Buy the 1030+ or wait?
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i just want to know where I am going is not going to lead me to dead end without options that are not 45MPH + zones. Heart rate, Ride Time & Distance Traveled are other things I would like to know. I dont care to know what elevation I am heading towards, just did, or have done better/worse on. Neither do I care to know my power output, oxygen estimates, did I bring a banana, & if the coffee pot is still on.
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FWIW, on the FB Garmin 10XX group, used to be the 1030 group, now added the 1040, of about 12-15 posts there are about 6-7 from folks using the 1040 and all with assorted issues, sensors not reliably connecting, cannot load iQ apps, Strava issues, etc.... so definitely a bunch of teething issues. It usually takes a few months for Garmin to collect all the reported issues, fix and release updates. The original device uses have been known as Beta testers for years with Garmin devices.
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I have a love/hate relationship with my 530 and Garmin. The thing about the problems with Garmin products is that they seem to come out of nowhere. The thing can work great for months, even years and then for some reason whether it was a firmware/software update or just the Gods acting up... you lose a feature or two and then you're at the mercy of their customer service. I love what they do but it's just soooo frustrating when something happens.
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I have a love/hate relationship with my 530 and Garmin. The thing about the problems with Garmin products is that they seem to come out of nowhere. The thing can work great for months, even years and then for some reason whether it was a firmware/software update or just the Gods acting up... you lose a feature or two and then you're at the mercy of their customer service. I love what they do but it's just soooo frustrating when something happens.
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njkayaker I think you’ve missed my point. I am not suggesting that it is unimportant or odd to know the gradient one is riding on, but to expect that kind fo data on a near instant basis is just not going to happen in a consumer grade device.
If I was on a 12% grade and it was telling me I was on a 3% grade that would be disconcerting. In my experience, so far, the gradient displayed is pretty close to what I think I am riding on based on several hundreds of thousands of kms ridden over the last 40 years. I am specifically addressing the complaints that have been floating about that the device “lags” in describing the gradient being ridden…Garmin has specifically stated that there is a 5-15second lag (ostensibly due to the algorithm it uses to calculate grade). I put a question mark after tilt sensor because I honestly don’t know if it has one, I do know it has some sort of of gyroscope or magnetic compass, but I used the question mark to denote a question, not a statement, though I am skeptical it has one because calibrating them can be tricky and uncalibrated. I point out the gyroscope/magnetic compass because prior Garmin’s, a Wahoo and a Karoo I used always had a bit of a lag (5-10 seconds) when changing course (following a curve and more so when going around a traffic circle or turning a 90° corner), and now the lag is much less.
Yes, there are some issues being reported with the 1040, Steve B.. No, it is not a beta version.
If I was on a 12% grade and it was telling me I was on a 3% grade that would be disconcerting. In my experience, so far, the gradient displayed is pretty close to what I think I am riding on based on several hundreds of thousands of kms ridden over the last 40 years. I am specifically addressing the complaints that have been floating about that the device “lags” in describing the gradient being ridden…Garmin has specifically stated that there is a 5-15second lag (ostensibly due to the algorithm it uses to calculate grade). I put a question mark after tilt sensor because I honestly don’t know if it has one, I do know it has some sort of of gyroscope or magnetic compass, but I used the question mark to denote a question, not a statement, though I am skeptical it has one because calibrating them can be tricky and uncalibrated. I point out the gyroscope/magnetic compass because prior Garmin’s, a Wahoo and a Karoo I used always had a bit of a lag (5-10 seconds) when changing course (following a curve and more so when going around a traffic circle or turning a 90° corner), and now the lag is much less.
Yes, there are some issues being reported with the 1040, Steve B.. No, it is not a beta version.
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If I were designing a GPS, I'd stick to the GPS for distance and the barometric altimeter to calculate grade. Gyroscopes or accelerometers are ridiculously complex and expensive to get the desired accuracy, and a tilt sensor would be sensitive to mounting. I've come to accept that my GPS slides a bit, even with the sticky rubber mounts, when I ride over a stretch of bumpy road: no, Mr. Garmin, I'm not suddenly climbing a 40% grade. GPS and altimeter? That's just a small software addition, no extra hardware required.
