bamboobike4

I never said I did Eroica, but if I did, I'd follow the rules.
I was invited to L'Eroica in Italy, free lodging and transport once I got there, but all that walking up white gravel roads....exhausting!

A little arbitrary interpretation there. I believe the actual language is "all road racing bikes built in 1987 or earlier." So, in the spirit of a certain past president, we may need to define what a "road racing bike" actually is. These are the hairs that seem to be under split. Is that really necessary if one just follows the rules? As far as tubes and tires and brake pads, most cyclists understand disposables, repair, and maintenance vs. regulated types of frames and components. If one doesn't, the sheer challenge of daily life, much less Eroica, must be overwhelming.

Interestingly enough, steel-vintage.com doesn't even list a required year or frame material. (Steel-Vintage.com)

The Eroica California site (Eroica CA) seems to have the most comprehensive list. After all, it's their event..
I'm pretty sure my Exxon Graftek would qualify, as would my Teledyne Titan, but I've got several pre-1987 models that I'm sure would qualify, being steel, and lugged.

No mention of how many speeds.

I'd run traditional flats. I see no reason to fall over due to straps, and I most certainly would.

That's a pretty big "give" in 2017, but not bad. One of the Eroica pictures on the website shows a Bianchi with aero cable routing.

No mention of Campy, Shimano, etc. here, but that's pretty well covered in a).

Crystal clear. I think the OP's wheels likely qualify, but I didn't measure them.

Clear enough.

Again, pretty clear.

Clear as daylight.

I defer to both the gentleman who prefers dual-pivot for his own safety and the one who suggests changing the way you ride because of the required equipment, i.e. "go slow because old brakes can suck." My adherence would be with the latter, scary as it sounds.

Based on what I see here, your wheels would qualify, no one would likely check you for tubeless or do a body cavity search for sealant. Think of the satisfaction of finishing the ride, and then think of the satisfaction of adhering to all the rules, and also finishing the ride. No nagging asterisk * in the back of your mind. It comes down to conscience and self-honesty.

Even if I did everything right, rode the right bike in the right gear, I'd be pretending I'm a "hero." I'm just a cyclist.
But I'd enjoy it. Part of the experience would be to do it the way it was once done, with all the baggage that has.

I enjoyed tweed rides, too, and I sure as heck didn't wear turn of the century clothing, and I rode a Panasonic Tourist 10. The ice cream was delicious.

Andy_K 

There seem to be two distinct groups of people drawn to Eroica events. One group are purists who want to recreate the experience of bike racing in the classic era as authentically as possible. The other group are a random assortment of people who think riding and old bike on a tough gravel course with a bunch of like-minded people sounds fun. The rules are absolutely geared towards the first group. That's what the organizers want. But the event isn't viable (at least in the U.S.) without the second group.

The objections of the purists kind of remind me of this Onion review of the 2009 Star Trek reboot: https://www.theonion.com/trekkies-ba...ble-1819594814

My favorite line from the review: "If I wanted to see young, attractive people doing cool, exciting things, I'd go watch sports."

On the other hand, I do understand where they're coming from. You wouldn't bring an AK-47 to a Civil War reenactment, but you probably also wouldn't choose to get dysentery for a more authentic experience.

bamboobike4

I never said I did Eroica, but if I did, I'd follow the rules.
That's all I'm stating, because they seem important enough to be out there.
I'm also allowed to have an opinion, and exhale armchair hot air.

chune

I think the real issue here is that tubeless tires are clinchers so the rule is a bit ambiguous as it stands because it doesn’t mention tubeless tires by name. It would be nice to see some clarification on this.

For example: I know I can source early dura ace aero brake levers made before 1988 but they are very specific about this in the rules: I could do ECA but not the original in Italy. I just don’t see going from tubed to tubeless tires changing the cycling style as much as aero components did.

https://biketestreviews.com/tubular-...beless-tires/#

iab

I would agree that the organizers created a problem with the intent of the ride and what they define as viable. They want 1,000 riders and you are absolutely correct without the second group, they may get a couple hundred of the first group. I don't know why a couple hundred would be bad.

