Stroudy 

Hey everyone,

Recent newcomer to tandem cycling here.

I want to upgrade my cantilever brakes (and possibly the drum brake) after our ride at the weekend - trying to stop on a moderate downhill was precarious!! Argh!

I was thinking my best alternative is installing V-Brakes, but what do you guys think? What are my options, for brakes and drum or hub brakes

Sorry, I would post some pics but as a newbie I'm limited for now

Stroudy 

It's an Arai drum brake btw

Stroudy 

Oh, and I'm running 700/32 Tyres

Alcanbrad

We have cantilever brakes on our first tandem and when we moved to a very hilly area, they were definitely not enough. I added an Arai drum which helped a lot, then I replaced the canti's pads with a good quality set (It's been 15 years, but it was probably from Kool Stop at the time) which made a huge difference. If the pads are old, or of unknown origin, you might consider a set of good quality pads first. I haven't purchased pads for cantilevers since then, but for my half bikes, I only go with SwissStop. I am sure others on the forum can recommend the best options on the market today.

reburns

I have become a big fan of SwissStop green pads. Might try those first, then switch to v-brakes if the cantilevers still aren’t giving enough power. But with v-brakes you may need to add travel agents or use mini-Vs depending on your levers. I clean the shoes and drum of the Arai periodically with rubbing alcohol. Make sure your rims are clean too, of course. I added a brake arch to one bike, but that was for squeal elimination vs power improvement. On my tandems with V-brakes and SwissStop green pads, I have plenty of stopping power. The drum is only used to eliminate the risk of rim overheating on long, steep descents.

Freerojo

I just upgraded to Tektro 926 Mini v brakes. You might want to also consider buying the Shimano in-line brake release so that you can pull off the noodle. Check what I did here: https://www.bikeforums.net/tandem-cy...-complete.html

Leisesturm

It would be immensely helpful to know the make and model and maybe even the year (if known) of the tandem. I personally think the stopping power of: Canti's, V-Brakes and Mechanical Disc Brakes are all more or less equal. That being said, I bought a Burley Samba used (~92) and immediately changed the canti's to Shimano LX-V's (v-brakes). The bike as bought did not have fenders, but I planned on putting on fenders. Canti's clear wide fenders very well but LX-V's clear any possible fender that would fit under the brake bridge of a Burley Samba. The Arai drum I did not do anything about. I had planned to remove it. Whether or not a team needs a drag brake depends on what they intend to do with the tandem and the terrain.

Large diameter discs are being used in the rear of tandems as drag brakes. Whether discs in the rear only or both front and rear are used will depend on the bike and whether it has the proper caliper mounts. That is why we need to know the make and model. I don't think I would lose a wager that your frame does not have disc caliper mounts. TL;DR. Your brakes are probably fine. New pads (Kool Stop Salmon?) would be a logical first step. Proper adjustment, of course. Enjoy the tandem as is for awhile before spending money (time is money). Even a seemingly simple ̶u̶p̶g̶r̶a̶d̶e̶ change to v-brakes will require new brake levers.

Stroudy 

I can't use links until I post 6 more times but I reply here a few times and then post some pics

Stroudy 

I can't use links until I post 5 more times

ReidH

Hi, As already stated, the make, model of tandem and the make model of brakes will help. If you are new to the tandem, the pads should be replaced as ASAP and te brakes checked out to ensure they are operating correctly.
Again, I agree that there is little to argue about in braking power between V-brakes and cantilevers. They both have their pros and cons.
Now if the two cantilevers are actuated by one brake lever, then there is a big improvement to be had by having them actuate on separate brake levers.
Please confirm how the cantilevers and teh drum are currently actuated on your tandem.

The Arai drum is a drag brake. Don't count on it to bring you to a stop.

Reid

Stroudy 

Hi, sorry - I didn't realise there would be a 5 post limit too. However - I'm a premium member now - whoo

I don't know the year, but it's a Super Galaxy. Below are some pics of the brakes... (sorry the pics are so large)

I've swapped out the drop bars for straight and changed the downtube shifters for a couple of sram (Shimnano pull ratio) grip shifters.

I still have a Dual pull lever for the cantis and one for the drum, but I may change that and put in a friction thumb shifter for the drum and singles for the rim brakes. Which, upon the anecdotal advice here, I'll probably change to linear pull v-brakes. Shimanos look good for the price.

Re: the drum - I'll try cleaning and sanding the internal pads, but are there any upgrades I can make here? How are other drum brakes viewed? Like the Sram I-brake for dutch bikes?

I live in north London, so I don't have any long descents (1km max), do I need the drum? I currently have a 6-speed freewheel, but I'm considering upgrading that (grips shifters can do 8-speed) - I could potentially make room for the extra sprockets from the drum side, or even cold set the frame spacing? I'm open to all kinds of suggestions.

