bluetomgold

I'm currently rebuilding an old French cyclotouriste / porteur bike and would like to set it up with a hub gear.

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ighlight=vitex

I was initially thinking about an old AM hub as the closer ratios should be good for London cycling - it's mostly fairly flat where I ride. I don't need a wide range of gears but want a bit more versatility than I'd get from a singlespeed. I've found a couple of sources for reconditioned hubs. I know from experience that the older SA hubs are more reliable than those made in the 70s/80s and the only issues would be finding a suitable 40H rim, and the dropout spacing (118mm), which would likely need a couple of washers.

However, I've been hearing good things about modern SA hubs and that's got me thinking. A 36H hub would open up a wider range of rims and if a newer hub offers better performance and equal reliability, that's probably the way to go.

What are people's experiences? Any recommendations for a medium/close ratio modern hub? Or should I stick with plan A and get an AM?

bluetomgold

Anyone?

bikamper

If you can find an AM hub, the innards will fit in an 36 hole AW shell, so that negates the need for a 40 hole rim.

The only real drawback to the AM is that certain parts, such as the gear ring, are specific to it and quite rare. That said, a 50 year old AM should be good for another 50.

bluetomgold

Thanks, sounds like a good option. Will the axle be wide enough for my dropouts if washers are added?

mparker326

From the parts diagram, https://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/sa/saam.pdf for the AM, I think you are going to have a hard time making the axle fit in a 118 frame. The AW had 2 axles a 5 3/4 & 6 1/4. The 6 1/4 was used for 120 spacing. It looks like the AM only has a 5 3/4. It is a different part number than the AW axle, so I'm not sure you could replace the axle with a AW one. You could cold set your from down to 110.

What size rims are you planning on using? I'd keep the AM shell even if it was 40 holes. Part of the joy of having a AM hub is letting others know you have an AM hub and not have it disguised inside the more common AW hub. There are plenty of rims with 40 holes if you are going 700c. I've even found 40 hole 27 inch rims. Good luck

rhenning

As a 15 year old in 1964 I had to regularly replace planet gears in an AW hub from just riding it off road. Maybe two or three a year. That will be the part that breaks. Would not be my choice especially at the weights you are talking about. Roger

bluetomgold

Thanks!

I'm actually looking at having an AM hub built from NOS parts. It will be fitted inside a used hub shell, and my supplier may not be able to find an original AM shell - so it will be no great tragedy if an AW shell is used. Rims will be either 650A or 650B. 40H rims are not impossible but I'm yet to find a local supplier, and also finding a matching 36H rim for the front may prove tricky. If he can turn up an original AM shell I will use 40H rims.

I will ask my source if he's able to build one with a 6 1/4" axle. 5 3/4" will be very tight, leaving perhaps 3/8" of thread on each side...

Thanks Roger, interesting stuff. Although this bike will not regularly be heavily laden. I don't plan on using it for serious loaded touring. I weigh around 150lbs, and the bike itself will be relatively lightweight and mainly used on fairly flat roads. It's not going to work that hard - although I do enjoy riding fast. What would you suggest as a more rugged option. Would newer SA hubs be any better, or how about an SRAM P3?

tatfiend 

SRAM 3 speed hubs are all wide range like the AW unfortunately. The closest thing to a narrow step hub at a reasonable price these days is the Shimano 7 speed which has a overall range of about 250%. This overall range is about the same as the current SRAM P5 or the latest Sturmey Archer 5 speed hubs so the steps are smaller. The steps are also more even than on the Shimano 8 speed hubs. Hubstripping.com really likes the relatively even steps per their web site.

Narrow and medium range hubs intended for sports riders ceased production when the derailleur started taking over from the geared hub on sports bikes in GB, basicallly in the late 50s to the 1960s or so per my understanding. Sachs market was always utility bikes so far as I know so they never made any narrow or medium range hubs that I am aware of.

rhm

Re. the 40H rim... you can lace a 40H hub to a 32H rim.

Altmangf

I think this may be relevant to your interests.
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17531.msg314519

Also, S/A is making (going to make) a nice thumb/downtube and bar end shifter.

https://www.sturmey-archer.com/produc...rs/cid/3/id/10
https://www.sturmey-archer.com/produc...rs/cid/3/id/11

Gabe

bluetomgold

I found those too. Good relevant links though - thanks!

