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1973 Raleigh Competition with Nervex Lugs?

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1973 Raleigh Competition with Nervex Lugs?

Old 11-23-21, 02:25 PM
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1973 Raleigh Competition with Nervex Lugs?

I recently purchased a 1973 Raleigh Competition with Capella lugs and understand that these lugs were exclusive on the 1973 model. However, were there some 1973 Competitions with Nervex lugs? I'm asking this because I believe I have seen a 73 model with Nervex lugs. Look forward to your responses.
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Old 11-23-21, 02:54 PM
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How did you know the ones you saw with Nervex lugs were from 1973?
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Old 11-23-21, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner
How did you know the ones you saw with Nervex lugs were from 1973?
It had black chainstays and the Brooks saddle had a "73" mark underneath. Based on this, I assumed it was a 73.
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Old 11-23-21, 04:39 PM
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They used Nervex lugs on some 71 Competitions.
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Old 11-23-21, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Arktiger
I recently purchased a 1973 Raleigh Competition with Capella lugs and understand that these lugs were exclusive on the 1973 model. However, were there some 1973 Competitions with Nervex lugs? I'm asking this because I believe I have seen a 73 model with Nervex lugs. Look forward to your responses.
Raleigh in those days put whatever they had on hand on their bikes. Competitions especially. Raleigh also often tailored bikes built for a particular market.

I have a '73 Competition with the Capella lugs, sloping crown fork and the skinny butted chainstays. But I have seen in person and in photos Competitions believed to be '73s with any and all of those details different. Also different fork bends. Remember, these bikes were built at the height of the bike boom. Raleigh had a strong tie with Reynolds for the tubing but almost everything else was from foreign sources (unlike the Japanese manufacturers that often had very strong ties to local Japanese parts manufacturers).
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Old 11-23-21, 05:22 PM
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-----

the Competition model of 1969 & 1970 came with the scrolly NERVEX Professional lug set

they are easily spotted as their headplates are the oval "anniversary" model

​​​​​​
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if you have not done so already you may wish to explore here:

​​​​​​https://www.kurtkaminer.com/bikecollection.html


-----
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Old 11-23-21, 05:51 PM
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Not very consistent with the saddle and bar/brake set ups... Some might be just work with what they were handed, but the marketing point person one would think would be product savvy.
When I was responsible for product photo shoots, I planned the angles and set up to control Everything. There was digital correction but it was Expensive.
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Old 11-23-21, 05:56 PM
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Thanks all! I appreciate the information.
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Old 11-23-21, 10:04 PM
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As mentioned by juvela , it is likely that a Competition built with Nervex lugs would be an earlier one. I also think that if you saw "73" stamped on the bike somewhere it would more likely be referring to a frame angle than the date on a Raleigh. 1973 was more likely to have a letter that indicated the year in the serial number. And in 1974 they started with the serial number sequence which first had a letter indicated factory location (W=Worksop) followed by the second digit of the year (4 indicating 1974)

It has been mentioned many times that 1973 was the year for Capella lugs at Carlton on bikes that were previously seen with Nervex Professional (International, Super Course). I'm suspicious that there may have been a manufacturing problem at Nervex (broken tooling?) that stopped supply temporarily. I had a Peugeot PX-10 from about that same time that had plain lugs rather than the Nervex one would have expected. Does anyone have information that would support or negate this suspicion of mine?
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Old 11-24-21, 02:17 AM
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Early Raleigh Competition Lugs

Originally Posted by daka
As mentioned by juvela , it is likely that a Competition built with Nervex lugs would be an earlier one. I also think that if you saw "73" stamped on the bike somewhere it would more likely be referring to a frame angle than the date on a Raleigh. 1973 was more likely to have a letter that indicated the year in the serial number. And in 1974 they started with the serial number sequence which first had a letter indicated factory location (W=Worksop) followed by the second digit of the year (4 indicating 1974)

It has been mentioned many times that 1973 was the year for Capella lugs at Carlton on bikes that were previously seen with Nervex Professional (International, Super Course). I'm suspicious that there may have been a manufacturing problem at Nervex (broken tooling?) that stopped supply temporarily. I had a Peugeot PX-10 from about that same time that had plain lugs rather than the Nervex one would have expected. Does anyone have information that would support or negate this suspicion of mine?
Please see my notes and link below.

