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Bottom Bracket spindle loose 1986 Schwinn Prelude

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Bottom Bracket spindle loose 1986 Schwinn Prelude

Old 07-13-20, 07:28 AM
  #1  
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Bottom Bracket spindle loose 1986 Schwinn Prelude

Hi

I have a 1986 Schwinn Prelude.

There is a little play in the spindle. I test rode it and it worked fine thru all the gears.

I checked my other bikes and the spindle is tight. No play from side to side.

It wiggles back and forth about a 1/4 of a mm.

I have the pedal arm off and there is still some " play" in the spindle. Slight, but there.

Wondering what my next step should be?

Appreciate any and all help.
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Old 07-13-20, 07:32 AM
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Loosen the lockring, tighten the cup a little, re-tighten the lockring, check for play, repeat as needed.
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Old 07-13-20, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Loosen the lockring, tighten the cup a little, re-tighten the lockring, check for play, repeat as needed.
No pulling the DS crank arm, removing both cups, the spindle and bearings, cleaning the parts, evaluating for wear, measuring the DS spindle length, and eventually replacing with a cartridge bearing?
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Old 07-13-20, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam
No pulling the DS crank arm, removing both cups, the spindle and bearings, cleaning the parts, evaluating for wear, measuring the DS spindle length, and eventually replacing with a cartridge bearing?
All things considered, if the OP doesn't have all the tools to do a proper non-sealed BB service, they are probably best off adjusting the play and leaving it alone. Not that I'm against a BB repack, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it until it is.

I don't get the fetish for cartridge bottom brackets either. They wear faster, aren't rebuildable, and Shimano's installation tool for them is idiotic (especially in comparison to the Phil BB and tool). Again, if it ain't broke...

-Kurt
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Old 07-13-20, 07:54 AM
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If they were able to take the crank arm off they've got some bike specific tools. For this job you'll need an adjustable wrench to hold the adjustable cup, a lockring tool, and the crank remover/socket for the crank arm fixing bolt.

May as well take it apart, clean, grease and adjust. Essentially you want it to spin freely but without any play. Getting it to that point is a bit tricky and can take a couple tries.
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Old 07-13-20, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
All things considered, if the OP doesn't have all the tools to do a proper non-sealed BB service, they are probably best off adjusting the play and leaving it alone. Not that I'm against a BB repack, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it until it is.

I don't get the fetish for cartridge bottom brackets either. They wear faster, aren't rebuildable, and Shimano's installation tool for them is idiotic (especially in comparison to the Phil BB and tool). Again, if it ain't broke...

-Kurt
With this in mind bikemike73:
If you are unable to find an adjustment that eliminates play, while also being loose enough that you don't feel grittiness when you turn the spindle, it's probably time to open it up and see what it looks like.

Kurt, I love a good adjustable BB as much as the next guy, but they don't offer many advantages over cartridge BBs for the average cyclist.
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Old 07-13-20, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Narhay
If they were able to take the crank arm off they've got some bike specific tools.
Except those tools were enough to get to this point and no further, apparently.

Originally Posted by Unca_Sam
Kurt, I love a good adjustable BB as much as the next guy, but they don't offer many advantages over cartridge BBs for the average cyclist.
Sure. But a minty 1980's Prelude isn't an average bicycle anymore.

-Kurt
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Old 07-13-20, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
Sure. But a minty 1980's Prelude isn't an average bicycle anymore.
-Kurt
True! But I said average cyclist. What if you just want to ride it? There are enough NOS adjustable BBs out there to keep it period correct, and there's value in learning a new skill in adjusting the bearing, but the reality is that it's very difficult to find new adjustable cup BBs of mid-range quality or better outside Ebay.
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Old 07-13-20, 10:35 AM
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Thank you all for the great responses!!!

Very much appreciated

I have a crank puller and proper park tools to remove the BB, but would prefer the try to tighten the cup.
I am starting to gain a little more confidence to work on my bikes.
Latest was replacing bearings on 2 rear tires.

Thank you again for ALL the responses


Great advice as usual 🙂🚴‍♂️🚴‍♂️🚲🚲🚲🚴‍♂️🚴‍♂️🚲🚲
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Old 07-13-20, 11:03 AM
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Make sure that you hold the adjustable cup secure with wrench when tightening the lock ring; otherwise, you may end up with the adjustment too tight.
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Old 07-13-20, 11:26 AM
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I find it easiest to get a perfect adjustment when both cranks are attached so I can rock them back and forth to check for play.

As far as cartridge bottom brackets, I have a love/hate relationship with them. They make it easier for the average person to work on their bike, but are disposable rather than serviceable. I see no reason why shimano couldn't come up with a bottom bracket where the cartridges can be replaced. Hell, I wouldn't even mind too much if they forced some proprietary bearing cartridge onto us so that they could make such an idea more profitable for them. Anything to get more repairable/servicable parts in bicycling.
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Old 07-13-20, 12:49 PM
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Having rebuilt and/or adjusted hundreds of these things, I found that I like to arrive at a final tightening setting on the adjustable cup by turning the cup and lockring together into their final resting position.
Since the mating stress on the bb shell threads is much lower than on the lockring threads, I feel that having the cup itself move into final position in the shell threads will better retain tightness over the long haul, especially when the threads in the shell may be slightly dirty or simply less than perfectly smooth.

So, in this instance, where the amount of tightening is to be slight, I would first try turning the cup and ring together into a slightly tighter position, which would make the shortest work of this minor misadjustment.
From there, if more tightening is needed, I would back off the lockring by itself just a hair, like an eighth of an inch out at the periphery, then tighten the cup and ring together back into tightness.

