stevenofqueens

So what would be the most high end and period correct Campy Groupset for say a 1986 Pinarello Treviso. I know there are different model Campy groupsets, I'm just not that well versed in them. Any help would be much appreciated

SurferRosa

If it were a bit later in '87 or '88, I think you'd have more choices: Croce d'Aune and Chorus.

In '86, you have C-Record, Victory and probably still SR.

stevenofqueens

thank you for the response

is Super Record the higher end of them all?

smd4

Found this book a few days ago. Upgrading your Bike

It's pretty cool, and goes into the Campy groups of the mid-late 1980s, explaining the groups and their differences. Pretty good little book if you're interested in the era.

repechage

A racer in 1986-87 would go with "super record" But, superleggeri pedals, the black with the steel spindles and a Nuovo Record bottom bracket. Reliability and less flex.
sometimes the Super Record group was called "reduced" or "pro".
my 1987 Montello came with Super Record "reduced" as the shop called it.

Corsa Record was interesting but a letdown, the "delta" brakes were withdrawn for a time.
the bottom bracket used smaller bearings, from a racer's perspective, one overshifted beyond the big ring and it was a stop to get the chain back on. No racer wants to be dropped for a mechanical. The original Corsa Record front mech had the braze on mounting bolt location in just the Wrong place, offset to the bottom.
who knows why.

on the plus side, set the styling that everyone copied later and a 39t inner ring was possible as the cranks used a 135mm bolt hole circle.
of course that was unique... and the Corsa Record had one unique hidden reverse chainring fastener...
then there were the SGR pedals... ( oh dear)
I am a Campagnolo enthusiast, but the Corsa Record was just a miss.

Chombi1 

Pretty much those were the last years before the C-Record/Delta/Chorus 1...etc lines were introduced by Campy. So, Campagnolo Super or Nuovo Revord will still be period correct.....

Bianchigirll 

Spend a little time over at Velobase. It is a great resource and the groups are generally listed in a loose hierarchy.

‘86 would have been trapped between Super Record being top dog and Corse Record which was just coming onto the scene.

Super Record would be appropriate for you frame and lighter than Corse Record. Other than the Delta brakes there wasn’t too much functionality difference between the two.

Don’t forget these came as frame only too and you would build it with what you had and could afford. Some guys would skimp on brakes, seatpost, headsets, maybe even cranks and go for Super Record derailleurs because they were considered the best.

jdawginsc 

Super Record. Last stages...maybe you can find the unicorn Super Record retrofictions...

Corsa Record (C-Record) would have been in various stages of revision from 1985-87 and likely will be VERYYYYYY pricey.

((Or you could sell your house and get the 50th anniversary))

steelbikeguy

It's not exactly the date requested, but I've got a nice Colnago ad from the March 1985 issue of Bicycling that shows the C-Record as the gear to put on a top Italian bike. The ad also shows the Campy Victory group for those who actually had a budget to worry about.







.. although.. I don't understand why it refers to the Campy group as the Nuovo Record group.

Steve in Peoria

SurferRosa

And, except for the rear derailleur, Triomphe is just as nice ... or nicer if you like a better looking crank with normal extraction threads.

Manny66 

I had pretty much the same setup in 1986, but I went with the Suntour Superbe pedals over the Campy, those babies were super smooth and never stopped spinning . Finally switched over to LOOK pedals in 1989.

T-Mar

In 1986 there were mail order houses that would offered high grade Italian frames with the buyers choice of any Campagnolo or Shimano component packages. The top Campagnolo group at that time was C-Record but you'd be more likely to see it on the Montello than the Treviso. In 1986, most Treviso owners would likely have spec'd the reduced Super Record group. If the LBS still had some left, you'd see some with Nuovo Record. The budget conscious cyclist might specify Victory. The smart cyclist (with thick skin) would have spec'd New Dura-Ace.

smd4

Yep. There was just no question which was the most technologically advanced group out there at the time. Campy was still stuck in the past--suggesting that SIS was just fine for "non-competitive" cyclists.

T-Mar

I've always considered C-record to be Camapgnolo's late reaction to Dura-Ace AX. It came out just as Shimano was introducing New Dura-Ace (7400 series). The smooth, non-fluted, non-engraved, aerodynamic styling was copied from AX. The Delta brakeset was just a more complicated and overweight version of parapull. Even the crankset's hidden chainring bolt was Shimano influenced. as they had offset the spider in 1980, resulting in a stiffer and lighter crankarm. 1980 was also the model year that Dura-Ace first offered 39T chainring capability.

repechage

"sissy" shifting.
be a man and friction shift.
the market was changing.
triathlon enthusiasts were strong and fit and not that interested in bikes as bicycles, they were tools. So index shifting ( with incremental improvement of shifting under load ) was the way to go.
Look soon enough disrupted the pedal market.
both Shimano and Campagnolo needing to license the tech for a time. Look even manufactured the pedals.

Shimano also exploited the incremental improvement, but the latest for better shifting, integrated shifting, more cogs...8 really requiring a freehub... some people got tired of it but were willing to plunk down the cash to not be "held back".

smd4

Guess those European road racers weren't too strong or fit, and didn't see bikes as tools. And Shimano was marketing Dura Ace to road racers--not triathletes. That was a secondary market for them.

Campagnolo got caught with their (spandex) shorts down.

repechage

the previous went down to 40t but that was not exploited. I'm not sure I buy the AX spurring on the Corsa Record. Campagnolo's development timeline was too long. The roots of "Smooth" were to be seen in the 50th anniv group- there I think almost all was styling save for the extra material on the back side of the RH crank arm.

