Why do cable locks still exist?
05-27-20, 08:08 AM
#76
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You know that's the classic example of what people say when they're incorrectly believing an urban myth? "I read it in a newspaper, I don't remember when." Humans aren't very good at recalling where they read or heard something years ago, and Snopes is full of failed attempts to find these sorts of stories in the newspapers where people claimed they found them. I know that I have fallen prey to this trick of memory myself, I think most people have.
It's also quite possible that this is a misreporting of what actually happened. No question that setting booby traps is illegal and you can be liable to anyone injured by one even if they're trespassing. The idea that a trapper would leave a bunch out on the floor for oiling purposes sounds absurdly far-fetched to me, and the jury may have decided that it was more likely than not the trapper was lying about why he laid them out. Civil cases are decided by a preponderance of the evidence so that's all it would take.
It's also quite possible that this is a misreporting of what actually happened. No question that setting booby traps is illegal and you can be liable to anyone injured by one even if they're trespassing. The idea that a trapper would leave a bunch out on the floor for oiling purposes sounds absurdly far-fetched to me, and the jury may have decided that it was more likely than not the trapper was lying about why he laid them out. Civil cases are decided by a preponderance of the evidence so that's all it would take.
Setting a booby trap is a different matter.
05-27-20, 08:31 AM
#77
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I work on the theory of the store sells you a cheap lock so that when your bike does get stolen then you are not only out the cost of the cheap lock but the cost of both a new bike and a higher quality lock. That makes one cheap lock, two bicycles, and one expensive lock all because of a stolen bike. 
05-31-20, 02:13 PM
#78
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I live in a small university town where bike theft is a cottage industry and tweakers abound. My main ride is a converted vintage mtb. that I put a fairly substantial amount of money into, and that I think is the schizzle and very desirable, but not sure the pro thieves would agree. I carry a cable lock because of the weight and because I don't really park it for that long, and to keep honest people honest. I also park it with the understanding that if a real thief wants it, they will get it, no matter what I lock it with.
06-01-20, 11:26 AM
#79
Still learning
I often observe unlocked bikes throughout the neighborhood; school, pool, library, downtown, etc. My former neighbor was an LEO. I asked him has anyone ever reported theft of an unlocked bike? "Of course not officer it was locked up!" Well, would the thief have use for a cut cable lock? LOL
06-01-20, 11:38 AM
#80
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Lazy-proof is good enough most of the time in my medium-density city. But don’t leave any quick-release items unprotected. Make your thieves carry tools.
Now, my better half did have a Brooks thief hacksaw through her seat post once on a 5-minute stop because the seat clamp and rail-clamp bolts were plugged. Since then we’ve taken to stamping the frame’s serial number into the leather down the saddle's nose and “stolen@[mydomian.com]” into the underside.
Now, my better half did have a Brooks thief hacksaw through her seat post once on a 5-minute stop because the seat clamp and rail-clamp bolts were plugged. Since then we’ve taken to stamping the frame’s serial number into the leather down the saddle's nose and “stolen@[mydomian.com]” into the underside.
06-01-20, 12:01 PM
#81
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I'll get a little lawyery here but just because it's kind of a fun topic. The issue isn't criminal liability, it's tort liability. The homeowner/trapper can be sued successfully only if the burglar can show that he failed to perform a duty the homeowner owed the burglar. For most categories of people on your property, you have at least a duty to warn them of dangers. That isn't true of trespassers. The only duty you owe them is not to intentionally set booby traps. To prove criminal liability, the prosecutor would have to prove the intent to trap the burglar beyond a reasonable doubt, but in a torts case, the burglar would only have to prove it by a preponderance of the evidence. The jury could definitely infer the trapper's intent from the unlikeliness of his explanation as to why all these traps were set on the floor.
06-01-20, 06:09 PM
#82
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They're fairly compact and a lot of them will go around a larger object than a U-type lock will. A lot of people use a cable lock as a snatch-and-ride preventative. That's where someone grabs an unlocked bicycle and rides away.
