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1963 Schwinn Paramount

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1963 Schwinn Paramount

Old 04-25-20, 01:55 PM
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Narhay
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1963 Schwinn Paramount

This is a bit of a hodgepodge of parts and it sort of looks like a repaint but I am not a schwinn expert. What do you think of this 1963 Schwinn Paramount P12 ? What would have been oem components?













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Old 04-25-20, 02:02 PM
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Campagnolo no-Record high flange hubs, early Record headset (smooth with one line across each cup's perimeter), early Weinmann 999's with the cast-in lettering, a Stronglight Competition No. 55 cottered steel crankset, and a Campagnolo Gran Sport steel RD.

The Paramount lettering on the right side seems a bit off in positioning, but the one thing that stands out is that there isn't any pinstriping around the lugs. Even P12s with painted lugs usually had pinstriping along with the box lining.

-Kurt
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Old 04-25-20, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
Campagnolo no-Record high flange hubs, early Record headset (smooth with one line across each cup's perimeter), early Weinmann 999's with the cast-in lettering, a Stronglight Competition No. 55 cottered steel crankset, and a Campagnolo Gran Sport steel RD.

The Paramount lettering on the right side seems a bit off in positioning, but the one thing that stands out is that there isn't any pinstriping around the lugs. Even P12s with painted lugs usually had pinstriping along with the box lining.

-Kurt
Yes I thought the lugs were either lined or chrome but not plain like this.

There should also be words under the logo on the seat tube decal. Arnold schwinn & company.
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Old 04-25-20, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Narhay
Yes I thought the lugs were either lined or chrome but not plain like this.
I'm pretty sure you could order a P12 with chrome fork ends and painted lugs like this, but you'd still get lug lining, even if painted. Case in point:




-Kurt
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Old 04-25-20, 02:33 PM
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-----

also Titan stem/bar set, Campag pillar, Brooks Pro saddle, Weinmann wood-filled tubular rims, NERVEX transfer on seat tube


-----
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Old 04-25-20, 03:14 PM
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I think there was room for some variation on the Paramounts...Typical yes but this means sometimes, I ordered my P-15 and it came without the chrome tips on the fork ends not typical according to catalog and the shop noticed it when it came in and offered a discount if I wanted to keep t as is.
I ask that they send the fork back for the plating even though it cost me a delay of several weeks.
BTW, IMO The Disneyland decal is very nice!
Best, Ben
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Old 04-25-20, 04:09 PM
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Narhay

Awesome find, welcome to the club if this is your first Paramount or first this vintage, fantastic score.

This is a great example despite the apparent/possible rework/inconsistencies.

I think these are a lottery find no matter what at this stage of the game.

Great color as well, not sure if it was around when this came out.

Well done.
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Old 04-25-20, 04:28 PM
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I have a '63 P13 Deluxe, S/N is P39, just a few removed from your specimen. The almost nonexistent remnants of downtube logo were the post-Disney font, that was dropped later in 1963 at some point. My research showed original brakes were early gen Vainqueur 999 caliper's noted above with the button QR levers, Maes bar and Record drivetrain with 151 bcd cranks in addition. Drivetrain may have also come later in the year replacing the GS stuff, and the bike came with it. Right or wrong (and within my budget constraints) I managed what I think is a reasonable replication. Couldn't find the correct seat tube decal, I made one by spicing a later Paramount for the rings and bars, and a period Continental for the AS logo. From more than 2 feet away the joins are invisible - good enough. Yours looks good, I like the box lining..

Last edited by PilotFishBob; 04-25-20 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 04-25-20, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela
-----

also Titan stem/bar set, Campag pillar, Brooks Pro saddle, Weinmann wood-filled tubular rims, NERVEX transfer on seat tube

-----
I think the Campagnolo post was an option, but I'm pretty sure the base post was a straight pipe design with a separate clamp.

-Kurt
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Old 04-25-20, 05:20 PM
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Thanks for all the info but this is not mine as of yet. I spoke with the seller earlier in the day and might put an offer in later but the whole pandemic has tempered my desire to go out. We shall see what happens. I would likely build up as correct as possible with some minor convenience changes.
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Old 04-25-20, 05:44 PM
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Weren't Paramounts pretty much completely customizable? So that paint could be original, regardless of the uncommon color and lack of lug lining. I'm wondering though if it could be a factory repaint from say the bike boom era? That might explain some of the more 70's-ish features. Cool looking frame regardless, just as it is.
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Old 04-25-20, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Narhay
Thanks for all the info but this is not mine as of yet. I spoke with the seller earlier in the day and might put an offer in later but the whole pandemic has tempered my desire to go out. We shall see what happens. I would likely build up as correct as possible with some minor convenience changes.
This would be for me one that would push the limits of the crap we're dealing with and I work at a hospital, am fanatical about it and none of this is lost on me.