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As I keep saying, all that people are "asking for" is that the 1030+ work like the 1030. This isn't hard to understand.
Gyroscopes and compasses are not the same thing, None of the devices have gyroscopes. The 1030 doesn't have a magnetic compass; the 1030+ does. Neither is using a compass to determine elevation.
I point out the gyroscope/magnetic compass because prior Garmin’s, a Wahoo and a Karoo I used always had a bit of a lag (5-10 seconds) when changing course (following a curve and more so when going around a traffic circle or turning a 90° corner), and now the lag is much less.
If you are moving at sufficient speed, GPS makes a compass completely unnecessary. It's really only there to determine orientation when stopped.
Last edited by njkayaker; 06-28-22 at 10:45 AM.
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If I were designing a GPS, I'd stick to the GPS for distance and the barometric altimeter to calculate grade. Gyroscopes or accelerometers are ridiculously complex and expensive to get the desired accuracy, and a tilt sensor would be sensitive to mounting. I've come to accept that my GPS slides a bit, even with the sticky rubber mounts, when I ride over a stretch of bumpy road: no, Mr. Garmin, I'm not suddenly climbing a 40% grade. GPS and altimeter? That's just a small software addition, no extra hardware required.
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Check out Ray's reply at #318 to #317. BLUF: it is implied to be present by the statement that it's not in use.
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If I were designing a GPS, I'd stick to the GPS for distance and the barometric altimeter to calculate grade. Gyroscopes or accelerometers are ridiculously complex and expensive to get the desired accuracy, and a tilt sensor would be sensitive to mounting. I've come to accept that my GPS slides a bit, even with the sticky rubber mounts, when I ride over a stretch of bumpy road: no, Mr. Garmin, I'm not suddenly climbing a 40% grade. GPS and altimeter? That's just a small software addition, no extra hardware required.
#138
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If I were designing a GPS, I'd stick to the GPS for distance and the barometric altimeter to calculate grade. Gyroscopes or accelerometers are ridiculously complex and expensive to get the desired accuracy, and a tilt sensor would be sensitive to mounting. I've come to accept that my GPS slides a bit, even with the sticky rubber mounts, when I ride over a stretch of bumpy road: no, Mr. Garmin, I'm not suddenly climbing a 40% grade. GPS and altimeter? That's just a small software addition, no extra hardware required.
I’m always amazed at the absolute (but ill-placed) faith people put in GPS. It’s better than any positioning system we have had to date but it’s not all that accurate and the error is fairly random. For fun, start a “kitchen table” ride with your bike computer and let it run for a few hours. For not moving a millimeter, it thinks it had quite a journey albeit in a frenetic path around where it was placed. Some of the excursions as it switches over from satellites or by signal strength can be quite large.
Accelerometers are available that are highly accurate, tiny and cheap. Your cell phone and smart watch are full of them. MEMS technology is radically changing sensor technology by using semiconductor processing. So it’s very possible to put pretty sophisticated sensors in consumer electronics. In point of fact, I would bet that Garmin is using a MEMS accelerometer for fall detection among other things.
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GPS, on the other hand, is pretty bad, even awful at vertical positioning and not terrific at speed calculation. but it is stable based on position. So a barometric sensor can be used to get accurate data in the short term inside of the GPS error.
I think modern GPS has improved drastically on this. This was under heavy tree cover, with multi system mode.
Top field is elevation from the barometer, bottom is from GPS. (The two on the left are the min and max, middle zero is the grade.
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In what? I guess the 1040? You aren't being clear about what you are talking about.
Yes, that's how it works.
I suppose the barometer could be slow to react (but I don't expect that). The GPS is certainly fast enough. The calculation is trivial. So, it remains unexplained why it's slow. It's possible that it's slow related to smoothing the data over a "longer" period of time.
So, it looks like there might be one in the 1040. But it's not being used yet. So, it's not being used for elevation or whatnot.
