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Loosey lefty or righty tighty?

Old 09-27-22, 10:25 AM
  #1  
wellerchap
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Loosey lefty or righty tighty?

Bought a Peugeot Optimum road bike (I'm in the UK & it's a UK spec bike, though Peugeot's obviously French).
Bottom bracket fixed cup's tighter than a camel's backside in a sandstorm.
Tried "sandwiching" on the 36mm spanner with blocks of wood/washers, hammering the spanner but it just forces itself off (open ended, not full circle tool).
Given the markings on the face of the cup (I've clarified those on the photo) is it safe to assume it's British thread & therefore clockwise to remove?
Also, the cable guide shown in the second photo - is removal simply a case of removing the central rivet, then re-rivetting once painted?
Thanks for any help.

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Old 09-27-22, 10:38 AM
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It's a left hand thread, so opposite of "normal".

Get the correct wrench-
Lay the bike on its right side and dribble in penetrating oil from the "top" and let soak for a few hours first.





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Old 09-27-22, 10:47 AM
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Peugeot traditionally was French threaded, meaning the fixed cup was right-hand thread (righty-tightie) but later Peugeots with Japanese BBs could well be English. As I recall, my ~1990 Reynolds 501 Peugeot is English. (I don't know that I ever pulled the Sugino cup out. Picked the bike up used, BB was serviceable and compatible with the crankset I put on. Only rode it about 8000 miles before retiring it.)

Yours is Shimano. I don't see any clues on it that it is not English and I would guess that BC (G?) 1.37 means English. It so, your crankset removes clockwise as viewed looking at the bike from the drive side. Lefty-loosie it isn't.

If I am right, be glad. Left pedals and fixed cups should be left hand thread so they tend to tighten through the reversed forces caused by the bearing. So decently tight is all you need to prevent loosing on the road and a real blessing at times like this. Right hand fixed cups have to be tight! just to not misbehave on the road. (I used to clamp my Peugeot's cup flange in a big bench vise and turn the frame to tighten and loosen.)
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Old 09-27-22, 10:49 AM
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1.37 is ISO/BS so this is a left-handed thread. It's neither lefty-loosey or righty-tighty, rather it's lefty-tighty and righty-loosey. You are correct: clockwise to remove. I have access to a tool similar to a VAR 30 for ornery fixed cups and it works beautifully. Another option that has worked well is to clamp the cup in a bench vise and then use the frame as leverage while turning.

Also, if you don't plan to replace the bottom bracket you can leave the cup in place.

Good luck,
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Old 09-27-22, 11:35 AM
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you can build a var 30 like tool from the hardware store

it has worked well for me. also I like freeze-off and it helps to whack what ever tool your are using to add some shock, this tool allows for adding leverage easily


from sheldon
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.htmlThe tool is an imitation of a $40 shop tool that fits into the fixed cup as a crank spindle would, and pinches the cup. You apply unscrewing force to the tool, and it transfers this force to the cup with this tight friction fit.

The tool consists of a large bolt, a nut or two, and a few washers. The size of the bolt is not particularly critical, as long as the bolt is strong enough not to break, but small enough to fit through the hole in the cup. I used to use an ordinary 1/2-inch, 13 TPI hex bolt (also called a "cap screw"), which served me well for quite a while. It finally met its match on friend's Schwinn that had an unusually tight fixed cup; the bolt snapped in two before I could remove the cup.

Now I use a 5/8-inch 18 TPI hex bolt 1 1/2inches long, with a nut, a flat washer, and four lockwashers. The 5/8-inch size is the largest standard size that will fit through the hole in the cup. This bolt and nut both take a 15/16-inch wrench. With my 1/2 inch drive Craftsman six-point socket set, the 15/16-inch socket is also the largest size that will fit into a normal bottom bracket shell.

If you have some other brand of socket, check the fit before you buy the bolt and nut-you might need the next size down (9/16-inch).
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Old 09-27-22, 02:48 PM
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Clockwise to loosen it - 1.37" is British, French would be 35mm. If you can't shift it, I've removed cups in the past by welding or brazing on a piece of scrap steel that's easier to grip (the heat probably helps too).
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Old 09-27-22, 04:24 PM
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BC 1.37 on the cup indicates English thread, so clockwise to loosen. If you can't get it loose even after blocking your 36mm tool against the cup, try the Sheldon Brown method. If that fails, you may need to take it to a shop where a shop-grade tool can be used (e.g. Campagnolo #793, VAR #30, Hozan C-358).
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Old 09-27-22, 06:11 PM
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Leave it.
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Old 09-28-22, 01:20 PM
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Thank you everyone - even SurferRosa
Had a productive day today....the bottom bracket cup came out using the pipe wrench, held in place with bolt & large washers - it was VERY tight, and was the British thread, as confirmed.
My pal & I proceeded to attack a very stuck stem - I rigged up the apparatus shown and twisting the forks with the parallel fixed batons of wood we got it to turn, after a few very loud cracking noises....a lot of twisting, levering & panting later and it was out.
Next.....the very stuck-in aluminium seatpost/steel frame tube.


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Old 09-28-22, 02:01 PM
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My dad would like. "Don't use force, get a bigger hammer."

