ave416

Hi All,

I'm looking to purchase a used bike with my eye on some older models for the aesthetic. I mostly bike within my city (Toronto), so long distance is not a huge concern. Toronto also has greatly inflated bike prices due to trends, road biking popularity in general, and covid. I found this bike on Kijiji for $400 CAD but can't seem to find any information about the "Empire" branding. From what I did find, it seems like it was a Canadian distributor that branded Japanese bikes in the 80s. I also tried looking up the different sets. This one appears to have Campy gear shifters, Shimano 600 breaks, and Shimano titlist derailleur. I'm just starting to take a deeper dive into cycling so was hoping for some more experienced opinions. I can't post photos or links yet so not sure how to share this. It was listed on Kijiji Canada as "Empire road bicycle" in Toronto.

Thanks!

Edit: Added an album of the photos as I cannot post links or photos yet.

juvela

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certainly appears earlier than "'80's" - would think from the '74-'77 time

shift levers only component obviously not original

400CAD sounds a bit much; but then am not in Toronto

member T-Mar explained the origin of the Empire marque here:

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https://bikeforums.net/g/picture/21491634

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ave416

Just so I can learn, how were you able to tell that it was from earlier than the 80's? Just by the general look?

Also, were camp shifters never sold with non camp gear sets?

One thing i noticed was the actual shimano branding on the rear dropout. I had difficult time finding anything about shimano frames though.

juvela

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dating -

a) combination of fittings models

b) frame details, any later and frame would exhibit more braze-ons for items such as housing stops & guides, water bottle mounts, etc.

c) some of the cycle's fittings will carry date marks. the first spot i would look is the backside of the Tourney crank arms

there is a guide here for the decipherment of the markings -

Date of Manufacture of Bicycle Components can be used to date a bike: component dating

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Shimano a mfr of parts, not of frames, they do offer sets of frame ends

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shift levers - one would not expect to see Italian fittings on a cycle manufactured in Japan

present shift levers may have been fitted because cycle may have come with stem controls which a previous owner did not want


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randyjawa 

Your Empire is the "Professional" model and several have come my way, over the years. Don't let the word professional blow your kilt up. The bike is upper mid range, in my opinion, very similar to the Sekine SHT or SHS models. The Campy stuff must have been added after the bike was sold. Normally, the group set would be Shimano mixed quality levels. To me, $400.00 is a lot but not necessarily out of line in a strong market, like Toronto or Vancouver. I would most certainly offer less but negotiation is, of course, up to you.

Believe it or not, the last one I got I found at the dump. That does not mean it is anything less than it is. I like the bikes and enjoyed the ride quality. And, all that have come my way were the same blue color as yours. Sadly, the paint used seems to go dull, with a powdery like finish that can be easily polished out. Anyway, the last one to come my way (some components are not as found) I gave it to my son...

ramzilla

Empire ........................................ probably made by Kuwahara.

T-Mar

This bicycle is easily defined as being a 1976 model. We've seen enough samples with the Shimano 600 brakeset and 1st generation Shimano Titlist derailleurs to know that both are OEM. The former was introduced in late 1975 for the 1976 model year, while the latter was replaced by 2nd generation Titlist II for the 1977 model year. It's a nice, mid-range model for the era, manufactured by a reputable company, though the brand recognition is low.

The GTA is an extremely high priced market and the asking price is high but not unreasonable if it has been fully overhauled and is in ready to ride condition. Unfortunately, that does not appear to be the case, based on the dirty drivetrain.

My biggest concern with this bicycle is the small frame size, which appears to be 21". This would be suitable for a short adult male. It's obviously too small for the current owner based on the seat post and stem extensions, with the latter appearing to be well above the minimum insertion mark.

cb400bill

Pic for posterity

zukahn1 

A bit of a hard question but do the wheels tires match and are the in good shape? This will have huge effect on value since prices for vintage wheel tires are silly high priced 100-200 l low end for a nice set if you shop around So a mid level bike that doesn't have decent tires wheels is a no go+ for me in the current market.

randyjawa 

That is a good thing to consider. As I recall, the wheels are 27" and tires, cheap ones, should run you about $30.00 CND a piece (I know as I just bought a set). The wheels are quick release and I believe run Araya alloy rims. If the wheels are true, no problem. If not and if you don't know how to true them up, there goes a few dollars at a competent bike shop. On that note...

Be prepared, if you don't know how to do the work yourself, to spend another hundred bucks, or so. The bike will definitely need a full lubrication, meaning the bottom bracket, head set and wheel hubs will have to be opened up, cleaned, lubricated and re-assembled at the very least. Please believe that grease, left to sit can and usually does break down with the passing of time.

The one thing that puzzles me is the lack of model decal, which is usually a large decal, block letters, reading "Professional) on the top tube. No biggie, just an observation.