Iride01 

How are they making your bike heavier?

What is a heavy bike to you? My bike with disc brakes is certainly lighter than the bikes I've had previously.

Sure they might add a tad more weight, but it's not that much. I probably could have been 16.9 lbs instead of 17.5 lbs..... maybe.

Koyote

Only if you're running Campy...And even then, you could buy aftermarket pads for far less.

If you're running SRAM or Shimano, you're still full of nonsense.

Either way, you were off by, at minimum, ah, lemme carry the two, umm...100%.

PeteHski

Improving braking performance for a minor weight penalty is not really counter-intuitive. It's just a small compromise that may not happen to suit your particular needs.

mschwett 

i am somewhat curious what non-professional really cares about a bike being +/- 300g heavier. maybe it’s an outlier but when i look at high end road bikes which came both disc and rim (e.g. tarmac sl6) the difference isn’t very significant. horses for courses though; i’ll admit to being a bit of a weight weenie but i also do a lot of descending in the fog… on my 6.3kg bike with disc brakes 😂

Chandne

I think a disc frame and the brakes' addition weight is around 200-300 grams. That I can handle since I have long and steep descents.

Seattle Forrest

​​​​​​Kind of like how aero frames, wheels, etc are always heavier and almost always faster. Thinking of weight as the one important aspect of a bike is crazy.

AlgarveCycling

Weight-penalty is a red herring; the Pro's are on disc-braked bikes that meet the regulatory 6.8kg - they couldn't go lighter if they wanted to and they have zero weight penalty because...6.8kg.

Aero can create a weight penalty but this is more than offset by the speed benefits it brings.

Discs need more maintenance and mean slightly slower wheel changes. Pro's can get around both via bike swaps and mechanics to fix stuff after every ride. Not nearly as big a deal as some would like to imagine and to blame the loss of a race on a wheel change/bike change due to discs is nonsense. Pro teams aren't stupid, if they have a rider who can win or podium, they have spare bikes to avoid changing a wheel. If there is no great time issue, the speed they can change a disc wheel is actually not nearly as slow as some think.

For the rest of us, we can have discs and bikes lighter than the UCI limit if we want. However, if we choose mid-range where a weight penalty would be apparent, the speed difference for non-Pro's is very negligible but the stopping power is very useful.

seypat

Maybe the title of the thread should be changed to something like:

More bashing of Froome disc bashing.

PeteHski

Can't say I've noticed either of these factors. What extra maintenance are we talking about?

AlgarveCycling

Ok...I set my brake calliper's with new pads and I only need to adjust over time to allow for pad wear - so not very often.

My road bike disc's on the other hand can stick at any time. Sand, grit - all manner of things on the road can cause them to rub, squeal and cost watts. I have to strip the disc pads out and clean them nearly every week. Obviously, I could put up and ignore but I don't. The tolerances for a good disc set up are closer than pads, typically, so it only takes a small bit of dirt to cause rub that then needs sorting out.

Ask any race mechanic, discs are high maintenance.

I raced my MTB on Monday, the disc pads were rubbing halfway through, very annoying, I had to finish the race like that. Still, especially for MTB racing, I wouldn't be without discs, the stopping power is invaluable.

I do 400-500km per week/ 20000km+ per year - obviously the more you use something the more you will find out how stuff deals with increased usage.

You say "neither of these things" which includes time for wheel changes. Again, for folks not concerned about fast changes during a race, it is negligible. In race conditions, loosening a skewer is quicker than dealing with a thru-axle if you want every second to count. Thus the emphasis upon replacement bikes if seconds are in play.

I am talking from the perspective of someone who rides a fair bit under training and racing load - others who are riding for commuting, leisure, general fitness and pleasure may find these concerns lessened somewhat by not being so concerned with tolerances and time.

PeteHski

I suppose I'm only riding about half of your weekly volume and I tend to avoid riding in crappy weather unless I have to. So I don't get any of these issues either on my mtb or road bikes. For sure riding in muddy conditions causes pad rub, squealing and very rapid wear, but then rim brakes are hardly ideal in such conditions.

Sy Reene

Besides, an industry attempt at mitigating the increased weight of discs is prompting the relaunch of hookless rims. It'll all work out just fine.

smashndash

This isn't true anymore. Disc brakes, electronic groupsets, aero framesets, integrated cables and the switch to tubeless clinchers have each added weight to the archetypal UCI race bike. If you watch bike checks for modern UCI WT bikes, they're closer to 7.1 to 7.4kg with cages, pedals etc.


Alaphillippe's Sl7 weighs 7.26kg. And the SL7 is on the lighter end. Some aero framesets + wheels will add something like 300-400g on top of this.