Andy_K 

Well, the rules are actually fairly specific on this point, as was already quoted in this thread:

"both tubular tyres and clinchers with inner tubes are allowed" (emphasis added)

You just need to decide if you want to be strictly compliant with the rules or if you're willing to grant yourself a little latitude. At ECA, I can tell you for sure that you have the freedom to grant yourself such latitude. At Gaiole, maybe not. Regarding tubeless, I am certain that absolutely no one will know whether or not you have tubes. So in that case, it's entirely up to you whether or not you choose to strictly follow this rule. I just don't see the point in trying to find an interpretation of the rule that allows what you plan to do. It doesn't matter. Really, the rules are there to make the experience better for you. The ethos of the event is better preserved if the organizers talk as though the rules are strict, and the event is much better if everyone is trying to follow the rules, but in the end it really is up to you.

Is it the Gaiole ride you're thinking about?

chune

Crap, you’re right on the clinchers.

Yes we just happen to be taking a vacation in Italy (Genoa & Naples) while this event is going on and I just happen to have a garage full of L’Eroica-ish bikes I have been fixing up. Seems like too much of a coincidence so I think I have to do it. I have been doing regular hilly 25-30 mile rides with 42/34 climbing gear and grinding up some (short) 18% grades. The only question is do I shoot for the 50 mile ride or the 30 mile ride?

bikingshearer 

I understand the draw. Bottom line: you could use your wheels at Eroica CA with no one giving a poop, but they might not pass muster in Italy.

As for the rest of the discussion: Ride what the heck you want and let others ride what the heck they want. If the event organizers care, they'll do something about it. At this point, Eroica CA is not selling out, so allowing people to participate who have less than 100% compliance is not depriving any 100% compliers of a spot. Unless and until that changes, it simply does not matter.

As for the gent who chastises others by saying "you rode the Eroica course but you didn't ride Eroica," why would you do that? Other than stroking your self-importance, what possible good can come of it? What the other person does, Eroica compliance-wise, has zero impact on your life. Zero. You think they are blowhard posers? You are entitled to your opinion (and it's possible I'd agree with you), but that doesn't give you a roving commission to rain on someone else's parade. From where I sit, it is just being mean for no constructive purpose whatsoever. It's using the "truth" as a blunt instrument, not as an instrument of enlightenment. If what they are saying/doing bugs you, walk away, figuratively or literally as circumstances dictate. If you want to feel superior, go glue some tubulars or check the toe-in on your Universal 51s or clean and lube your Regina Extra. Much more constructive and you aren't being a jerk.

bamboobike4

Do they still have a lottery system for non-European men?
At one time, there were limits for men of a certain age from off-continent.

Bianchi84

"... always let your conscience be your guide"
- Jiminy Cricket

DMC707

Id just do it -- those tires are retro in appearance and make me want to try a pair -- although your experience wrestling with the bead gives me pause. I havent done tubeless road tires yet, but seriously want to now

Steel Charlie

And the purist should of course be wearing only chamois pad wool shorts to insure that stick up the butt stays firmly in place.

HTH

DiabloScott

Who is getting a more heroic experience - the rider who does 110 tough miles over 8 hours including gravel and steep hills (fatigue and conquest), on a 95% compliant bike and clothing kit? Or a rider who cycles his 100% compliant rig a few miles down the beach to eat French fries, drink wine, and pose?

I am proposing that equipment compliance is not binary, and that the authenticity of the equipment is only one piece of the overall splendor of the event; and I am assuming that the Eroica czars would agree.

