LMQCycles

I’ve been reading a lot of threads regarding alignment tables / surface plates. I’ve been wondering about the Wolverine Bronze aluminum table that Doug Fattic mentions. Has anyone recently ordered one? (Some of the posts I’ve been seeing are almost ten years old.) at the price / weight it might be a great solution foe me.

Does anyone have other solutions for someone located in California and willing to drive a fair distance to get a table.

Thanks,
Kim

Doug Fattic 

I was just having a conversation with one of my former frame building class students and when he recently checked on Wolverine Bronze pricing they said a 34" X 48" cast aluminum top would run about $1500. It is ribbed underneath. The 4 legs would be an additional $400 bringing the total price to $1900. Of course then you have to get a post made. My machinist charged me around $300.

I consider my WB table to be one of the best purchases I made. I bought it as an experiment for my students that have not yet found a permanent shop home. The top weighs about 175 lbs and is easy enough to move. The legs are removable. They cast one of the pads underneath to be a little bigger so it included the hole where the post would be attached. I do prefer my 3' X 4' cast iron table because I can use magnets to hold accessories but it is extremely heavy and must weigh well over 1000 pounds. And now you have to be lucky to find one somewhere. I don't get any change in alignment measurement if I check the same frame on either one.

Of course a granite surface plate is much cheaper but then you have the problem that they are much, much heavier. When I talked to Wolverine Bronze a couple of years ago they said these tables are not nearly as popular in the car industry as they used to be because people are using a poured epoxy instead. One of my students actually made an alignment table out of MDF board and then poured this special epoxy that costs over $100 a gallon to form the top. Besides him I don't know any frame builders that have tried this method now commonly used in industry. It probably is a great way to make a table for a hobbyist but I don't have any personal experience to share.

unterhausen

granite is great stuff, but having a slab big enough is like a weight tied around your neck for the amount of time that you own it. I want to move mine into the basement, but getting it there is a real issue. And it's not as big as I want it. OTOH, people will give them to you if you can move it. Someone offered me a 3'x4'x1' slab. Haha, that thing weighs 5000lb. I would have loved to have it, no doubt

Cynikal 

Since you are in Sacramento, you can find remnant precision ground surface plate at Blue Collar Supply on occasion. I stalked them for a while for a piece big enough for a frame but ended up finding a suitable piece of granite.

unterhausen

metlaworking machine tables show up by themselves sometimes. That's not a great way to check alignment, but it works

Andrew R Stewart 

I use a steel cast 2'x3' plate, ribbed and has a 3 feet contact with the bench It's mounted on. I consider this to be the "working" minimum size with a 3'x4' allowing the complete frame to fit. Once was a time when any mid sized. or larger, city had a used machine tool dealer. Now even in the rust belt these dealers are drying up. I do frequently dream of up grading from my 2x3 so I surf eBay and Craigs List. Suitable surface plates come up a couple/three times a year lately.

Doug makes a good point about tooling. A solid BB post of a good working height isn't an off the shelf item. Much of the rest of the tooling can be self made or found in local garage sales/craigs list (here in the North East). But tooling will run a few hundred $ or more pretty quickly. I've played with the WB plate/table that Doug likes and admit it is pretty nice, not the least is it's portability. A strong 1 person could move it with some care. A tool one will keep for a long time. Andy (who really needs to get a larger plate, these new BB standards are getting too big!)

LMQCycles

Thanks for the response. Do you still offer the BB post for sale? I like the idea of this table for the size / weight combination.

LMQCycles

I like the idea of steel but I would like the bigger size with the portability (major quotes around that statement). I guess the tooling price isn't too scary after you've sunk so much into the table itself. I have been watching craigslist and haven't seen anything. Also, I haven't found anyone local that does grinding. That being said, I'm not adverse to traveling a fair distance to find a table. Thanks for the response.

LMQCycles

Thanks for chiming in. I haven't looked at Blue Collar for that specifically. I would guess that if you found something there it would be an off-size but that could work. I'll keep an eye peeled next time I'm in there. Thanks for responding.

Cynikal 

If you need to use something in the mean time. You can use my granite setup. Its not perfect but works pretty well. Always happy to meet another local builder.

