple of tricky spots between the scapula and spine. Those spots, barely finger-width, were so tender I'd jump during physical therapy or chiropractor sessions when anyone touched those small areas. There are three places, no larger than a dime or penny, that still register pain level 7 or worse, when touched, and after long bike rides. But today it's just a dull ache, around a 5 or 6. It'll be interesting to see how it feels in another week or so trying the Ted's stuff.

On my last doctor's visit, she mentioned diclofenac in pill form and I've been using that with great results -- although I try not to take it every day.
Yup, the oral version worked for me for inflammation. Not so much for quick pain relief. I ran out a couple of weeks ago and delayed asking for a refill because I wanted to re-evaluate just the CBD alone and the Ted's Pain Cream. I get most of my meds through the VA and the new batch of diclofenac should arrive today or tomorrow. But I may wait another week or so before resuming it.

Problems is, I have more than one type of pain. While it works very well on my neck and lower back (muscle aches), it does nothing for my upper back and shoulder pain. Which I suspect is more nerve induced pain.
Yup, very familiar. Fortunately my VA docs were far more receptive to my descriptions of pain. My primary authorized hydrocodone and cyclobenzaprine, but I haven't asked for a refill since November last year and still have a few left. I save those for worst case scenarios, the kind of pain that would otherwise force me to go to the ER. My doc knows I'm low risk (I declined morphine immediately after I was hit by a car last year, although I joked with the ER doc that I might regret it in a day or so and wish I could take some home. They did send me home with a 10 day batch of hydrocodone, which lasted me almost six months) so I can request refills if necessary. But I've told her I'm trying CBD, and the VA is training employees and contractors about it so they don't conflate CBD with recreational weed. There are rumors that the VA may begin dispensing CBD as well. That will save me some money.

As for your cat, they may not be fooled into a placebo response (for obvious reasons), but the problem with animal studies is that you have to base your entire findinga on observation alone, since they can't tell you if they feel any better or not. Cats are particularly challenging since they don't show much change the way many dogs or some other animals do. If your cat were human it would probably be 100 years old.
Yeah, I was also very skeptical about CBD for pets. But I was worried about the oldest cat. I adopted my mom's cats after she died last year and was worried about the oldest losing weight, being lethargic and in apparent pain, and just generally being unhealthy. The CBD really seems to be helping her appetite and energy level. I mean, she still mostly naps in her window cat tower. But she walks around more, demands to be petted and brushed (she'll keep pestering me until I brush her), and looks much healthier. Maybe it's the CBD. Maybe she's just adapted to me as her person now. Dunno. But the CBD was free (some isolate from a friend), and isn't doing any harm. The cats won't drink their water when I use my own full spectrum CBD, although that might be due to the chocolate mint flavoring. I got some unflavored oil to try on them after the isolate runs out.

Anyway, if you're curious to try CBD, I highly recommend Lazarus Naturals. Lowest prices of any reputable company. And they've recently offered free shipping for most orders and it's quicker now too. Used to take a week or so, but now it's only 2-3 days. Besides discounts for veterans, they also have discounts for folks with documented disabilities and low income. They specify conditions and documents needed. For me, I just scanned my DD-214 discharge paper. Took a week to get approved for something like a 50% or larger discount.

The next best company I've found is Sunsoil of Vermont (formerly Green Mountain CBD). It's good, but Lazarus was better and less expensive.

Every other brand I tried was either a complete waste of money or overpriced. The only one I can suggest is PlusCBD, a popular brand sold in many health food stores and online. It works but it's more expensive, less potent and not a great value compared with Lazarus and Sunsoil.
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Old 08-08-19, 09:47 AM
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Oil gets into the system faster, I think.
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Old 08-08-19, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
A couple of things...

1. No, because no one has given me any, and I am not a fool to spend my own money on it.

2. If you want to bring attention to a question you have posed to a forum member you should either use the post quote function or the mention function. Not everyone returns to check every post in every thread he/she has posted in. Let me know if you'd like me to describe how to use the aforementioned functions.
What an ass
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Old 08-08-19, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by sdmc530
FYI make sure if your using or taking any Marijuana products make sure they are legal where you are...
A bigger issue is that, from admittedly what little I've read on the subject, the CBD oils are often contaminated with byproducts and even trace amounts of THC. If you are employed in a profession where drug testing is de rigeur, than you had better understand the legalities of a positive test for a banned drug.

Legal in a State is one matter. Permissible in your profession is another entirely.
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Old 08-09-19, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks
I tried CBD and Hemp products as an absolute skeptic, thinking it was all a bunch of hogwash.

I noticed an immediate reduction in overall tension and soreness. The stuff works. A scientific study to prove that might be nice, but I can see it with my own eyes. And I went into it fully skeptical, so it's not psychosomatic
Are you sure it wasn't a placebo effect?