Thank you all for your help - I'm so pleased with the response you've all given

Trevtassie

They look like cheapie brake pads, try some Koolstops or Swisstops in 70mm insert holders.

tandem rider

I agree with reburns about cleaning with rubbing alcohol and the recommendations to try different brake pads. Your braking power with those brakes are sensitive to adjustment of the straddle cable. You might find an online source that explains how to adjust them.

Leisesturm

The downtube shifters and 6sp freewheel date back to the late 80's. On the upside, a brand like Dawes would ensure a solid build. On the downside, there isn't much, if any 'upgrading' that can be done to a bike this old. Are the wheels 27" or the newer 700C diameter? Are they steel??? Get out a magnet and go check. Steel frames are beloved by many. I personally don't care one way or another. Steel rims ... no, just no. Not even Kool Stop pads can do anything with steel rims. They don't look like steel rims, but bikes from that time period were known to have them, so find that magnet. I pulled up a few pictures of your bike. I'm having a hard time picturing a flat-bar conversion. Did you also change the stem? How were you able to continue using the stock brake levers?

It doesn't sound like you need the Arai drum (drag) brake. Removing it lightens the bike by about 25lbs. But it's presence on a tandem confers validation that it is in fact a real tandem. Our Trek does not have a drag brake, doesn't need a drag brake, but ... ... anyway, the choice is yours. The other brake you linked appears to need a special hub as well. I wouldn't do it. To be honest, with a bike like this, I wouldn't do anything with the Shimano cantilevers either. They look to be in good shape. The straddle cable looks to be the right length. Even the pads don't look too bad. But they aren't Kool Stop Salmons. I might change the saddles and maybe the pedals (for clipless) but if I wanted to throw upgrade money at a project bike I would start with one from the early to mid-90's with 700C wheels and at least 8sp freewheel or cassette drivetrain.

WheelsNT

+1 on change the pads. Koolstop or Swissstop.

Here’s a well-known resource on canti setup: https://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html

Absolutely move the drum to a thumbshifter and put the cantis each on their own lever. The drum is a drag brake that you will apply to a level and leave at that level until you are done descending. It is not intended to stop the bike, just to control your speed and safely dissipate heat. When you have the drum applied, you are using up some of your rear tire’s traction, but not using any of the front tire’s traction. If you need to apply the cantis while the drum is applied, and they are both on the same lever, you may unexpectedly skid the rear tire while not using all the front braking you have. With the cantis on separate levers, you can apply the front fully and the rear partially when applying while using the drum.

Stroudy 

25lbs HAGAGAHGAHAA - yeah that rear wheel sure is heavy right now. I've taken some pics of the bar changes - my wife/stoker had a lower back issue and is comfortable in a my upright position.

I can't take the rear wheel off right now, but I think the OLD is 135. I'm considering a cold set and new rear wheel/wheel build, but I'm still not sure that is at all possible. Ideally I'd respace the spindle on the existing 40hole hole hub. If I scrape the drum brake I could fit an 8-speed freewheel easily - I believe

I spent some time watching RJ The bike guy and Park Tools adjust these things. I reckon I've got them adjusted as well as can be. Different pads may be worth a try, but I may just fit the v-brake - for the cost involved I may as well. Plus I get to tinker with the bike

Well, the swissstops on my carbon rims work amazingly well, so yeah - I'd go with them

Stroudy 

Sorry - steel frame, allow rims says the magnet 🧲 Hahahah

reburns

The Arai, although no longer made, is still the gold standard for drag brakes. It weighs 2 lbs. If you don’t need it for long steep descents, you can remove it to lighten the bike and if you decide to sell it you might be surprised at how much they go for. If instead you want to keep it on the bike, it should be controlled from a friction lever such as a bar end shifter. Ours are actually controlled by the stoker. Moving the cantilevers to independent lever control should help your braking immensely. I like v-brakes, but I would try to make the cantilevers work first to avoid the complications of travel agents or tight tolerances of mini-Vs.

ReidH

Hi, nothing wrong with the steel frame. Keep the drum, Probably not much need in North London, but you may go somewhere with some steeper longer hills.
Split the cantis onto the left and right levers and add a bar end to actuate the drum. Good pads are a must and test the braking after the changes. Should be at least twice as good as the existing setup.
the bike is recent enough that there are good upgrade possibilities if you want to to.
The tires look to be 700c so you have good upgrade possibilities.
You can upgrade to a 7 speed freewheel if currently a 6 speed.

Reid

base2 

On the brake lever, is there a way to select the pull ratio to match the brakes you have?

It the lever is set to "mountain" (meaning: linear pull) & you have "road" pull, (meaning: cantilever, which your bike currently has) then the brakes will feel firm & give every indication of working well but not actually have the leverage to effect a stop.

IME: Aftermarket flat bar replacement brake/shift levers like you have are usually set to linear pull mountain by default. Check and see if the pull ratio can be selected & select road/canti.

