Varia radar camera RCT715 leaked
05-23-22, 06:13 PM
#126
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The 715 would be an action cam if one could actually get pics off it as Garmin intended. It’s not an action cam— and this is DCR’s point— because the app doesn’t work as it is supposed to, making it too hard to use.
GPLama’s workaround using a card reader is there, but even then, it’s really too much work scouring through all the tiny files if one’s even interested to take the time to pop the card out and plug in a reader in the first place.
Obviously Garmin made the app to browse, view, and export files— basic functions of action cam stuff— but they simply did not do a good job and the app does not do what they intended it to do.
So it’s a set-and-forget rear accident recorder…to be disappointed that’s all Garmin could muster when they could have had a “market killer,” seems a sensible feeling to have the way I figure things. It’s also reasonable to be perfectly pleased with it as is, but it is a lower bar…no way around that.
GPLama’s workaround using a card reader is there, but even then, it’s really too much work scouring through all the tiny files if one’s even interested to take the time to pop the card out and plug in a reader in the first place.
Obviously Garmin made the app to browse, view, and export files— basic functions of action cam stuff— but they simply did not do a good job and the app does not do what they intended it to do.
So it’s a set-and-forget rear accident recorder…to be disappointed that’s all Garmin could muster when they could have had a “market killer,” seems a sensible feeling to have the way I figure things. It’s also reasonable to be perfectly pleased with it as is, but it is a lower bar…no way around that.
05-23-22, 06:13 PM
#127
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typically an "action" camera will provide clarity that a simple recording device is unable to reliability do. If a court case relies on the camera for evidence, the stability & clarity of the footage will be critical for its' "features" .
Seeing how this is a rear facing camera with a radar detection sensor, it makes it more important to follow through with better "features" . Without the critical features, it's just a novelty gadget.
Seeing how this is a rear facing camera with a radar detection sensor, it makes it more important to follow through with better "features" . Without the critical features, it's just a novelty gadget.
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05-23-22, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DCRainmaker
The problem here isn’t the addition of features. It’s that none of the features are fully baked.
Stepping back, I don’t really understand how this went so wrong – primarily on the camera side. Let’s take the hardware first. Garmin has extensive experience designing cameras, both action and rearview for vehicles. While Garmin stopped making action cameras a few years back, they were largely competitive hardware-wise to GoPros at the time. Stabilization was acceptable for that timeframe, and that was 5-7 years ago. Whereas this, in 2022, has zero hardware or software stabilization. Nothing. And while that’s perhaps fine (Narrator: It’s not.) for a $100-$200 safety camera, it’s a hard sell for a camera that people might want to use to capture antics on a group ride, or any other moment in cycling.
....
Like anyone else, I wanted this to be awesome, but right now – it’s not. Yes, if I just power on the camera/radar, set it in continuous mode, and wait to get hit from behind – then yes, I’m reasonably confident the camera will have the footage of that incident. But the last time I got hit by a car was 12 years ago this week, and it was from the side (during a race). Thus, any rear-facing camera I buy for $400 needs to at least be capable of capturing non-sad moments on my ride. Because I think capturing those moments is just as important to remembering this sport (still) as fun and viable, as opposed to the assumption that riding on the road is so inherently dangerous that we need to spend $400 in hopes of capturing those sad moments.
Stepping back, I don’t really understand how this went so wrong – primarily on the camera side. Let’s take the hardware first. Garmin has extensive experience designing cameras, both action and rearview for vehicles. While Garmin stopped making action cameras a few years back, they were largely competitive hardware-wise to GoPros at the time. Stabilization was acceptable for that timeframe, and that was 5-7 years ago. Whereas this, in 2022, has zero hardware or software stabilization. Nothing. And while that’s perhaps fine (Narrator: It’s not.) for a $100-$200 safety camera, it’s a hard sell for a camera that people might want to use to capture antics on a group ride, or any other moment in cycling.
....