A tool I find many uses for is a good block and tackle pull system. I used to race sailboats. Took all the gear off my last, a 15' racing dinghy. Made up an 8:1 block and tackle mounted on a short plank with a cam cleat. If I were doing this, I'd anchor the block and tackle in a convenient place, lash the other end around the stem, put in a front hub or just a QR axle and tie that off to something solid. Anchor the frame however and put one of your 2/4s in between the fork blades. Tighten the pulley and twist that 2X4.
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Old 09-28-22, 02:25 PM
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And apparently, using penetrating oil is too expensive?
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Old 09-28-22, 03:34 PM
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Lose it left, snap it right!
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Old 09-28-22, 03:44 PM
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The easiest way to break loose a frozen stem is to drive it deeper.

Do so by supporting the base of the steerer tube (under the crown) on a pipe or other brace, extending to something solid like an anvil or concrete floor. Then drive the stem in with a hammer (of course assuming the wedge has been freed). This method produces the least stress on the fork and frame, since ALL the force is isolated as a compressing of the steerer tube which can handle it.

BTW- a long soak in either ammonia, or a penetration oil formulated for corrosion is recommended before starting.

If the steerer won't budge this way, the remaining, PIA, option is the old cut and ream approach.

FWIW - the method shown isn't recommended because if the stem is at all resistant, there's a good chance of denting or buckling the top tube which, I assure you, is not designed for any concentrated force applied this way.
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Old 09-28-22, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by wellerchap View Post
I like these brute force methods ... but let it soak first.
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Old 09-29-22, 07:54 AM
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I describe thread directions as "clockwise" or "counter clockwise" and never "righty tighty". This way no mater how the wrench is placed (above or below) on the part it can be turned in the correct direction by someone who can't think things out upside down Andy
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Old 09-29-22, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
.... This way no mater how the wrench is placed (above or below) on the part it can be turned in the correct direction by someone who can't think things out upside down Andy
Righty tightly....... Is a mnemonic device to help people remember which way the screw or nut turns to tighten or loosen. But that's only half the battle. The second is that of perspective and with respect, Andy, your solution doesn't help much with that either.

People run into problems when their perspective is from an opposite angle. One example which demonstrates the problem is wheel alignment. One might find themselves turning a nipple at the opposite side of the rim from themselves. In this case tightening the spoke means turning the nipple to the left.

To help people avoid this type of error I prefer teaching the "right hand rule" ------ close your right hand with thumb pointing out and place it near the object to be turned. Now if you turn the object in the direction your fingers point, it will advance in the direction the thumb points. For left hand threads substitute your left hand.

Last edited by FBinNY; 09-29-22 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 09-29-22, 05:18 PM
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Old 09-30-22, 04:22 AM
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I found FBinNY's post (see no. 16 above) potentially very useful but hard to follow, so here's a rewording that might be helpful to anyone else who is interested in what he had to say:

Summarizing: for conventional (i.e., right hand) threading, pretend that your right hand is a screwdriver. Your thumb is the business end of the tool. The tip of your thumb is on the head of the screw, ready to turn. To tighten, turn the screw in the direction in which your fingers curl into your palm. To loosen, turn in the opposite direction.

For left hand threads substitute your left hand.

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Old 09-30-22, 05:59 AM
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If I dont true a wheel a couple of times a year I dick up the counter intuitive nature of spoke tightening and loosening....
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Old 09-30-22, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
I found the wording of the post quoted below difficult to follow. ......
OMG
The lengths some people will go to criticize and nit-pick.

It would have been easy to simply post something to the effect of ------

I offer an alternate right hand rule, which I think is easier to understand ------ followed by your screwdriver analogy.
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Old 09-30-22, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
OMG
The lengths some people will go to criticize and nit-pick.

It would have been easy to simply post something to the effect of ------

I offer an alternate right hand rule, which I think is easier to understand ------ followed by your screwdriver analogy.
Sorry! No offence meant. I've deleted all the parts of my post that you objected to.

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Old 09-30-22, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
Sorry. Absolutely no offence meant....
None was taken. And there's no need to placate me by sanitizing your post.

I was simply trying to point out the difference between a nitpicky critique and a constructive addition or improvement.

It was more a commentary about the tone in some (many?) of the posts on BF.

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Old 10-01-22, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
The easiest way to break loose a frozen stem is to drive it deeper.

Do so by supporting the base of the steerer tube (under the crown) on a pipe or other brace, extending to something solid like an anvil or concrete floor. Then drive the stem in with a hammer (of course assuming the wedge has been freed). This method produces the least stress on the fork and frame, since ALL the force is isolated as a compressing of the steerer tube which can handle it.

BTW- a long soak in either ammonia, or a penetration oil formulated for corrosion is recommended before starting.
After you've loosened the bolt. You want to drive the wedge nut deeper, not the stem.
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Old 10-01-22, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post
After you've loosened the bolt. You want to drive the wedge nut deeper, not the stem.
To clarify.

My instruction was to drive the STEM deeper into the fork, AFTER freeing the wedge, and bracing the fork crown.

In any case, it's moot as to the OP who's already freed the his stem, but I want to clarify this for anyone else who might have a similar issue.
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Old 10-04-22, 06:41 PM
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Re bb cup removal, I've only once done the "stick bb extending lip in vice and twist entire frame after putting penetrating oil in" method to work very well.

Replaced the old bb on my wife's very used commuter bike and the vice technique really made it easier.
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