I would be escalating the applicable safeguards and making a run for it post haste, you don't get many chances at these.
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Old 04-25-20, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Narhay
What do you think of this 1963 Schwinn Paramount P12 ?
I think it's cool.
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Old 04-26-20, 11:59 AM
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Well. I caved.







There is some paint damage on the bottom of top tube not apparent in the sellers photos but I can likely touch it up. That reynolds decal hasnt disintegrated so I feel like it is a replacement. If this is the original paint I will look for flamboyant red but it looks too good and lustrous to be original.

Last edited by Narhay; 04-26-20 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 04-26-20, 01:19 PM
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Sweet... nicely done!
Ben
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Old 04-26-20, 02:08 PM
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Narhay

Excellent!
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Old 04-26-20, 02:19 PM
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Schwinn paint was good, but they used a red oxide primer as the first coat. On any color, intermediate color, silver for any of the "flamboyants" and an off white on the opaques.

The Reynolds graphic looks replacement, back then they were a dry fix transfer or a decal.
The downtube graphics look good but a bit too "bold"
The pinstriping is the right theme, but a bit over the top, no lug lining, which is possible, but unlikely.
no demarcation at the termination of the chrome.

But, leave it. Could be much worse.

"Boy I like my Schwinn bike, Schwinn is the finest bike" the lyrics to the jingle heard near 60 years ago on the Capt'n Kangaroo show.
Where the Cap' presented the bright shiny Schwinn bikes on set...(wonder how they knocked back the chrome, under those studio lights of the day, there would have been bad "flares" to the camera.)
It was how I learned of the New Sting-Ray!
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Old 04-26-20, 02:23 PM
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Early mainstream marketing at its finest, wind up the kids and the parents will have no choice but to cave.
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Old 04-26-20, 02:41 PM
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This is a cool bike. I bought two bikes just before things went crazy with the pandemic: one is a '68 Schwinn paramount, the other a '71 Whitcomb. Both were complete bikes.

Your Schwinn Paramount looks great.
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Old 04-26-20, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac
Early mainstream marketing at its finest, wind up the kids and the parents will have no choice but to cave.
A few years later when I was able to help select my Christmas present, it was Schwinn. 3-speed stick shift Sting-Ray.... It was the sensation of the apartment building. Every Adult wanted to ride it, the apartment manager got to.
I brushed aside the Raleigh, The American Eagle (5 speed even) I was prepped. does this bike have double walled rims? The three speed gears are protected inside...
Logic prevailed. The final comment, YOU have quality bikes... They had Carltons, with full Reynolds tubing even... The war was won.
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Old 04-26-20, 02:47 PM
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I will line the lugs and then start on the slow journey of amassing mostly correct parts for it. The easy way would be to go for a nuovo record group but I already have two full NR bikes.

The other option is a 1x with a tourney or acera groupset on 26" wheels and some clamp on cantilever posts.
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Old 04-26-20, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Narhay
I will line the lugs and then start on the slow journey of amassing mostly correct parts for it. The easy way would be to go for a nuovo record group but I already have two full NR bikes.

The other option is a 1x with a tourney or acera groupset on 26" wheels and some clamp on cantilever posts.
the original lug lining was a bit of a trick, on the tubes away from the actual lug shoreline. Impressive.
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Old 04-26-20, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage
the original lug lining was a bit of a trick, on the tubes away from the actual lug shoreline. Impressive.
Yes, still wondering how it was done....some suggested a ruling pen but????
Ben
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Old 04-26-20, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Narhay
I will line the lugs and then start on the slow journey of amassing mostly correct parts for it. The easy way would be to go for a nuovo record group but I already have two full NR bikes.

The other option is a 1x with a tourney or acera groupset on 26" wheels and some clamp on cantilever posts.
Keep in mind that many of these came with upright bars and stem shifters, this frame already has the lackluster Weinmann's that can be made usable and are reasonably appropriate. It may be a P-13 but could easily have been a P-15 as well, that could be an option.

I would avoid clamping anything on the frame that could compromise its integrity.
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Old 04-26-20, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac
Keep in mind that many of these came with upright bars and stem shifters, this frame already has the lackluster Weinmann's that can be made usable and are reasonably appropriate. It may be a P-13 but could easily have been a P-15 as well, that could be an option.

I would avoid clamping anything on the frame that could compromise its integrity.
Those are mafac racers on the frame and they could be pressed into service. Alternatively I will look for the 999s. I was making a really funny joke about the 1x group and clamp cantilever posts on this frame. Ha ha.

The stronglight cranks appear to be few and far between but I will keep looking. Other than the 55 and 54, are there other period cranks I should look at? I would go with 144bcd record if I go that route.
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