Like anyone else, I wanted this to be awesome, but right now – it’s not. Yes, if I just power on the camera/radar, set it in continuous mode, and wait to get hit from behind – then yes, I’m reasonably confident the camera will have the footage of that incident. But the last time I got hit by a car was 12 years ago this week, and it was from the side (during a race). Thus, any rear-facing camera I buy for $400 needs to at least be capable of capturing non-sad moments on my ride. Because I think capturing those moments is just as important to remembering this sport (still) as fun and viable, as opposed to the assumption that riding on the road is so inherently dangerous that we need to spend $400 in hopes of capturing those sad moments.
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05-23-22, 07:10 PM
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The problem with Ray's (otherwise sound) review is that he says it falls short as an action camera. Indirectly, he also suggests it is borderline inadequate as an incident-capture-only camera. The limitations of 1080p and lack of image stabilization for the latter purpose are what should be of primary concern. Its ability to capture the "non-sad moments" from a rear point of view on the bike are no more relevant to its primary function than its ability to film pornography for Youtube.
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05-24-22, 04:36 AM
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No, I do fully understand that it could have been both. But the reality is that it's not an action-cam, so the poster who was only looking for an action cam and couldn't even see the point in its primary function is clearly looking at the wrong product.
05-24-22, 04:41 AM
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I mentioned the idea of live video on the head unit because what the radar gives you is really, really primitive. Basically a range finder. Everyone seems to love the Varia, I want one. But that's a common review complaint - that it doesn't give you quite the information you need, or distracts you. And even though they added the camera they haven't improved that function. I know it's not an action cam, it points the wrong way. I just wish it were cooler, that's all. I am pretty sure BTLE won't do video anyhow, but whatever replaces it will.
Last edited by PeteHski; 05-24-22 at 04:49 AM.
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05-24-22, 05:02 AM
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The problem with Ray's (otherwise sound) review is that he says it falls short as an action camera. Indirectly, he also suggests it is borderline inadequate as an incident-capture-only camera. The limitations of 1080p and lack of image stabilization for the latter purpose are what should be of primary concern. Its ability to capture the "non-sad moments" from a rear point of view on the bike are no more relevant to its primary function than its ability to film pornography for Youtube.
05-24-22, 06:21 AM
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This distinction between an “action cam” and “incident-only cam” is arbitrary and pointless. A camera, as Garmin call the device, captures images, and it’s largely irrelevant whether one considers a video of a motorist in an illegal close pass “action” or not.
The point and problem is that 715 is that the camera feature— again, that’s what Garmin call it, not an “incident only cam”— is extremely frustrating to use. What it is supposed to do, it does not do well.
Right on the Garmin site, on the 715 page, there’s a video showing riders behind waving at the camera. Whether that’s “action” doesn’t matter because it’s just the camera performing the basic function of a camera, rather the point is, for a user to capture and use such footage is difficult and time-consuming using the systems Garmin supplies to do that with.
The point and problem is that 715 is that the camera feature— again, that’s what Garmin call it, not an “incident only cam”— is extremely frustrating to use. What it is supposed to do, it does not do well.
Right on the Garmin site, on the 715 page, there’s a video showing riders behind waving at the camera. Whether that’s “action” doesn’t matter because it’s just the camera performing the basic function of a camera, rather the point is, for a user to capture and use such footage is difficult and time-consuming using the systems Garmin supplies to do that with.
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05-24-22, 06:22 AM
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I didn't see any such person.
05-24-22, 06:28 AM
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The problem with Ray's (otherwise sound) review is that he says it falls short as an action camera. Indirectly, he also suggests it is borderline inadequate as an incident-capture-only camera. The limitations of 1080p and lack of image stabilization for the latter purpose are what should be of primary concern. Its ability to capture the "non-sad moments" from a rear point of view on the bike are no more relevant to its primary function than its ability to film pornography for Youtube.
05-24-22, 08:53 AM
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I understand the complaints about it not being better as an action cam, and I wish it was, even though I have zero interest in using it that way myself. I still have the rectangular version, and haven't felt compelled to upgrade because it works perfectly fine (although I augment the light with a Cygolite). When Forrest posted this, my first reaction was that I wanted one. But having seen the limits of a forward-facing 1080p cam, even with image stabilization, I have decided to wait it out until gen 2.