Full disclosure - I had to put my DT shifters into index mode after a couple hours because friction wasn't holding.

squirtdad

I think this is it, while I have not done eroica, I had done cino once

I think you miss out if you don't try for close to compliant, but even there it is a matter of degree, I added a third ring just to try to survive on an otherwise period correct 84 team miyata and 28mm gravel kings are certainly bigger than what have been rididen in 84 ( 19 to 20 would have been more likely) pointed these out to the "inspector" and got my stamp

other people have done these thing on period correct bike with wooden rims.... not me

OldCoot

I say ride the 50 mile and you will get a better flavor of the event. At 30 miles as a regular ride, you are with in easy reach. The last Eroica had 35 ish (easy flat) and 72 (6000' of climbing) and some other more difficult options. A 50 miler would have been a nice distance had it been offered. All that way and not ride the most you can would be a shame. I hope you have a great time!

iab

Again, I don't disagree. It is a challenge ride, if you are not challenged, why do that ride? There are plenty of non-challenge rides in the world if you want to dilly dally along.

That said, not all old-timey bikes were for racing. And I'd rather have organizers add a ploot-around-town on old-timey city bikes wearing your Sunday best (ala tweed ride) addition, than an endless thread about, How do I skirt the rules and feel good about myself?

Classtime 

I did the ride this year with 37 year old brake blocks, cables, and housings--BUT I used some of that toxic-use-gloves-or-else-Pft-stuff sprayed inside and I didn't get caught --thank heavens. An Eroica message came to me recently that indicated modern anything (helmet excepted) was FROWNED on. Next year, I'll have Raybans or nothing and a Vintage helmet or nothing. (Don't tell my wife or kids.)

If I have my way, no one gets the Heroic Sticker next year if they use Tubeless tires, TR rims, or black spokes.

Steel Charlie

I KNOW! ! I KNOW ! ! ! IT'S THE SECOND GUY ! ! And he can do it every day, not just when he has been surrounded by other (deleted) "enthusiasts".
BTW - -it takes a hero to ride a bike in today's beach traffic.

OldCoot

You have created the mental image of a person in a high school desk, whose hand has shot up and waving in the air, as he strains to keep his butt planted on the seat....

Correct answer!

chune

alright I spent a small fortune on NOS dura ace 7400 hubs and uniglide cogs, I hope you are happy. Now I have to figure out how to build a wheel

Oldairhead 

I hadn't seen this thread before but now that it has reappeared I have read it through. There appear to be a lot of "experts" out there on the ethos of L'Eroica but I would be curious as to how many of these experts have actually ridden an Eroica event. Although I am aware of many veterans of the event here on the forum I suspect that many of the opinions expressed here are not derived from actual participation but rather by interpreting the rules from a distance. Reading the rules is one thing but seeing how they are applied in person can be very different.

People say that EC is a little less stringent in their application of the "rules" than say in Italy, but I believe that when the event began to franchise to other locations the standards began to change. Each location seemed to have a different view of the "rules" and how they were applied, or not. I can't speak to every location but I can speak to a few. The rules are in fact now such that you can ride almost any classic looking road bike as long as it appears to comply as evidenced by the recently introduced Bianchi L'Eroica with a modern 2 x 10 friction drive-train!

At my first L'Eroica in 2012 in Italy I rode a 1972 Legnano Gran Premio which was mostly period correct except for the gearing, which I had modified to give me a 36/28 low gear. I knew that there was no way I could have completed the long route with 52/48 chain rings and a straight block! I didn't really stress about the modification as I knew what I needed to complete a 200 km route with 10,000 feet of climbing. It's been implied in this thread that you don't really "experience" L'Eroica if you make changes like this to your bike. Well, I would beg to differ. When you are descending a 25% gravel grade in the dark surrounded by 7000 other riders with an ineffective set of Universal side-pulls and skinny tires then you will understand!

mhespenheide 

If you want to return those or sell them on to someone else, I've got a set of wheels built up with: Dura Ace 7400, Uniglide cogs, Mavic Open Pro rims, 32 spokes. Hand-built by the fine folks at Wheelsmith back in the day.

I used them on two of my Eroica rides, but I've since moved out of the area and don't see myself traveling back down there for the sake of the ride any time in the next few years.

Andrew_G

Here's the Regulation (ie, rules) page for Eroica California: https://eroica.cc/en/california/regulation


Eroica-CA rules are, for the most part, copied from Eroica-Italy.

