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Another spoke broke

Old 09-15-22, 12:19 PM
  #26  
pepperbelly
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
Handbuilt by a competent builder? That sounds good to me, although hard to tell without specific models. As others have mentioned, the biggest importance is that they are tensioned correctly and evenly.
the guy here is definitely competent. He said it would have a Shimano hub but I forgot to ask which. He said the rim is basically made for tandem bikes so it should wirk well.
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Old 09-15-22, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly View Post
I was quoted $250 for a new build with a good tough rim and Shimano hub. Is that a decent price?
Gulp.

Long story. Back when I had one bike, the rear rim cracked the week before vacation. I went to my LBS, which sold me a cheap, machine-built wheel set (front and rear) for $100. Rode happily through the vacation, and about a week later, a spoke broke. I replaced the spoke, went around the wheel and tensioned, trued, and stress-relieved it, after which it rode fine for several more years.

Short conclusion: can you get a machine built wheel and have your builder finish it (tension, stress-relieve, true)? You can often get a pre-built wheel for less than the price of the parts.
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Old 09-15-22, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
Even when I've shifted into the spokes, it takes weeks to years to break all the affected spokes. After the first break in the middle, it's a good idea to replace all the affected spokes -- saves time in the long run.
Agree. The rule of thumb is that one spoke breaking is a fluke, two spokes breaking is cause for concern, and three spokes breaking means it's time to rebuild the wheel. This is in the second category, but spokes breaking in the middle is highly unusual and suggests either a batch of defective spokes or corrosion. Time to rebuild that wheel.
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Old 09-15-22, 08:23 PM
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I think I will have all of the spokes on my wheel replaced. If another breaks I will either have a wheel built or just go to the gym and lose weight before I ride again.
I do really like my bike.
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Old 09-15-22, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly View Post
I think I will have all of the spokes on my wheel replaced. If another breaks I will either have a wheel built or just go to the gym and lose weight before I ride again.
I do really like my bike.
I know/knew riders much heavier than you who got tens of thousands of miles out of similar bikes. Having new spokes properly balanced and tensioned by a skilled person should alleviate your problems.
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Old 09-15-22, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by KerryIrons View Post
Agree. The rule of thumb is that one spoke breaking is a fluke, two spokes breaking is cause for concern, and three spokes breaking means it's time to rebuild the wheel. This is in the second category, but spokes breaking in the middle is highly unusual and suggests either a batch of defective spokes or corrosion. Time to rebuild that wheel.
i had one replaced and this one broke. It looks like the previous owner had one or two replaced. I will have all of them replaced.
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Old 09-15-22, 11:00 PM
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Is there one beand that is better/stronger than other spokes?
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Old 09-15-22, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly View Post
Is there one beand that is better/stronger than other spokes?
The main brands (Sapim, DT Swiss) are about the same in my eye, and as someone already mentioned, 14g double butted is a great choice made by both of those brands. Your builder will likely insist on brass nipples as well.
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Old 09-16-22, 02:33 AM
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Just abbandon this strange 30 hole hub and adopt a modern 36 spoke brand new wheel. Conisder the following materila costs : rim 25 dollar, spokes + nipple 15 dollar, hub 25 dollar, rim tape 5 dollar. So you are looking at 70 dollar in matierlas, probably lower for a dealer. So roughly 180 in labor for a 3-5 hour job.

Simply buying a complete rear wheel is more economical.
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Old 09-16-22, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Breaking in the middle is rare, even very rare. It happens only when there's a nick or defect within the spoke.
hmmmm.... just had someone bring me in two bikes, they were both stored in his garage hanging upside down on hooks from the rims. Each bike has multiple spokes broken in the middle on both the front and rear wheels. he claims when he hung them up they were all fine, not sure how long they were hanging there..... I will post a picture and one bike had flat spokes while the other had round both bikes were built with 24 spoke rims. I'll see if I can get a shot of them before we do the repair.
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Old 09-16-22, 09:14 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly View Post
I was quoted $250 for a new build with a good tough rim and Shimano hub. Is that a decent price?
that sounds about right. Last fall I had my brand new Trek Verve 2 Disk stolen and recovered without its wheel set. It cost me 600 to have both OEM Wheels built.
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Old 09-16-22, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ign1te View Post
Just abbandon this strange 30 hole hub and adopt a modern 36 spoke brand new wheel. Conisder the following materila costs : rim 25 dollar, spokes + nipple 15 dollar, hub 25 dollar, rim tape 5 dollar. So you are looking at 70 dollar in matierlas, probably lower for a dealer. So roughly 180 in labor for a 3-5 hour job.