I for one am a bit skeptical on the benefits of CBD oil, because since it became legal to market it in a lot of places, it's now being touted as a magical cure-all for just about anything. I'm not denying that it may have certain effects, but anyone with a CBD oil company (some products which may not even actually contain CBD) is making all sorts of claims about their magical oil. It's almost as bad as the women in MLM's selling essential oils.
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Old 08-09-19, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Runinman72
Oil gets into the system faster, I think.
Yup, sublingual -- under the tongue -- offers the most rapid absorption. I can feel the effects within 5-10 minutes, about the same as other sublingual meds like the ondanstetron I took for awhile last year for nausea related to thyroid cancer. It turned out the CBD was more effective for me in reducing nausea and gagging while trying to swallow food or pills.

The oil is just a good carrier and part of one of the usual extraction processes. Some makers use CO2, others use alcohols.

Lots of experimenting goes into that. When I first tried Lazarus Naturals CBD oil a year ago it tasted fishy. Since then they've improved the flavor dramatically in response to customer feedback. Now it's among the more pleasant tasting CBDs. It's not just covered up with flavorings (although the chocolate mint is my favorite), but using better quality MCT, improved extraction and controlling the entire process from seed to finished product.

Lazarus and Sunsoil gel capsules have a bright, hempy odor (somewhat similar to hops, but the hemp odor and flavor is distinctively unique and familiar to anyone who's smelled marijuna), but with little or no flavor upon swallowing and digesting. The caps take longer to be effective, up to 2 hours. I'll take one just before a long ride so by the 30 mile mark when my usual neck and shoulder aches kick in the CBD is working. Gets me through 50-60 mile rides in reasonable comfort without side effects.
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Old 08-09-19, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz
A bigger issue is that, from admittedly what little I've read on the subject, the CBD oils are often contaminated with byproducts and even trace amounts of THC. If you are employed in a profession where drug testing is de rigeur, than you had better understand the legalities of a positive test for a banned drug.

Legal in a State is one matter. Permissible in your profession is another entirely.
The most reputable makers publish lab tests that answer most questions about purity and health/safety. Some do their own lab testing, others use one of a handful of independent labs that specialize in testing cannabis products. I wouldn't worry about reports of mold, heavy metals, etc.

The better companies in the cannabis industry are very conscientious about this. They're putting on the best possible face to make it acceptable and to distinguish the cannabis industry from the many snake oil and voodoo junk that litters the dietary and health supplement market. Some of my acquaintances have moved to Colorado and elsewhere to get into the industry and they include folks with backgrounds in science, chemistry, computer and IT, former government and mainstream industry marketing and management.

Pretty soon Coca Cola, beer and coffee manufacturers will join in offering CBD and possibly medical or recreational cannabis in various forms for ingestion. CBD flavored coffee is very tasty.

Regarding THC, for now federal law defines full spectrum CBD as having no more than 0.3% THC. That's very low and may not be detected by some tests. Only the most sensitive users will feel any side effects, and that will probably occur only the first time or two. The body adapts quickly to THC, something noted by many recreational stoners over the decades. They have to use more to get the same high. So the amount of THC in CBD shouldn't worry most folks. Nyquil has stronger side effects.

Many makers also offer CBD isolates with no detectable THC. These may be in colorless crystals, often in a transparent nearly colorless liquid of glycerin and other carriers and flavorings. That's what I give my cats. Seems to work, as I've described in earlier posts here. And I know of folks who do get drug tested for work but have no problems with CBD isolates. But the isolates don't work for me.

Regarding sports governing bodies, I can see why they might prohibit high THC content. I wouldn't want to race alongside stoners. But full spectrum CBD won't hinder performance or reflexes in most folks.
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Old 08-09-19, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
Are you sure it wasn't a placebo effect?

I for one am a bit skeptical on the benefits of CBD oil, because since it became legal to market it in a lot of places, it's now being touted as a magical cure-all for just about anything. I'm not denying that it may have certain effects, but anyone with a CBD oil company (some products which may not even actually contain CBD) is making all sorts of claims about their magical oil. It's almost as bad as the women in MLM's selling essential oils.
Give it a try and decide for yourself. If you have any chronic or occasional pain for which you'd normally take ibuprofen, aspirin or acetaminophen, that's the sort of low to moderate level pain that CBD is good for. For me, it's effective for pain level up to 6 on the scale of 10.

It's definitely not a placebo effect in my case. With multiple serious injuries from various accidents -- hit by cars twice, many crashes on my own in races and recreational bike and motorcycle rides -- my pain doesn't respond to placebo. Particularly in the past 20 years I've tried everything legally available that family and friends offered, including essential oils, topical balms, shark cartilage, meditation, hypnosis, chiropractors (the best chiropractors use suggestion comparable to therapeutic hypnosis, which may help some folks to feel relief from discomfort), etc. None of that works for me.

There's a lot of junk cannabis and hemp products on the market. I can recommend Lazarus Naturals and Sunsoil. Lowest prices of any reputable manufacturers. Mail order only in most places. Lazarus recently reduced their prices, offers free and fast shipping, and moved to a new facility, while also improving their quality. Try one of their sample packs of oil, capsules and topical balm for about $25 or so.
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