I use two cable locks sometimes. One goes through the front wheel and the frame and the other goes through the rear wheel and frame. When those are used the bike is not really out of sight or if it is it's not for long. If I was living in a high-theft rate area I'd use U-type locks.
Then again, there are also a lot of YouTube videos showing thieves using an angle grinder with a cutoff disc cutting a U-type lock in broad daylight on a fairly busy sidewalk.
Cheers
I use two cable locks sometimes. One goes through the front wheel and the frame and the other goes through the rear wheel and frame. When those are used the bike is not really out of sight or if it is it's not for long. If I was living in a high-theft rate area I'd use U-type locks.
Then again, there are also a lot of YouTube videos showing thieves using an angle grinder with a cutoff disc cutting a U-type lock in broad daylight on a fairly busy sidewalk.
Cheers
One stop the professional bicycle thieves that follow me everywhre i go, but will prevent some 13 year old kid who sees a loose bike from taking off on it.
06-01-20, 06:23 PM
#83
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I have a hitch mounted rack I put on the back of my car....and when I'm driving a distance with the bike on the back, and might stop for a cup of coffee or something, i used the cable lock to lock it to the rack.
One stop the professional bicycle thieves that follow me everywhre i go, but will prevent some 13 year old kid who sees a loose bike from taking off on it.
One stop the professional bicycle thieves that follow me everywhre i go, but will prevent some 13 year old kid who sees a loose bike from taking off on it.
A friend of mine lost a nice Fiori Modena when he forgot to lock it and went into a coffee shop for a cup of coffee one night when it was raining heavily. He'd left it unlocked there many times before but Lady Luck was absent that night. Even a cheap Dollar Store cable lock could have prevented that loss.
When I worked in security, one of the things that was emphasized was the there is no such thing as secure - only more secure. You want your item secure enough that a would be thief will move on to a less secure item. And hope the thief isn't the one who loves a challenge.
Cheers
06-01-20, 09:47 PM
#84
Senior Member
I remember years ago about reading about a fellow who was a trapper. He had finished for the season and had his traps spread out around his basement after he had oiled the traps. The traps were open and set to allow the thick protective oil to penetrate into all the nooks and crannies on those traps. Some burglar broke into the trapper's basement via a basement window. When the burglar dropped to the floor from the window he landed on a trap and it snapped shut badly damaging the burglar's leg. The burglar sued the trapper and the burglar won. Even thous the trapper said if he had known the burglar was coming he'd have unset the traps. Yet another example of where the victim has fewer rights/protections than a would be thief.
Cheers
Cheers
Cool story! I'd call "myth," though.
Trappers do not oil their traps. Such contamination and scent render foothold and Conibear traps somewhat useless in the field. Furthermore, the vast majority of foothold traps would never be able to damage a human's foot or leg. If the dude had some ancient, museum piece bear traps set all around, and the perp somehow stepped right on a pan, well, that would be one unlucky, hurting, thief.
Fun story, though.Trapper Dave
Likes For Dave P:
06-01-20, 09:52 PM
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Hi Miele Man:
Cool story! I'd call "myth," though.
Trappers do not oil their traps. Such contamination and scent render foothold and Conibear traps somewhat useless in the field. Furthermore, the vast majority of foothold traps would never be able to damage a human's foot or leg. If the dude had some ancient, museum piece bear traps set all around, and the perp somehow stepped right on a pan, well, that would be one unlucky, hurting, thief. Fun story, though.
Trapper Dave
Cool story! I'd call "myth," though.
Trappers do not oil their traps. Such contamination and scent render foothold and Conibear traps somewhat useless in the field. Furthermore, the vast majority of foothold traps would never be able to damage a human's foot or leg. If the dude had some ancient, museum piece bear traps set all around, and the perp somehow stepped right on a pan, well, that would be one unlucky, hurting, thief.