It's a safety device first and foremost; evaluating it as a social media data collecting device strikes me as a bit unfair to Garmin.
05-24-22, 09:16 AM
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Garmin makes a car dashcam I am thinking of getting. With 1080p resolution, and its finite loop recording, it would probably be quite limiting as an action cam. Yet I have never seen such an objection raised in any of the reviews I have read, and I think it is fairly safe to assume that it would not occur to anyone to use it as an action cam, as its "primary function" is to record traffic incidents and accidents.
If I did read a review where its limitations as an action cam were raised as a deal-breaking objection, I wouldn't take the review seriously.
If I did read a review where its limitations as an action cam were raised as a deal-breaking objection, I wouldn't take the review seriously.
05-24-22, 09:43 AM
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Oh yeah? Unfair? But yet, Garmin is posting videos on YouTube of your shiny, happy, bike-riding friends waving and smiling into the 715. I mean, it’s not like they couldn’t have gotten some testimonials from accident victims or lawyers about how video evidence was key in getting compensation, and really driven that “safety first” message home. There’s some decision-making going on there, and it’s almost as if Garmin know that cameras record stuff both good and bad…
05-24-22, 09:44 AM
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The radar and red light on my current version are there to keep me safe/alive by alerting cars to my presence with the light, and alerting me to car's presence with the radar/display/beep. It has no other purpose. If you add a camera that Garmin has specced as being adequate for the purpose of recording traffic events behind you, it is not unreasonable to assume that the "primary function" is safety (and ID-ing violators of your safety) rather than an entertainment device.
I understand the complaints about it not being better as an action cam, and I wish it was, even though I have zero interest in using it that way myself. I still have the rectangular version, and haven't felt compelled to upgrade because it works perfectly fine (although I augment the light with a Cygolite). When Forrest posted this, my first reaction was that I wanted one. But having seen the limits of a forward-facing 1080p cam, even with image stabilization, I have decided to wait it out until gen 2.
It's a safety device first and foremost; evaluating it as a social media data collecting device strikes me as a bit unfair to Garmin.
I understand the complaints about it not being better as an action cam, and I wish it was, even though I have zero interest in using it that way myself. I still have the rectangular version, and haven't felt compelled to upgrade because it works perfectly fine (although I augment the light with a Cygolite). When Forrest posted this, my first reaction was that I wanted one. But having seen the limits of a forward-facing 1080p cam, even with image stabilization, I have decided to wait it out until gen 2.
It's a safety device first and foremost; evaluating it as a social media data collecting device strikes me as a bit unfair to Garmin.
I'm not arguing about what it is to you or what you want or expect out of it - you do you - but your wants, needs, and expectations are not universal and are not an adequate measuring stick by which to determine its "reasonable primary function" for others.
05-24-22, 09:46 AM
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05-24-22, 09:49 AM
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My Garmin Edge 530 doesn't come with a unix shell. I think this is a real limitation. This computer could allow for so much more if only I could do a bit of shell-scripting with it. It is, after all, marketed as a computer.
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05-24-22, 10:09 AM
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I don’t think that’s the issue, but rather it’s some arbitrary definition of “action cam” that’s causing people to gloss over the fact that what Garmin says the camera and users can do, in reality, is very difficult and frustrating to do.
05-24-22, 10:17 AM
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Maybe because the "primary function" of a product is what was identified in the design brief. It is not identified by what the consumer wants or the consumers opinions or how the consumer might use it. The consumer is free to simply not buy it if it does not do what the consumer wants it to do. The consumer is free to use it in any manner that the consumer wants to use it. The consumer is also free to let the manufacturer know of the consumer's desires through reviews and buying decisions.