Not saying that this means the bikes are bad. But it's simply not true that they are hitting the weight limit.

WhyFi

It's a good thing that we have fine folks like you that can see through the murky machinations of Big Bike.

AlgarveCycling

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/8583/canyo...ace-legal-bike

Movistar's climbing bike. Needs ballast.

Shop around, you can get bikes that need weights added to meet the 6.8kg otherwise they would be too light at the weigh-in. The example in the link of Canyon's Ultimate CFR is 6.54kg. I was training with a Pro who is sponsored by Wilier in Feb - his bike is just a tad over 6.8kg.

For sure, bikes have different weights according to size, this has always been the case so larger bikes will weigh more. True too that the aero bikes will also weigh a bit more, circa 7.2-7.5kg, especially the TT bikes which will push to over 9kg.

But there are many bikes in the WorldTour peloton that are very close to the 6.8kg limit with discs. You and I can get them much lighter - we can get disc bikes with PM's and pedals close to 6kg.

Iride01 

I took it as satire and that he had a big grin on his face when he wrote it. Just simply for the weight weenie savings of weight by removing the hooks from the beads it would be priceless on that alone.

Otherwise, I'm taking back that like I gave him!

smashndash

Not aero, not integrated, and the 6.54kg number is quoted without pedals or cages, so you're pretty much at 6.8. I'm not arguing that it's impossible to build a disc brake bike under 6.8kg. Not sure where you're getting that.

The fact is that the bikes most teams deem optimal are over the weight limit, and that's partially due to disc brakes being heavier than rim brakes. So "most bikes need ballast anyway" is not a valid defense of the weight penalty of disc brakes. Their safety, improved braking performance, and the flexibility they afford in rim and tire selection etc. are.

WhyFi

Nah - he likes to hate-watch the goings on of hookless and then tell users of hookless how bad and confusing and dangerous it is, as we ho-hum our way to several thousand trouble-free miles on them per year.

Iride01 

OH... I sure hope that's not what's being done. But maybe you are correct.

I too have had many thousands of trouble free miles on the hookless rims of my Schwinn's from the 70's

Sy Reene

Hardly.. My last input for someone considering hookless. New Wheelset Req'd I don't see it as hateful, but then I'm not sooo invested.

AlgarveCycling

Re-read my posts

I never wrote "most bikes need ballast anyway" Stop projecting.

You are specifically using aero bikes - focusing only upon those. I claimed in my original post that disc brakes adding weight to be a bother is a red herring; this is true. Why? Pro teams are using 6.8kg bikes; it is an absolute fact that they are! Ok, let's go pedantic - many aren't where they have opted only for aero bikes and no other. Did you read in my post where I did note that aero bikes weigh more? No, you glossed over that. Teams that use climbing bikes alongside aero have 6.8kg machines in their ranks.

The point I made is this: disc-braked bikes can and are able to meet the 6.8kg limit. This is irrefutable. Pro's have these 6.8kg bikes available to them - Pro's use them. The fact we can get complete bikes with discs at closer to 6kg proves my point even more - discs are not preventing bikes from weighing 6.8kg or less. That is my point! You then claimed this wasn't true anymore by choosing aero bikes, integrated etc. I never mentioned aero, integrated etc as being 6.8 and specifically noted "aero can create a weight penalty".

Canyon's Ultimate CFR example is 6.54kg, yes, Add pedals etc and you get to around 6.8kg as you have agreed. Ridden by Movistar in the mountains. 6.8kg. Exactly what I wrote! Pro teams have light bikes, despite discs. Disc's are not creating heavy bikes, bikes are still light, can still meet the UCI limit.

WhyFi

I lol'd when I saw that post - that was some nice, unintentional comedic value.

Dave Mayer

Trek's Emonda SLR 9 with rim brakes come in at a weight of 5.88 kg or 12.96 lbs.. So a 6.8kg disc brake bike is porky.

Note that the Emonda comes stock with clincher (tubeless) yuck wheels. Putting on carbon tubulars, as befits a pro-level bike, would reduce the total weight to 12 pounds.

So discs have a major weight penalty (frame, fork, wheels), they are fussy, feature glacial wheel changes, and and are ultimately unnecessary on a road bike. Since Froome is the most accomplished and untouchable entity on the pro tour, he can express his opinion honestly, unlike the rest of the peloton, who ride what they are given and shut their mouths about it. Actually they are required to complement and promote their sponsors, no matter what crap they are given, and whenever there is an equipment failure, they have to take the blame as 'user error'.

After all, cycling exists to sell expensive new bling to dentists with platinum cards.

tomato coupe

There is no Emonda listed on Trek's website that has rim brakes.

GhostRider62

Wrong.

You just have to build it up yourself.

I considered just that and still might.