Shimano wanted to be taken seriously, the EX was novel, the AX was I think an outlier hoping to catch those interested in "aero"- but few frames employed slipstream tubing.
the 7400 series did tie all the learning together and capitalized on the Sunsetting Suntour patent. When that lapsed, Shimano was at market, their early forays into index were building, they did well. The freehub was out there with EX but not accepted.
then they kept pushing.
every year was necessary to upgrade or not have the best performance.
ticked customers off but they bought in.

I actually think Corsa Record was rushed to market- the front derailleur in the launch collateral never saw production - the revised was better but terrible braze on fastener location, later corrected. The sexy high flange hubs were back ordered. The Delta brakes...
withdrawal then many revisions.
I have a crank date stamped 1984- it was not until 1985 that any sets became available and those had cobalto brakes...

smd4

Yep, true.

styggno1

Probably something that was carried over in a translation. Nuovo means new. This was the the new Record group. Which it was.

styggno1

Except for the seatpost I find Bianchi Centenarios a good resurce for "C-Record" knowledge and in time line matters. They were collectors material from the start and very few has seen action. This means most of them are unaltered. They were made over a period (not only for 1985 celebration) and one can see all the alterations in the "C-Record" group happening. Starting with the redrawn first execution deltas, via script Super/Record and there is even a version with Croce D´Aune delta brakes. Same with the front derrailleur.

In my mind there is no doubt "C-Record" was top of the line since its introduction and if going for top of the line (Campagnolo line up) on a 1986 bike this is the group to have. But I do agree with others above in it not being the top of choice at the time or even the top of function... For me it was what I wanted back then but mostly because I could not afford it and it was and still is top of beauty!

Looking at the OP question - "what would be the most high end and period correct Campy Groupset" - for a 1986 bike? I would say C-record. With Record/Nuovo/Super also being period and high end - and/but with a 1987 intro Chorus also within period correct.

smd4

Those of us in the shop at the time were mesmerized by the C-Record crankset. We couldn't understand why no one had ever thought to make the crank arm one of the five spider arms before! It seemed like a no-brainer. Campy polishing was always second to none.

The shop owner's son loved Delta brakes; however, they seemed way too overcomplicated to me, compared to my Dura Ace sidepulls. And seemingly about the worst thing you could put on a bike, aerodynamically (except for the rider).

T-Mar

How can you say that Campagnolo's 50th Anniversary group was "the roots of "Smooth"", when Dura-Ace AX preceded it by two years.

I've seen a 41T, 144mm chainring but not a 40T. Regardless, even with the 41T, you had to trim the ends of the spider to ensure proper chain seating. You could perform the same massaging of a Dura-Ace EX/AX spider, to get it to accept a 38T chainring.

As for Dura-Ace not being taken seriously, Tullio himself considered them a real threat. In 1973, when Shimano supplied the Flandria pro team, they won over 50 races. When it came down the World Championship road race in Barcelona, Tullio had his star riders gang up on Flandria rider Freddy Maertens, to ensure that Shimano did not take the title. However, as insurance, Tullio gave Flandria an offer they couldn't refuse for 1974. That way, even if Maertens won, the reigning World Champion would be riding Shimano in 1974. Tullio never put this type of pressure on teams using Huret or Simplex, so it's obvious that he considered Shimano a real threat.


Campagnolo's dominance in the racing market owed as much, if not more, to sponsorship, as well as the merits of components. Teams didn't necessarily ride Campagnolo because it was the best, but because of the contracts offed to them. Fom a marketing perspective, it was a brilliant move. Tullio made sure to sponsor the best riders and the best teams, knowing that what won on Sunday, would sell on Monday. Had Shimano been more aggressive in their sponsorship of pro teams during the first decade of Dura-Ace, the palmares of the two compannies may have looked very different.

jamesdak 

Well, if this helps I can say that the Victory Group on the mid 80's Colnago Super I got seemed pretty crappy at first.

Then, I pulled off and fully serviced all the parts. Cleaned, degreased, polished, and relubed. Upgraded to modern cable housings and cables. New brake pads, rebuilt the RD with new pulleys since the old ones were trashed. Worked the DT shifters over well to included polishing them inside the barrels and out. Shifting was super smooth and precise afterwards with none of the overshift, trim back, action I had to do before the full service. Once I was done with it I considered it every bit as good of a friction setup as my beloved Superbe Pro setup on my Opus III. And it was easily covering an 8 speed cassette I was now running on that bike.

Just pointing this out as I bet you can get the "inferior" Victory parts a lot cheaper than other options.

stevenofqueens

Interesting as my '86 Treviso has a Dura Ace groupset that shifts like butter. I have absolutely no complaints. I was just thinking about keeping her all Italian. Either way I appreciate the great information from all the members. Thank you

repechage

to be clear- First Gen Dura-Ace could and did provide a 40t.

setting aside the AX group- at the time Campagnolo paid little heed To Shimano.

for Campagnolo, the beginning of "Smooth" was the 50th group.
the Corsa Record was underway prior.
With the 7400 series and it's acceptance, Campagnolo was stuck and rushed the Corsa Record to market and suffered. Indexing only compounded the problems in the marketplace.
the pro peloton cared less save for the Simplex retrofriction shifters. Campagnolo did have to answer that attack. They had the mechanicals but needed to provide a design that kind of fit the old appearance.

The Corsa Record was a styling theme that did effect others. The design was heavy unfortunately. If the original Corsa front mech was used, overshifting was bad as the chain would drop to the pedal. On the previous design, the chain would land near the crank spindle and a correction was easy.
we fitted a number of Corsa Record bikes with Record mechs, more reliable, flexed less.