Hey juvela too... hahaha

The Raleigh Competition and Professional models first appeared in 1969 USD catalog. Much later they would be considered Mk I models. Prior to that all of Raleigh's top competitive/sporting bikes were marketed under the Carlton Brand. (don't hold me to these dates but this is what I gleaned from years of researching on the web).

The riders in this 1972 Raleigh catalogue page are both wearing Carlton jerseys. In the 1973 catalog they had Raleigh jerseys.



The first Competitions had chrome plated Nervex Professional lugs plus chrome plated "socks" on the forks and stays. They were advertised as being available in black or "bronze green" (BRG - British Racing Green). In 1969-70 some, most, all had the Raleigh "Heron Anniversary" head badge.



The Competition model wasn't listed in the 1970, 1971 or 1972 US Raleigh catalogs.

In 1971-1972 Competitions were offered in white with light blue trim or lavender with dark blue trim. Raleigh switched to Bocoma medium point Professional lugs. These had 73 stamped into the top head tube lug which meant a 73° angle. They came with a mishmash of components - Zeus, Nervar and Stronglight 93 cranks and so on. It was the height of the Bike Boom Fad and Raleigh used whatever they could get.








Most of of those bikes came with Simplex Prestige derailleurs and Weinmann center pull brakes. The frames were all Reynolds 531 with either forged or stamped Zeus dropouts. Except for the dropouts these Competitions where pretty much the same as some of the Grand Sport bikes from those years. (white and blue or blue and white)



In 1973 the Competition came back in black only as the Mk II. Most had Huret dropouts to go along with the then new Huret Jubilee derailleurs and most came with TA Professional 3 arm cranks. Also some had the same Davis full slopping crowns that Raleigh used Pros. Some Competitions may have had Nervex Pro lugs but many used the Carlton Capella lugs - aka "Birds Eye" lugs - see below...



“In 1959 Carlton reorganized their range. Out went all the various lugs and in came a new style of lug designed for Carlton – the Capella lugs. A new range of models utilizing these lugs were announced and these models – the Catalina, Clubman, Continental and Constellation – were to continue through to 1965.”

Carlton Capella lugs on an early 70's Raleigh Carlton built International.



Huffy imported rebranded Carltons into the US in the 1960's. Capella lugs on a Huffy badged Carlton Constellation.



OK, the rest of the story... for whatever reason, Nervex Pro lugs seem to have become hard to get at the height of the bike boom. Peugeot switched from Nervex Pro lugs to Nervex DuBois lugs around 1972 - the same lugs that Masi used. (see my Peugeot thread link below)

Schwinn switched to Prugnat Type 62bis lugs for a year or so back then too.



The story that I've heard that seems very feasible is that Raleigh found a bunch of old stock Capella lugs at Carlton that dated back to the mid 60's. Being a very frugal company they decided to use them up on the 1973 Competitions! Believe it or don't!

I posted a novella yesterday discussing Nervex lugs on Peugeot PX-10s yesterday. Here's the link:

https://www.bikeforums.net/22318118-post10.html

One last thing, I worked on a number of bike boom era Raleigh Competitions BITD... all I can say is the closest a file ever got to one of those frames was at least 25 feet away! They were exceptionally cobby!

Many Raleigh bikes built back then appear to have been brazed up after the yobs suffered a 3 pint lunch!

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Old 11-24-21, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by verktyg
“In 1959 Carlton reorganized their range. Out went all the various lugs and in came a new style of lug designed for Carlton – the Capella lugs. A new range of models utilizing these lugs were announced and these models – the Catalina, Clubman, Continental and Constellation – were to continue through to 1965.”

verktyg
I'm working up a G-prefix Carlton Flyer with these lugs. Net says G=1959
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Old 11-24-21, 04:54 AM
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Capella Lugs On 1959 Carlton Flyer

Originally Posted by oneclick
I'm working up a G-prefix Carlton Flyer with these lugs. Net says G=1959
The info that I quoted from the website below mentioned that Carlton Flyers could be ordered with Capella lugs too. I left it out because it was getting too far afield from the Raleigh Competition discussion.

https://marksbikes.wordpress.com/tag/chrome/

“In 1959 Carlton reorganized their range. Out went all the various lugs and in came a new style of lug designed for Carlton – the Capella lugs. A new range of models utilizing these lugs were announced and these models – the Catalina, Clubman, Continental and Constellation – were to continue through to 1965.”