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05-24-22, 10:27 AM
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Oh yeah? Unfair? But yet, Garmin is posting videos on YouTube of your shiny, happy, bike-riding friends waving and smiling into the 715. I mean, it’s not like they couldn’t have gotten some testimonials from accident victims or lawyers about how video evidence was key in getting compensation, and really driven that “safety first” message home. There’s some decision-making going on there, and it’s almost as if Garmin know that cameras record stuff both good and bad…
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05-24-22, 11:01 AM
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Oh yeah? Unfair? But yet, Garmin is posting videos on YouTube of your shiny, happy, bike-riding friends waving and smiling into the 715. I mean, it’s not like they couldn’t have gotten some testimonials from accident victims or lawyers about how video evidence was key in getting compensation, and really driven that “safety first” message home. There’s some decision-making going on there, and it’s almost as if Garmin know that cameras record stuff both good and bad…
https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/p/721258
Contrast the above with the Go-Pro website "Hollywood in your hand"
https://gopro.com/en/gb/
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05-24-22, 11:55 AM
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Maybe because the "primary function" of a product is what was identified in the design brief. It is not identified by what the consumer wants or the consumers opinions or how the consumer might use it. The consumer is free to simply not buy it if it does not do what the consumer wants it to do. The consumer is free to use it in any manner that the consumer wants to use it. The consumer is also free to let the manufacturer know of the consumer's desires through reviews and buying decisions.
Well this is what the Garmin product page looks like. There is a very brief video showing what the camera view looks like. It's not exactly thrilling action footage is it? All the literature is about the primary function of the device - rear approach warning system and camera recording.
https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/p/721258
Contrast the above with the Go-Pro website "Hollywood in your hand"
https://gopro.com/en/gb/
https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/p/721258
Contrast the above with the Go-Pro website "Hollywood in your hand"
https://gopro.com/en/gb/
I give! You guys are right - I don't know what the hell I was thinking. We shouldn't have any expectations of being able to use a video camera to capture sharp, clear footage, from any ride, and we definitely shouldn't expect to easily access and share said footage.
Here’s what’s new for the Varia RCT715:
- Built-in camera: Capture sharp, clear footage at up to 1080p/30 fps during any ride.
- Automatic incident capture: If an incident is detected, video footage from before, during and after the event will automatically be saved.
- Additional Varia app functionality: Easily access video footage, transfer videos or customize camera settings, such as data overlays.
05-24-22, 05:16 PM
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Tell you what - as soon as I get a chance to go out on the road and be passed by a couple of vehicles (hopefully won't be hit) I'll try to post a link to the actual videos taken by the camera.
When I connected the 715 to Garmin Express, it updated the firmware to a newer version, which (supposedly) addresses the concerns about image stabilization. We shall see.
I did not buy this as an "action cam". I bought it as an 'incident recorder', and that is how I have the camera configured. It only records when the radar detects a vehicle. My sincere hope is that when I return from a ride, I'll just delete all the clips without reviewing them, as I usually did when I was using a GoPro. BTW, the GoPro is now mounted facing forward.
When I connected the 715 to Garmin Express, it updated the firmware to a newer version, which (supposedly) addresses the concerns about image stabilization. We shall see.
I did not buy this as an "action cam". I bought it as an 'incident recorder', and that is how I have the camera configured. It only records when the radar detects a vehicle. My sincere hope is that when I return from a ride, I'll just delete all the clips without reviewing them, as I usually did when I was using a GoPro. BTW, the GoPro is now mounted facing forward.
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05-24-22, 06:59 PM
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That would be great. Any observations about the battery life would be very useful as well.
05-25-22, 03:45 AM
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I give! You guys are right - I don't know what the hell I was thinking. We shouldn't have any expectations of being able to use a video camera to capture sharp, clear footage, from any ride, and we definitely shouldn't expect to easily access and share said footage.
[/list]
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"if I just power on the camera/radar, set it in continuous mode, and wait to get hit from behind – then yes, I’m reasonably confident the camera will have the footage of that incident."
That's exactly what the camera is there for. It's too bad for those who specifically want to be making Youtube videos of people riding on their back wheel.
05-25-22, 03:49 AM
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