Fun story, though.Trapper Dave
Cheers
06-01-20, 10:31 PM
#87
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Before the new season, trappers typically clean traps, and boil them with a logwood dye, or use a dip to keep them clean, scentless and effective. In colder areas, a coat of wax might be used, as well.
Sorry for the details. Probably out of bounds and TMI for BF.
06-01-20, 10:37 PM
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Trappers in our neck of the woods don't oil traps. Normally mine were all stained black . I used pulverized black walnut hulls soaked in water. Normal folks wouldn't want this stuff in the basement .
Now broken glass has been used to deter basement entry. I know that for a fact! I seen it on TV. Home Alone
Back to regular programing.
Now broken glass has been used to deter basement entry. I know that for a fact! I seen it on TV. Home Alone
Back to regular programing.
06-01-20, 10:37 PM
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Trappers typically rely on scentless traps. Traps with a scent, like oil, might draw an animal to the wrong spot for a proper catch, or drive them away.
Before the new season, trappers typically clean traps, and boil them with a logwood dye, or use a dip to keep them clean, scentless and effective. In colder areas, a coat of wax might be used, as well.
Sorry for the details. Probably out of bounds and TMI for BF.
Before the new season, trappers typically clean traps, and boil them with a logwood dye, or use a dip to keep them clean, scentless and effective. In colder areas, a coat of wax might be used, as well.
Sorry for the details. Probably out of bounds and TMI for BF.
I still like my two thin cable locks for locking the bike to a thick post if I'm leaving it for a few minutes in a low-crime area.
I remember one ride from Toronto Canada to Lindsay Canada. I stopped at a gas station to use their washroom and was really nervous about leaving my bike unlocked. Fortunately it was still there when I came out. A few years ago some poor guy was riding his bicycle across Canada and stopped at a small store in the outskirts of Montreal but didn't lock his bike. When he came out a couple of minutes later his bike and all his gear was gone. Again, even a cheap cable lock might have prevented that theft.
Cheers
06-02-20, 02:06 AM
#90
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I remember renting bikes on an Island off the coast of Singapore. When I asked for a lock they handed me a roll of yarn. 
Back home in the Netherlands I use a 0.7 kg (1.5 lbs) frame lock together with a 2+ kg (5 lbs) chain lock. Virtually everyone here does the same.
U-locks offer similar protection but are much more difficult to attach to something, that's why hardly anyone here uses them.
Back home in the Netherlands I use a 0.7 kg (1.5 lbs) frame lock together with a 2+ kg (5 lbs) chain lock. Virtually everyone here does the same.
U-locks offer similar protection but are much more difficult to attach to something, that's why hardly anyone here uses them.
06-02-20, 10:54 AM
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I carry a light weight cable and lock whenever going some place like the store or the doctor's office and lock the bike out front where it can be seen. Never had a problem. If you lock at a parking meter or some other obscure place, expect it to be stolen. Also, cables are a great way to secure bikes and their wheels and in my case expensive leather saddles when on a rear back rack. That all said, I never let an expensive bike out of my sight. (Hey, I'm a poet! bike - sight)
06-02-20, 12:51 PM
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Nothing really beats a frame lock for quick stops where you don't want people riding off on your bike.
A U-lock is for bolting it to anything immovable.
A U-lock is for bolting it to anything immovable.
06-02-20, 03:45 PM
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And my favorite story of bike theft came from a guy in Amsterdam who had his bike stolen: the guys who did dressed up as city workers and simply stole every bike that was locked up in a place it shouldn't have been, and not a single person was the wiser until they went to get them out of impound and the police had no record of them being removed.
06-02-20, 03:52 PM
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And my favorite story of bike theft came from a guy in Amsterdam who had his bike stolen: the guys who did dressed up as city workers and simply stole every bike that was locked up in a place it shouldn't have been, and not a single person was the wiser until they went to get them out of impound and the police had no record of them being removed.