So, Capella lugs were used by Carlton from 1959 to 1965.

During the Bike Boom era not just Raleigh but most makers used whatever they could get as far as frame parts and components were concerned. That's why there are so many variances.

The life expectancy of those bikes back then was 5-10 years at most. The people who built them probably could have never imagined that the bikes they produced would be the subject of intense scrutiny by a bunch of anorak wearing collectors 50 years on.

SIDE NOTE: Looking back to the early 70's, I never paid that much attention to those kinds of lugs when I was working on a bike.

We thought that fancy lugs like Nervex Pros were frumpy and old fashioned. The hot ticket was Italian style long point lugs on any "good" bike!

In my old age, I've taken a liking to Nervex and other types of fancy lugs.

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Old 11-24-21, 07:39 AM
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I had to laugh at Chas' reference to the 3 pint lunch.... here is a pic of the steerer tube on my Pro... I always imagined them coming back from said lunch, starting to spray this Pro the same lilac color as the Competition, then, "Blimey, chaps, we got the wrong bloody color!"....
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Old 11-24-21, 11:06 AM
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Nervex lugs on my 71 Competition
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Old 11-24-21, 12:05 PM
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verktyg , thanks for your detailed and very informative post! I have just one other observation/question - of the Carlton-built Raleighs that were equipped with Nervex Professional lugs up through 1972, it appears to me that only the International went back to them when availability resumed. The Super Course Mk. II went to the slightly less decorative (but still pretty, in my opinion) Prugnat 62 bis that you illustrated in your photo of the red Paramount.





As far as I know the International kept the Nervex Professional lugs until the "end", though it has been said that sales of the model were eclipsed in the mid-70s by the much more contemporary-looking Italian machines.
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Old 11-24-21, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by verktyg

Many Raleigh bikes built back then appear to have been brazed up after the yobs suffered a 3 pint lunch!

verktyg
My '73 Competition - Friday bike. 5 pint lunch and straight(?) home. Bike had been pinned or tabbed. Perfect alignment. Monday morning the frame went to paint. Painter was good. Filled all those gaps. (No visible gaps under lugs but one under the shifter stop.)

45 years later I picked up this as a bare frame, lightly used. Immediately obvious this was a bike for really poor roads. But with that one brazing gap and after experiencing Oregon gravelwashboard that felt like a frame buster, did I trust it? Took it to TiCycles to have the paint stripped and frame inspected. (WB bosses, seat lug repair for seat pin, the Huret hanger to ISO standard.) Dave Levy's report after the frame came back stripped - the lugs were bonded by the paint. He flowed in braze like a new build.
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Old 11-24-21, 04:43 PM
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Braze Failures

Originally Posted by 79pmooney
My '73 Competition - Friday bike. 5 pint lunch and straight(?) home. Bike had been pinned or tabbed. Perfect alignment. Monday morning the frame went to paint. Painter was good. Filled all those gaps. (No visible gaps under lugs but one under the shifter stop.)

45 years later I picked up this as a bare frame, lightly used. Immediately obvious this was a bike for really poor roads. But with that one brazing gap and after experiencing Oregon gravelwashboard that felt like a frame buster, did I trust it? Took it to TiCycles to have the paint stripped and frame inspected. (WB bosses, seat lug repair for seat pin, the Huret hanger to ISO standard.) Dave Levy's report after the frame came back stripped - the lugs were bonded by the paint. He flowed in braze like a new build.
Back in the 70's our entry level bikes were Gitanes and Bertins. A few blocks from our shop was a good competitor that sold Raleighs and Peugeots. We had an unspoken agreement - we didn't work on their brands and vice versa.

One Saturday afternoon an irate mother came into our shop dragging her son in tow with a brand new early 70's uber ugly yellow Raleigh Record. The down tube had pulled out of the head tube lug. The tube was corroded and there was clearly no sign of any brass penetration in the lug or on the tube.

We politely sent her to the Raleigh dealer.



Raleigh had been dabbling with "dip brazing" on their cheapest bikes. The process works well for noncritical applications but the parts have to be squeaky clean - no rust, corrosion or oil of any kind. The pieces are heated and dipped into molten brazing material.

Back then there was a fantasy shared by many that tube ends, lugs, crowns and so on didn't need to be cleaned before brazing. The heat plus brazing flux would take care of everything! DREAM ON!