Altmangf

The new S/A AW and S-RF3(alloy shell AW) have revised internals. The clutch design has been improved, and they should not have the 'between gear' positions. I've build a few wheels using the new alloy 3 speed and it works well. The flanges are nice and thick. It does not seem to slip in high gear, as some of my older hubs will do under very heavy load. I run most of my A/W equipped bicycles (26x1-3/8 tire) with a 22T cog and a 46T chainring. In relatively flat Florida, this provides a good mix of gears, especially when facing a headwind carrying a load of groceries up a slight grade.

https://www.sturmey-archer.com/userfi..._Speed_Hub.pdf

bluetomgold

Thanks everyone for all the input. I picked up an older 36 hole AW hub which looks like it will fit fine in the rear dropouts with the addition of a couple of spacing washers. However I am thinking about a newer S-RF3 or an AM as both closer ratios and the avoidance of accidental "neutral" is appealing. For the time being the build still has a way to go so I'll see how I'm getting on when I'm ready to have the back wheel built up. I'll see how much I've spent and what's left in the bank! What I may do, is try to borrow an AM equipped rear wheel from a friend and see how i get on with it before building up the rear wheel. Ah, decisions!

Grand Bois

I built a bike around an S-RF3 and I love it. There is no neutral position. There is no oil seepage. Spoke washers are not necessary.

I just finished building a wheel with a SA5-2. I found that it was necessary to use double spoke washers with DT Competition spokes. I haven't tried it yet because the frame is waiting for paint.

tcs

The 26 x 1 3/8 (ISO590) Sun CR-18 rim is available in 32, 36 and 40 spoke hole versions.

The dual-indicator-chains Sturmey S5 hubs can be nice.

For an inexpensive, narrow OLD, close ratio hub, try the modern Sturmey-Archer XRF8(W).

tcs

bluetomgold

Yes, but I can't find a supplier in the UK or Europe. With shipping and duty from the US they are going to be expensive. If anyone knows better I'd love to hear, as they do look like nice rims.

I must admit I haven't really considered more than 3 gears. It's an interesting idea, although it would mean I'd need to put an (ugly) modern shifter on the bike. An S5 might be a good option, although it's still geared (sorry) more towards wide than close ratios. An XRF8(W) is probably overkill. Either would be quite a bit pricier than any of the 3 speed options.

I think it's between the S-RF3, the AW and an AM. I'll decide later.

tcs

The center gears are narrower ratios than either your candidate AW or SRF3 hubs. Old S5 hubs aren't that expensive - certainly quite a bit less than a new SRF3 in the USA, anyway. But it sounds like you already closed the books on what you're willing to consider.

tcs

bluetomgold

No, not necessarily. I appreciate your suggestion, and must admit I hadn't looked carefully at the ratios. I will be keeping my eyes open for a used S5 and if one turns up at the right price I'll consider it. How are they in terms of reliability, shifting, false neutrals etc?

bluetomgold

What about this?

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/STURMEY-ARCHER...item45f1b1764e

bluetomgold

Been reading Sheldon's servicing article on the S5. He suggests:

• For the right side cable, it's best to use a standard 3-speed trigger, cable and indicator spindle.
• For the left side cable, it's best to use a friction-type derailer shifter of some sort. There are only two positions, tight and loose, so there's no need for any sort of "indexing" on the left cable. It is also possible to use two of the positions of a three-speed trigger for the left cable, but adjustment becomes rather finicky.

Sounds like fun. I could have a Sturmey lever on the bars and a nice friction lever on my single down tube boss.

• The right lever or trigger selects underdrive, direct drive or overdrive, just as with the AW and other 3-speed models.
• The left lever selects between narrow range 3-speed and wide range 3-speed. When the cable is loose, it's narrow range; when the left cable is tight, it's wide range.

Sounds pretty nifty actually.

wahoonc

Also just to throw some more confusion into the discussion...you can convert the FW/FG hubs to 5 speed, they will work just like the S5. Using the standard 3 speed click shifter and a friction on the left side. I haven't done the conversion myself, but know a couple of people that have. I have an FG that is going to get the conversion because it doesn't have the 2 part indicator rod and they are hard to find and expensive when you do.

Aaron

Grand Bois

My S-RF3 cost me $53 and came with all hardware, including a shifter. My S5-2 cost me considerably more.

I the S-RF3 is a great looking hub, especially if you remove the logos.

bluetomgold

Indeed. Best price I can find in the UK is around £60 though... $53 is a steal! Where?

Grand Bois

I got mine at Aebike about 3 years ago. Any shop that can order from QBP can get it. The price has gone up quite a bit, unfortunately. I didn't like the shifter that came with it so I'm using a vintage trigger shifter.

My S5 came from the UK. It was expensive, but I wanted it badly. I think I paid just around 60 British Pounds for it, plus shipping. It's from 1982, but it shows no signs of use. I have the original stem shifters, but I think I'll use a trigger shifter on the right and a Suntour ratcheting thumb shifter on the left.

bluetomgold

I like the gearing options that you get with an S5, but having thought about it, it's the simplicity of a 3-speed that attracted me to a hub gear. I don't want two cables! What I really want is an AM but I suspect an S-RF3 may be the more sensible option...