8aaron8

A few years ago I looked into a 3/4" 3x4' cast mic6 aluminum plate. I was going to build a table for it and got a quote from TCI Aluminum in Hayward, CA. They quoted me $492 for the plate which seemed like a great deal. I subsequently found a 3x4' granite surface plate for less, so I never went through with it but it might be an option.

LMQCycles

Man, that's awesome! Thank you very much.

LMQCycles

Thanks! I'll look into that as well.

BigPoser

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I have an alignment table that I can make work, however it's crude and time consuming. I'd love to have something much better. I've been looking at the Bringheli table and in fact emailed them a while ago and heard nothing back. I think the Wolverine table looks great as well. I'm in Central CA and there isn't much where I am at all, and I've been searching for a while. I'll be following this thread.

Tandem Tom

Regarding Joe Bringelli. I live about 45 minutes away and I was trying to contact him. Finally heard back from his daughter. Joe is apparently having some health issues.

LMQCycles

I’m going to pull the trigger on the a Wolverine next week. I don’t know if it would help at all, but we could order two and perhaps split the shipping. The quote I got from UPS Freight is about 550 (although that is only generated from the website and who knows what the actual will be). I just really like the idea of the bigger surface and the portability of this table. it would mean a drive for one of us but it might help the cost a little.

Nessism

Sorry to hear about Joe. He must be getting quite old at this point. He helped me a great deal back in the mid-late 1990's when I first started building. I was living in Amherst at the time and would drive over to his place to buy tools/tubes and so forth. His shop was in the basement of his house and he was always welcoming to me.

Regarding alignment tables, mine is sort of a joke but does work. I bought a thick slab of steel (approx. 1.5" x 18" x 36") and had it blanchard ground flat, then I whittled out a post on my lathe. It requires rotating the frame during the build somewhat but I get buy. Total investment was relatively cheap. I'm not recommending this setup just providing a data point for those that don't want to spend a bunch of money.

Doug Fattic 

Before you place your final order I have some recommendations. 1st know what size you want and where you want the posthole to be. I recommend a size of 48” wide and 32” or even 34” tall. Mine is 48” X 32”. 36” makes me lean in/over a bit more than I like when aligning a frame. If space is at a premium you can get by okay with 45” X 30”. I like it a little larger because of how my fixture sits on the table. They have changed how they attach the legs and I really like the old way they did mine. Each leg has 4 bolts that attach it to the top. I don’t know how they do it now but it has changed. And I think it has changed to make it cheaper to manufacture. When I talked to them a year ago or more they said they can still do it the way mine was done. I also got some kind of brackets that attach to the legs that let me put a plywood shelf below. It is convenient storage.

The reason to know where they will drill the posthole is to make sure the underneath pad surrounds and supports the hole. They will drill the hole for you if you ask. Mine is just off center and they extended the casting of the pad so the hole went through the pad and wasn’t on a rib or in a valley. My posthole is 660mm (about 26”) from the left edge and 80mm up from the bottom edge. I align a frame with the head tube left so the drive side of the BB is down. My hole is 1” but if I was doing it again I would make it ½” My post extends through the pad and accepts a nut on the other side to attach it to the table. I did it that way because my cast iron table from England was done that way. Now I would use a ½” bolt (or a M12) starting from the underside and attaching it to a threaded hole in the post.

Mine was painted blue but one of my student’s got his in yellow.

Homebrew01

I built a frame jig "on the cheap" by buying an aluminum slab about 3 foot square from a local metal work place. I used it as a base to mount various home-made tube holders & clamps.
Perhaps bigger pieces are available as a cheaper alternative ?

BigPoser

Sorry man, I just saw this. I've been getting my butt kicked at work out of state. I'm not quite ready to place an order just yet. I've got to handle a few things first before I'm ready for that. Keep me posted though.

LMQCycles

Cold setting with an aluminum table?

I’m curious if anyone has thoughts on this. It seems like this might be a drawback, but I don’t know if the force placed on the frame and transferred to the fixtures would damage the aluminum surface. If you have an aluminum alignment table are you taking measurements there and then removing the frame to make adjustments?

Thanks

unterhausen

you aren't going to bend an aluminum table. I have worried a little about my granite table, the available inserts for the posts are pretty close to the edge