Prime example of a fork crown braze (or lack off braze) failure. You can see the black carbon from oil or grease that hadn't been removed.



Saw this problem on some cheap entry level Bike Boom bikes where the brake bolt was the only thing holding the forks and the steerer together! Some better quality bikes too.


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Old 11-27-21, 03:31 PM
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Always interesting to hear Chas' recollections of the bike boom. I lived thru that time period too, but as a frequent customer, not a bike shop employee. Wanted to buy a Raleigh in "74 but the shoddy brazing and questionable painting made me change my focus to Motobecane. I remember being able to slide my fingernail under the lugs of a Raleigh. Then I inspected a Motobecane Grand Jubile and Grand Record and it was lust at first sight. I ended up buying a Grand Jubile instead of a Competetion. Over the years I've had two gorgeous Competitions, one International, and I currently have a Gran Sport that will be stripped and painted to match the light yellow on my '73 MGB GT and I'll take it to car shows with me. I still have six Motobecanes.
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Old 11-30-21, 07:54 AM
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My first Raleigh Competition was a '71-72 white with lagoon blue trim covered in Krylon and exterior latex housepaint. Nervex Professional lugs, and either a very nice 531 replacement fork or some uncatalogued Raleigh variant with a crown I can't identify. I fished it out of a trashpile at the side of the road as a frameset with some Stronglight 93s and some bent handlebars. It was an amazing bike that I should have kept.

My current Competition is a Capella-lugged example from 1973 that proudly proclaims beer isn't just for breakfast anymore - a headlug point stands proud of brazing material, the rear brake cable stop bridge is several degrees off kilter - but it, too, has an amazing ride quality. My 23.5-in specimen has 73x73 angles, 40 mm of trail and a 41.5-in/105 cm wheelbase - someone described them as '70s bikes with '30s geometry. For a while there I had a '73 Gran Sport which had identical geometry whilst using different chainstays, lugs, crown and dropouts.

They're fun bikes to experiment with. My first one was built up as a 27-in single-speed, a 27-in wheeled 10-speed, then 700C and a 14-speed drivetrain, then finally settling on a fixed-gear setup at which it excelled. My current one is my single-speed-with-options fattish-tired all-roads mount, sporting 42/44T chainrings with a Surly Dingle fixed-gear 17/19T cog on one side of the rear hub and a White Industries Dos Eno 20/22T freewheel on the other. I can get 70-in pavement fixed, 60-in gravel fixed, 60-ish-in freewheel and 52-in gentle singletrack freewheel gears without cross-chaining running 35 mm Continental Cyclocross tires with some space left for mud, wobble or human error.
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Old 11-30-21, 11:13 AM
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A budget Quickbeam
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Old 11-30-21, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage
A budget Quickbeam
But nimbler and zippier feeling!
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Old 12-01-21, 05:43 AM
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1971 Competition Ride And Handling

After I realigned the frame and forks on my 1971 Competition plus fixed the headset, it became a really enjoyable riding and handling bike. I probably put more miles on it in the last year than on any of my other bikes... Not bad for a beater!

Before - eBay pic


After - I put on a set of Stronglight 93 cranks with 50T-38T chainrings, a 14-32T 6 speed Suntour Pro Compe FW, Campy seatpost and lots of other changes. It's set up for gravel crunching.


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Old 08-31-22, 08:50 AM
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Can confirm, I just purchased a '73 raleigh competition with nervex pro lugs at auction. Other non-spec items include: GB Maes "map of britain" bars, 3TTT stem, campy pedals hubs and seat post, brooks professional saddle, Sakae/Ringyo Royal LA-5 crank set, and suntour bar-con shifters. Not sure if all are original but it does appear to me that the suntour bar-con shifters and metal coil cable housings are orig...Bar wrap appears original as do the downtube cable stops, etc. Serial number is interesting: H316. What to make of all this?
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Old 08-31-22, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Arktiger
It had black chainstays and the Brooks saddle had a "73" mark underneath. Based on this, I assumed it was a 73.
73 on a lug is the angle, did not receive much filing attention.
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Old 08-31-22, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage
73 on a lug is the angle, did not receive much filing attention.
My 1978 Super Grand Prix has 73 on the lugs but the 1978 catalog states it should be 74 degrees

https://www.jaysmarine.com/TH_Raleigh_Cat_78_8.html
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