06-02-20, 05:35 PM
#96
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I use a heavy hard chain (similar to a New York chain) at the library in a nice area with nicer bikes than mine at the rack. But usually, I wheel the bike in EVERYWHERE and don't shop where I can't. I was folding the bike and carrying it into the library, legal, but a super pain in the neck. But I would do that in our downtown area. Now, I just don't bike to that library any more.
In the old days with a LWB recumbent, I used a big U-lock around the frame and rear wheel, with a relatively thin but long cable from the U-lock through the front wheel, as I couldn't fit that additional bulk in the U-lock anyway.
In the old days with a LWB recumbent, I used a big U-lock around the frame and rear wheel, with a relatively thin but long cable from the U-lock through the front wheel, as I couldn't fit that additional bulk in the U-lock anyway.
06-03-20, 01:22 PM
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I only use a cheap, $5 combo cable lock. Why? because I never leave my bike fully unattended. Why carry a bulky, heavy lock at a lunch stop? If I see someone scoping out my bike, I am on them like a fly on doggie manure.
So, for people like me that want a lightweight, quick anti-snatch solution, we get simple cable locks. If I were to go into a resturaunt or grocery store, I don't take my bike with me unless I can keep it in relatively good view or at my side. I've even considered getting a Brompton as they fold into shopping carts.
So, for people like me that want a lightweight, quick anti-snatch solution, we get simple cable locks. If I were to go into a resturaunt or grocery store, I don't take my bike with me unless I can keep it in relatively good view or at my side. I've even considered getting a Brompton as they fold into shopping carts.
06-04-20, 10:44 PM
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When locking a bike the 50lb rule needs to be observed. If you ride a 35lb bike you need 15lbs of locks. If you ride a 15lb bike you need 35lbs of locks. Either way you are lugging 50lbs around.
I actually use an Abus chain and Abloy lock to a stainless fin box device I made to lock up my surfboards to my car. So you can only imagine the mix of chain, U-locks, etc. I use for my bikes.
But I use cables in my garage, right next to my power tools.
I will sometimes use a cable and U-lock in low crime areas where I can see the bike. But it depends on the bike.
In retrospect I remember how secure I felt with my Kryptonite tubular pin tumbler...
John
I actually use an Abus chain and Abloy lock to a stainless fin box device I made to lock up my surfboards to my car. So you can only imagine the mix of chain, U-locks, etc. I use for my bikes.
But I use cables in my garage, right next to my power tools.
I will sometimes use a cable and U-lock in low crime areas where I can see the bike. But it depends on the bike.
In retrospect I remember how secure I felt with my Kryptonite tubular pin tumbler...
John
06-05-20, 09:50 AM
#99
Banned
Armored cable locks.. the cable is inside a segmented length of steel tube pieces..
I have 2. 1 sold by specialized the cable inside Kevlar, rolled up in 3rds I hung its bracket from the top tube on my tourlng bike..
other one, by On guard steel cable, in the center of those eleeve segments, I hang it from the handlebars..
I don't live in an urban hell hole with roving gangs in trucks with power tools..
I have 2. 1 sold by specialized the cable inside Kevlar, rolled up in 3rds I hung its bracket from the top tube on my tourlng bike..
other one, by On guard steel cable, in the center of those eleeve segments, I hang it from the handlebars..
I don't live in an urban hell hole with roving gangs in trucks with power tools..
06-05-20, 02:30 PM
#100
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Security is a system, not an appliance.
I'm not going to run errands on a $5000 bike
My tour moto got parked where it could be watched, not necessarily by me
Cables are perfect to keep snatch and grabbers moving on
Pros will steal the whole bike rack using angle grinders.
Just know your enemy and use a proportionate response.
I'm not going to run errands on a $5000 bike
My tour moto got parked where it could be watched, not necessarily by me
Cables are perfect to keep snatch and grabbers moving on
Pros will steal the whole bike rack using angle grinders.
Just know your enemy and use a proportionate response.