BTW: +1 on the Koolstop pad recommendations.

Stroudy 

What cable should I use? Gear cable to fit the shifter?

I think the levers I bought are actually linear pull. I can't get the front cantis lined up AND equalise on the rim, so I think I'm going for the v-brake option. The levers I bought are linear pull anyway. Here's the twin pull lever, which I'll use as a single or replace

Yeah - I upgraded the tires to some Schwalbe marathon 35. I'm considering a wheel upgrade perhaps. You don't think I'd have to change the spacing on the wheel to fit a 7 speed?

I can't change them to Road pull, so it makes sense to get the v-brakes. What you said rings true re: lack of leverage.

Thanks for all the help again, people

Leisesturm

Yep, you have to use gear cable to fit the shifter, the clamp at the caliper end doesn't care as much about the kind of cable it is.

That was a good call by the other poster. I completely missed that you were using v-brake levers with essentially road pull calipers. So, I guess v-brakes are in your future. You may find that they don't line up and equalise either. The wheel may not be perfectly centered in the fork.

If the OLD of that frame really is 135mm you have the whole world of MTB standard wheels to choose from. It isn't tandem spec but, really, it doesn't matter. At that point it wouldn't even be worth it to stop at 7sp. 8? 9? It doesn't start getting expensive until after 10sp. Go crazy.

LV2TNDM

Those brakes are high quality and look like Shimano XT level. I just overhauled a pair of XT cantilevers and the result was excellent. I think you should get excellent performance and brake response if properly refurbished.

But I'd put my money on the old brake pads and cables & housing. Over time, the rubber brake pads harden and get less compliant and grippy. This alone might be the fix. Upgrade to SwissStop or KoolStop should make a good improvement. Plus, the Shimano pads have always been prone to picking up rim debris and getting it embedded in the pads. How many times have I had to pick pieces of Al out of Shimano pads?!!!

As cable housing ages, it develops more and more friction over time. For a tandem rear brake, this can be crucial. New cables & housing all around should give you much better brake response. Try to find "compressionless" housing, even though the moniker is a bit misleading. All housing intends to be compressionless, so there's that. But some is better than others. I haven't experimented with it because I find if I do a fastidious job ensuring cable lengths, throws, and curves are ideal as well as housing ends cut and ground flat and perpendicular tends to result in great set up. Use proper ferrules (housing ends) and ensure everything fits snugly and properly in all the cable stops.

Now the cantis themselves need to be overhauled. Pull them all apart, clean & remove old grease, then reassemble with appropriate waterproof grease and this should return them to their original glory. Make sure the springs are properly seated in the appropriate places (SLR vs. Normal, proper canti hole). Also, canti setup is important as well and can be easily screwed up, resulting in sub-optimal performance. The straddle cable length and angle are very important. Too obtuse and you lose leverage, too acute and you have too much sponge. So straddle length and brake pad position are crucial. Plus, you have to achieve proper set up to avoid pad dive below the rim - a definite risk given the high braking loads seen on tandems. This while also avoiding setting up too high and risking tire contact and blow out.

You definitely want an expert old-school mechanic doing this work. Some new kid who has only seen disc brakes is NOT what you want!

Given all the above, if your hands lack size or strength to brake hard enough and long enough for two people on a tandem, then consider v-brakes. They offer more leverage at the brake, so hand strength isn't as crucial. But this entails changing levers or introducing a cable-throw and leverage modifier to accommodate the v-brakes.

Good luck!

PS Sorry, skipped some of the intermediary posts and yes, those brake levers look like they're intended for v-brakes. Too much pull and not enough leverage for cantilevers. Probably best to upgrade to v-brakes.

And I'd avoid going with a dual-pull lever in your case. This muddles the brake situation too much. If you're having problems applying enough brake force and stopping, you don't want one lever operating two brakes. One lever per rim brake to optimize stopping power. Keep the drag brake separate and on a thumbshifter. The Arai is for scrubbing speed, not actual stopping. Rim brakes do that and should do so effectively.

Stroudy 

Thank you for such a detailed response. I've ordered the v-brakes and koolstop salmons. All the cable housing is actually in very good shape. I gave them a spray with some PTFE anyway

After giving the rims a rub down with isopropyl (as suggested here) AND separating the front and rear on to their own levers, she's already braking a lot better.

Next steps would be to treat some of the rust spots on the frame and maybe replace the forks - but will probably just ride these out until we get a whole new tandem.

Thanks to @Leisesturm too. I may well consider an 8-speed MTB rear wheel and forgo the drag brake. (8 because my grip shifter are 8)

I'll update with pics and results

Stroudy 

Just want to say a big thank you to the contributors on this thread. V-brakes with the Koolstop salmon pads are amazing. Immense stopping power - I feel so much safer on the Tandem now.

Now I have a reoccurring puncture problem, but I'll get another thread started there.

Cheers all