I suppose the barometer could be slow to react (but I don't expect that). The GPS is certainly fast enough. The calculation is trivial. So, it remains unexplained why it's slow. It's possible that it's slow related to smoothing the data over a "longer" period of time.
Check out Ray's reply at #318 to #317. BLUF: it is implied to be present by the statement that it's not in use.
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Some people have enough trouble realizing maps can be wrong.
It’s better than any positioning system we have had to date but it’s not all that accurate and the error is fairly random. For fun, start a “kitchen table” ride with your bike computer and let it run for a few hours. For not moving a millimeter, it thinks it had quite a journey albeit in a frenetic path around where it was placed. Some of the excursions as it switches over from satellites or by signal strength can be quite large.
Last edited by njkayaker; 06-28-22 at 04:57 PM.
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Based on the variety of statements I made, I think it is quite clear, friend.
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Well its not just Garmin. Ive used a Karoo 2 for a year. They were generally rock solid on rides but recently I'm reading on the FB page of a lot pf folks experiencing crashes and spontaneous shutdowns mid ride. Wasn't happening a year ago, suddenly cropping up a lot. Software updates as always to blame,
*I've owned multiple 305s, 500s, 810s, 820s, 830s 1000s, 1030s and they all went to crap after warranty. My third 1030 can't keep a sensor no matter what.
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I've never had that kind of trouble with any of the 8 Garmins I've used for cycling. What are you doing with yours? I hope you got the problems sorted, Garmin has amazing service whether you're in warranty or not. They just replaced my friend's $850 watch years out of warranty because the strap broke and the watch fell 10 feet onto a boulder.
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I've never had that kind of trouble with any of the 8 Garmins I've used for cycling. What are you doing with yours? I hope you got the problems sorted, Garmin has amazing service whether you're in warranty or not. They just replaced my friend's $850 watch years out of warranty because the strap broke and the watch fell 10 feet onto a boulder.
Some of the ongoing problems were that 305s used to break battery connectors. I think Garmin replaced at least three of those. The 1000s and the 1030s all developed a rebooting problem eventually. The 800 series ones all just refused to do anything. Garmin was happy to replace all of them with refurbs but the replacements would die sooner or later, too. My latest 1030 is a replacement refurb for another replacement 1030 refurb that barely lasted a month.
I guess I’m jinxed.
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Nothing unusual. I average about 7,000 miles a year. I do ride in all kinds of weather. Who knows?
Some of the ongoing problems were that 305s used to break battery connectors. I think Garmin replaced at least three of those. The 1000s and the 1030s all developed a rebooting problem eventually. The 800 series ones all just refused to do anything. Garmin was happy to replace all of them with refurbs but the replacements would die sooner or later, too. My latest 1030 is a replacement refurb for another replacement 1030 refurb that barely lasted a month.
I guess I’m jinxed.
Some of the ongoing problems were that 305s used to break battery connectors. I think Garmin replaced at least three of those. The 1000s and the 1030s all developed a rebooting problem eventually. The 800 series ones all just refused to do anything. Garmin was happy to replace all of them with refurbs but the replacements would die sooner or later, too. My latest 1030 is a replacement refurb for another replacement 1030 refurb that barely lasted a month.
I guess I’m jinxed.
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I saw you replied to me and reread my post, I don't mean to imply you're doing something wrong and breaking your devices. I'm a software developer and "what are you doing" is shorthand for "tell me the steps that reproduce this problem." Sorry for probably wording it like a jerk.
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I saw you replied to me and reread my post, I don't mean to imply you're doing something wrong and breaking your devices. I'm a software developer and "what are you doing" is shorthand for "tell me the steps that reproduce this problem." Sorry for probably wording it like a jerk.
The funniest thing that I had was a 1000 that started showing “Walking” in a header at the top of the map page and also wouldn’t show many of the roads. It happened after a map update. The support guys at Garmin tried to fix the missing roads and get rid of the “Walking” header but finally gave up and sent me a 1030.
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#150
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This might might be an issue for measuring grade (which is measuring over fairly short distances) but for other uses (like tracking position while riding), it's greatly reduced.
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