In particular, see rules 6.1 e and 6.1 f : Wheels shall have 32 spokes or more, with either tubular tires or clinchers with tubes. Rim height shall not exceed 20mm.


For classic Eroica, the rules are there to foster riding the event on equipment which would have been used BITD (back in the day).


If you want to ride newer hardware, then ride the Eroica Nova event, which allows for modern bikes.


As others have stated, what's the point of riding the vintage event if your intention is to not ride with the equipment used BITD?


I rode Eroica-CA in 2017, 2018 and 2019. The enforcement of equipment rules in EC is rather lax. I've similarly heard that in Europe the enforcement of the technical rules is much more rigorous.

Classtime 

This guy will get you wheel building.
https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php

mech986 

My 72 Italvega Super Speciale with Campagnolo LF hubs built up with Mavic MA3 rims and Compass Rene Herse Bon Jon Pass 700 x 35mm Extralight tires. I typically weigh 215 pounds, bike and supplies about 30 total so 245-250 pounds. My BIL Ben Ngan from Portland suggested the wider tires to ensure against pinch flats, weight carrying capacity, and a much better ride on dirt & gravel roads instead of 700 x 25 at 95+ psi.

At Eroica California 2022, I rode with ~60 psi although I’ve ridden at 50-55 psi on better paved roads and at EC 2019, both on the 72 mile Santa Lucia route and before that, twice on the shorter inland 40 mile route from Paso Robles start.

Every time I show up, people double take at the tire setup (yes, the sloped fork crown gives me that much clearance), and then a few seconds later say “that looks like a great idea!”. Is it complaint with the rules? I think so as there is no specification for tire width (and I do run the tan sidewalk versions). I do use tubes. The wheels are a touch heavy, and because of the sidewall height, adversely affect my gearing.

In 2019, I used a 28T triple granny with a 14-30t 5sp Suntour freewheel. I couldn’t quite climb the initial 11% 3/4 mile grade at the beginning of Cypress Mountain Road (being 53+ miles in may have been part of it). And I had to walk the last 2.5 miles of the climb, all at 10-13%, just couldn’t do it. A challenge indeed for a 64 y/o rather recreational rider.

This year I switched over to a 14-34T freewheel, made adjustments to the long cage NR derailleur and chain to ensure 1st gear engagement, and better paced myself. Since I knew what to expect, the initial Cypress climb went fairly well and I got to within 1/2 mile of the top before I had to stop. I suppose I could have rested a bit and rode on but I decided to walk the rest, beauty of fatigue indeed. Met 5 other riders at the summit, around 4:30pm. Beautiful view to the west and the ocean. The challenge and the ride were awesome, save for some organizational issues covered elsewhere. The real scary part was the Cypress Mountain descent where there were a number of 8-10% down grades and very fast but gravel or broken pavement areas. My Campagnolo side pulls with Koolstop pads just weren’t working as well as in 2019. In retrospect, I should have wiped down the rim braking surfaces with water before descending, it would have been noisy but better, seemed the brake surfaces were a bit glazed or maybe my pads too far toe’d in. My left hand was really sore from squeezing the brake levers so hard.

Anyway, there was no one from EC checking out bikes for compliance either on the Classic or Nova ride. Plenty of people using somewhat newer gear to cope with the terrain or difficulty of the longer routes. IMO, it’s basically a gentleman’s agreement that you’ll build up your bike in the spirit of Eroica, and take that challenge as best you can. After 11 hours, 75 total miles, 5000+ feet of climb and 6000+ calories expended (tracked by my Apple Watch, iPhone, and Cyclemeter App, yeah I didn’t have that BITD), I think my bike and I performed as well as could be expected, I sure didn’t feel I took advantage of the event or myself.


Italvega as seen on Velo-Retro ride

At Santa Rita Summit

Santa Rita Summit with Velo-Retro gang

Cypress Mountain summit, looking southwest toward Cambria. The descent road is ahead.