Simply buying a complete rear wheel is more economical.
While I'm inclined to agree with ditching this strange wheel for something with more spokes and a stronger rim, where do you find prices that low? Most quality rims go for well over $50 today, double butted spokes are over $1 each not including the nipple, and REAR hubs are almost always much more than that.
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Old 09-16-22, 10:06 AM
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I talked to my local wheel builder this morning. He said he wouldn’t be comfortable rebuilding this wheel. He really doesn’t like there being 20 spokes on one side and 10 on the other.
I am just having him build a new wheel. It will be a Shimano 105 hub and a Sun RhynoLite rim plus whatever spokes he thinks is best for me.
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Old 09-16-22, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeTBM View Post
hmmmm.... just had someone bring me in two bikes, they were both stored in his garage hanging upside down on hooks from the rims. Each bike has multiple spokes broken in the middle on both the front and rear wheels.....
You might find it interesting to read post #2 on this thread, where I describe chloride damage to stainless steel.


Also scroll down to the last paragraph of post #9, where I mention an experience identical to that of your client.
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Old 09-16-22, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly View Post
I talked to my local wheel builder this morning. He said he wouldn’t be comfortable rebuilding this wheel. He really doesn’t like there being 20 spokes on one side and 10 on the other.
I am just having him build a new wheel. It will be a Shimano 105 hub and a Sun RhynoLite rim plus whatever spokes he thinks is best for me.
That's kind of funny since that configuration should allow for more balanced tension between the two sides, but a handbuilt wheel with a Rhynolite rim and 32 or 36 spokes should be stronger than anything you can do with your old one.
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Old 09-16-22, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly View Post
I talked to my local wheel builder this morning. He said he wouldn’t be comfortable rebuilding this wheel. He really doesn’t like there being 20 spokes on one side and 10 on the other.
I am just having him build a new wheel. It will be a Shimano 105 hub and a Sun RhynoLite rim plus whatever spokes he thinks is best for me.
Sounds like your builder is not familiar with the triplet design. It is a sound system and addresses two issues. It puts two thirds of the spokes on the drive side, which on a radically dished wheel carries most of the load as well as increasing the tension on the non drive side spokes because the tension required to centre the rim is shared by fewer spokes.
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Old 09-16-22, 12:35 PM
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Here's my nickel's worth (used to be 2 cents before inflation)

The rider weight consideration is highly overblown. Riding style and road conditions are far more significant. BITD I used to build very durable wheels for tandems and loaded touring (also loaded touring tandems using the light rims of the era and 14/16g double butted spokes. These wheels would last many thousands of miles without spoke breakage, and usually die from other causes.

The arguments about strength are somewhat pointless because what we want isn't stength per se, it's toughness and durability which are different animals. Double butted spokes, properly tensioned within working range and stress relieved, will build very tough, durable wheels suited for all but the morbidly obese. Ironically, selectively going lighter can end up building a tougher wheel, ie. using fewer or thinner spokes on the left so they can be tensioned to working range without overtensioning those on the right.

Before my hiatus from BF I often mentioned that within my circle I knew gorillas who NEVER had wheel issues, and ballerinas (one literally) who were death on their wheels.

To the OP ---- there's more than one way to make lasagna, and you can and should be comfortable with your decision. Keep the MILs in the back seat, and put up a partition if necessary for your mental health.
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Old 09-16-22, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
You might find it interesting to read post #2 on this thread, where I describe chloride damage to stainless steel.


