Forget the tubing: The master builders, hidden gems, and underappreciated marquees
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Forget the tubing: The master builders, hidden gems, and underappreciated marques
I've been a tubing snob for a while. Reynolds 531 or Columbus SL+. However, a recent thread made me forgo tubing sticker envy and look for a bike that is a well built, balanced examples of craftsmanship.
Anyone have any recommendations of builders, marquees, or specific models that ride exceptionally well?
I'd like to narrow it to racing frames, possibly of the Italian ilk. For example, seems like many really enjoy the ride of a Guerciotti regardless of what it's made of.
Anyone have any recommendations of builders, marquees, or specific models that ride exceptionally well?
I'd like to narrow it to racing frames, possibly of the Italian ilk. For example, seems like many really enjoy the ride of a Guerciotti regardless of what it's made of.
Last edited by Veloh; 09-27-12 at 12:04 AM.
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I can't say that I ever noticed a real difference between my 531 frames and the low end steel ones that I have.
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Sounds like your eyes are set for an Itialian frame. But for under appreciated, responsive, undervalued; I'd givea nod to the early 80's Japanese built Raliegh Competition. second in line to the Pro it has a 531 frame, Bocma Lugs, chrome socks, Campy or Superb dropouts, aggressive geometry and the workmanship is outstanding plus you can find lightly used examples in the $350 range for a complete or $200 frame & fork
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I have been wanting to try a Oria or True Temper tube machine lately. I think Geurciotti used some Oria.
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There are so many quality, smaller name builders out there. I'm obviously partial to Marnati. Grandis is another that I REALLY love. Some of the lesser known US builders also typically go at rates beneath their quality - Bill Boston, Redcay, Franklin all come to mind.
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There are so many quality, smaller name builders out there. I'm obviously partial to Marnati. Grandis is another that I REALLY love. Some of the lesser known US builders also typically go at rates beneath their quality - Bill Boston, Redcay, Franklin all come to mind.
They run cheaper than "name" Italians and are often built far better.
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I realized, quite some time ago, that I was in jeopardy of becoming a vintage bicycle snob. I had to have the best and looked down on most other, less than spectacular, offerings. I learned differently and it was this old entry level Legnano that taught me a valuable lesson.
Good bikes are not just the best ones made. Some ordinary offerings can be pretty darn special, in my opinion...
That said, the best workmanship I have been lucky enough to witness appeared on my Pinarello and on my Cyclops. Trek and Miyata also offer examples of nicely crafted frame sets. Again, this is opinion based.
Good bikes are not just the best ones made. Some ordinary offerings can be pretty darn special, in my opinion...
That said, the best workmanship I have been lucky enough to witness appeared on my Pinarello and on my Cyclops. Trek and Miyata also offer examples of nicely crafted frame sets. Again, this is opinion based.
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Certainly not what you're after but one of the nicest riding bikes I've had has been a Motobecane Super Mirage with Columbus 'inexternal' tubing, of which it's hard to find much info about. A mid-end bike, it's no doubt largely due to the geometry (fit me perfectly) but it certainly rode nicely, not too heavy, no noticable flex and it just did everything it ought to really, really well, cornered, accelerated, long journeys, it did everything comfortably and confidently
Sadly I sold it to a friend who needed a bike, but if all goes well I'll have the same model, same size, a few years younger (MBK), and far far pinker (90s) some time this weekend. I'm more excited about picking this up than any other bike in a loooong time.
Sadly I sold it to a friend who needed a bike, but if all goes well I'll have the same model, same size, a few years younger (MBK), and far far pinker (90s) some time this weekend. I'm more excited about picking this up than any other bike in a loooong time.
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+very many. The lesser known US builders are a bargain, and I think the best avenue for the cheaper collector. I think even the better known ones are by and large undervalued. There's also any number of very small Italian builders, little known outside of Italy (and sometimes barely even there) that produced beautiful work. Finding one requires some dumb luck and patience, but they do exist.
They run cheaper than "name" Italians and are often built far better.
They run cheaper than "name" Italians and are often built far better.
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If we're talking pure riding characteristics, fit and geometry will be more important than the brand.
I found David Moulton's (who most agree knew how to build a frame) three articles on frame evolution to be very enlightening. Suddenly I understood why my Peugeot with the handlebars above the wheel axle handles much better than my oversize Marini with the long top tube and short stem.
I found David Moulton's (who most agree knew how to build a frame) three articles on frame evolution to be very enlightening. Suddenly I understood why my Peugeot with the handlebars above the wheel axle handles much better than my oversize Marini with the long top tube and short stem.
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+very many. The lesser known US builders are a bargain, and I think the best avenue for the cheaper collector. I think even the better known ones are by and large undervalued. There's also any number of very small Italian builders, little known outside of Italy (and sometimes barely even there) that produced beautiful work. Finding one requires some dumb luck and patience, but they do exist.
They run cheaper than "name" Italians and are often built far better.
They run cheaper than "name" Italians and are often built far better.
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For pure handling on a "fast" bike, my Gazelle Champion Mondial (531c tubing) is pretty tough to beat. Although BF folks will generally be familiar with Gazelle racing bikes, at least around here in the Midwest where Trek seems to be about the only thing anyone has ever heard of, it's a marquee that almost no one is familiar with.
...which is entirely OK by me!
...which is entirely OK by me!
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Awesome bike Pogue.
I've had De Rosas that I wasn't wild about, but they've always handled well at speed. I think having the fork made to the frame size might help...they really track nicely and corner quickly, yet predictably. If I'm going down a hill at 50mph, I'd want a De Rosa over the other production bikes I've been on. In terms of handling, the most secure bike I've ever been on is the De Rosa Primato...though I also have to credit the GP4000 tubulars with some (most?) of that.
Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 09-26-12 at 07:39 AM.
#15
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I would just like to note that marque and marquee and two different things.
Bikes are nice. I like bikes. That is all.
Bikes are nice. I like bikes. That is all.
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Man, has this thread degenerated. Apologies. I'll go away now.
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My list of lesser names that offer lustworthy quality.
Vitus 983 Gitanes (mid 80's)
Miyata 91x series (late 80's)
Trek 770
Panasonic 7000 (non-AL)
Centurion turbo, ironman
RB1 (tough find)
Fuji Opus/Professional
Vitus 983 Gitanes (mid 80's)
Miyata 91x series (late 80's)
Trek 770
Panasonic 7000 (non-AL)
Centurion turbo, ironman
RB1 (tough find)
Fuji Opus/Professional
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I very fond of all the Marinoni I've owned and ridden.
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Miyata bikes tend to be nice riding frames.
The high end models get all the glory, but I believe the middle level models are quite under rated.
Of the bikes that I have flipped the last few years, I really wished I'd hung onto a Miyata 312. The components were nothing special but that splined tripled butted cromoly frame rode quite nicely.
The high end models get all the glory, but I believe the middle level models are quite under rated.
Of the bikes that I have flipped the last few years, I really wished I'd hung onto a Miyata 312. The components were nothing special but that splined tripled butted cromoly frame rode quite nicely.
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Thank you Colonel. The Marquee thing was getting to me...
A-and I love Olympias.
A-and I love Olympias.
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