Also scroll down to the last paragraph of post #9, where I mention an experience identical to that of your client.
I truly appreciate your insight and wisdom, I will check back to them to see if they are storing chlorine in their garage, I do know they have a pool, so it is entirely possible.
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Old 09-16-22, 03:07 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by JoeTBM View Post
I truly appreciate your insight and wisdom, I will check back to them to see if they are storing chlorine in their garage, I do know they have a pool, so it is entirely possible.
Thanks.

In any case, there's no need to ask about pool chlorine, though who knows.

Usually the chlorides involved come from our old friend NaCl, aka salt.
In my case it was likely the humid salt air of Cozumel. MX.

Chloride damage in stainless steel is a well researched and documented issue.

Typically, manufactures subject finished goods to "passivation" to eliminate surface impurities and thereby improve resistance to attack. However, do not confuse resistance with immunity, which cannot be assured.

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Old 09-16-22, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Here's my nickel's worth (used to be 2 cents before inflation)

The rider weight consideration is highly overblown. Riding style and road conditions are far more significant. BITD I used to build very durable wheels for tandems and loaded touring (also loaded touring tandems using the light rims of the era and 14/16g double butted spokes. These wheels would last many thousands of miles without spoke breakage, and usually die from other causes.

The arguments about strength are somewhat pointless because what we want isn't stength per se, it's toughness and durability which are different animals. Double butted spokes, properly tensioned within working range and stress relieved, will build very tough, durable wheels suited for all but the morbidly obese. Ironically, selectively going lighter can end up building a tougher wheel, ie. using fewer or thinner spokes on the left so they can be tensioned to working range without overtensioning those on the right.

Before my hiatus from BF I often mentioned that within my circle I knew gorillas who NEVER had wheel issues, and ballerinas (one literally) who were death on their wheels.

To the OP ---- there's more than one way to make lasagna, and you can and should be comfortable with your decision. Keep the MILs in the back seat, and put up a partition if necessary for your mental health.
I am too old and thick skinned for my mental health to be in danger.
I try to get as many different opinions and points of view as I reasonably can then make up my mind.
I was at first thinking to replace just the broken spoke, then rebuild the whole wheel. I could end up with the same problem so I decided to have a new wheel built.
If the front wheel ever seems sketchy I will replace it too.

What do we do with old hubs and rims? Start a collection?
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Old 09-16-22, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly View Post
I am too old and thick skinned for my mental health to be in danger.
I try to get as many different opinions and points of view as I reasonably can then make up my mind.
I was at first thinking to replace just the broken spoke, then rebuild the whole wheel. I could end up with the same problem so I decided to have a new wheel built.
If the front wheel ever seems sketchy I will replace it too.

What do we do with old hubs and rims? Start a collection?
start a collection then go to the trade/sell forums… or look for “The Box Of Crap” threads and enter.
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Old 09-16-22, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly View Post

What do we do with old hubs and rims? Start a collection?
Some hubs make nice pencil holders. Otherwise decent raw material for creative mechanics ----- pulley or hose guide for your yard?

Rims are harder to use, though they are a great way to store tires.

Otherwise it's all scrap metal, probably of no value except in the amounts a shop might accumulate. I know of one shop that carefully saves aluminum and stainless steel until there's enough to call the scrap man. They make enough to fund a party at least once a year.

Otherwise it's the recycling bin with the beer cans

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Old 09-16-22, 11:19 PM
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If there’s a bicycle co-op near you they might be happy for the hub and rim.
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Old 09-17-22, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Some hubs make nice pencil holders. Otherwise decent raw material for creative mechanics ----- pulley or hose guide for your yard?

Rims are harder to use, though they are a great way to store tires.

Otherwise it's all scrap metal, probably of no value except in the amounts a shop might accumulate. I know of one shop that carefully saves aluminum and stainless steel until there's enough to call the scrap man. They make enough to fund a party at least once a year.

Otherwise it's the recycling bin with the beer cans
We regularly scrap for our volunteer shop. Yes we do separate aluminum from steel and make a trip to the recycle metal guy about 4 times a year. The money goes back into our parts fund account
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Old 09-27-22, 08:39 PM
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I picked up my new wheel. The rim is wider so the tire looks different-sorta wider and flatter.
There is one spot on the tire about an inch long that lightly touches one of the brake arms. It’s almost like the tire has a high spot.
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