Also, it's best to leave a bit of a rough-turning feel to the final adjustment. These aren't polished bearing races here and with the weight of the rider's loading on the pedals the bearing surface defects will level themselves elastically, so the slightly-tighter adjustment should give a longer service interval all things considered.
Such a pre-loaded adjustment also is better in terms of keeping the chainrings in-plane under the loading at the pedals, which makes for easier adjustment of the front derailer.
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Old 07-15-20, 08:50 AM
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Thanks again to all who responded

Especially Dave who I have been corresponding with

Here are some pics !!

The BB is OUT !!! Along with the plastic insert.

Just wondering if I should replace the bearings, or clean and grease ?

Looks like you just pop out the ring that is holding them in place. But I do not know for sure and do not want to ruin



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Old 07-15-20, 09:09 AM
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bikemike73 Thanks for the pictures but they are either out of focus or too dark to respond with an opinion. Clean the bearing surfaces and check for pitting or any surface anomalies. If they are clear and smooth, you can replace the BB to ensure retaining the good surface.
Example
Stronglight BB Cups, on Flickr
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Old 07-15-20, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemike73
I am starting to gain a little more confidence to work on my bikes. Latest was replacing bearings on 2 rear tires.
That's one of the most difficult jobs. If you can replace tire bearings, you can fix anything.
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Old 07-15-20, 10:15 AM
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Best practice, and good enough

In your BB, the balls are the wearing part. Best practice is to replace them (loose or in a retainer) when you have everything apart. It's not really possible for the human eye to see how worn the balls are until they're past due for replacement. New balls are shiny, and very gradually lose that shine.
However, I have cleaned the old grease off of the retainer and balls, looked for any obvious defects, and reused them if I just want to ride or the cups and spindle are already very worn. New grease and fastidious bearing setup does wonders to old components.

If you want to do both, measure the size of the balls in the retainer, and order some grade 200 up to grade 25 stainless bearings in that size. The retainer is really to make shipping and assembly easier, so you don't really need to find an exact replacement. A good bead of appropriate grease has always held the balls in the cup for me while I'm installing them.
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Old 07-17-20, 07:25 AM
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Thanks again or all the great responses.

I cleaned , greased, and reinstalled everything.

The ball bearings looked ok.

Now that I see a close up pic( attached here), I see they are in rough shape.



Have not got an an answer if the ring around the bearings pops out?


It looks like it is in the VERY tight.

Does anyone know if the ring pops out ? Or have to buy new cups?
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Old 07-17-20, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemike73
Thanks again or all the great responses.

I cleaned , greased, and reinstalled everything.

The ball bearings looked ok.

Now that I see a close up pic( attached here), I see they are in rough shape.



Have not got an an answer if the ring around the bearings pops out?


It looks like it is in the VERY tight.

Does anyone know if the ring pops out ? Or have to buy new cups?
I'm not sure if you need new cups. I haven't encountered a bottom bracket that had pressed retainers on the cups, but it's not impossible. Please post a picture of the inside (in focus, in good light).
I serviced a Sturmey Archer AW hub this week and dealt with the pressed retainers there, which meant gingerly prying the ring out of the cup with a screwdriver so the retainer didn't become distorted.
But post your pictures and show us the problem. I concur that your bearings are shot. Running them in that condition will damage the irreplaceable parts of the BB.
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Old 07-17-20, 07:54 AM
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Hey Sam
Thank s again for the info

That's why I did not attempt to remove the ring. I was afraid the ring would be damaged and then I am stuck.
I have already reassembled the entire BB.

With the naked eye the bearings looked ok .At least with my eyesight .

I took the bike for a test ride and it was ok.....not REAL smooth...but ok

I would be happy to purchase new ones already sealed like pictured but I have just started looking with no real success

The pics of the BB have the plastic tube inside. I am sorry they are a little out of focus.

Maybe I'll go down stairs today and pull everything off again. It will sure be easier the 2nd time around
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Old 07-17-20, 08:17 AM
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I've never seen a BB that clean with that many pits - are you sure that's not grease or lint from the cleaning rag on the surfaces?

If it isn't, best to replace.

-Kurt
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Old 07-17-20, 08:56 AM
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Mmmmm
I never thought of that !!!

The bearings looked clean when I took them out

I used a toothbrush after it soaked in de greaser

I did use paper towels and put it on my finger to spin many times to get the dirt off.
I am wondering if there is a special tool to remove the metal ring holding the bearings in place ?

Thank you for you response

Greatly appreciated
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Old 07-17-20, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemike73
Mmmmm
I never thought of that !!!

The bearings looked clean when I took them out

I used a toothbrush after it soaked in de greaser

I did use paper towels and put it on my finger to spin many times to get the dirt off.
I am wondering if there is a special tool to remove the metal ring holding the bearings in place ?

Thank you for you response

Greatly appreciated
I zoomed in on those bearings, and they're pitted. Toast. The retainer cap and cup are two pieces, otherwise they can't install the balls.
Consider that you don't need to reuse the retainer. The retainer holds the bearings in place while shipping or assembling, it's out of the way during use (or should be). A bead of grease holds bearings in the cup just as well.
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Old 07-17-20, 09:26 AM
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Highlighting the interface between retainer and hub shell.

I looked more closely at your earlier photos and saw that your retainer is using the same press-fit retainer, minus the raised inside annular lip (part of the labyrinthine seal used by Sturmey Archer). I'd use a screwdriver just like RJ does in
. If I was super concerned with burrs, I'd wrap the tip of the screwdriver in cloth or cut up inner tube.
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Old 07-17-20, 04:16 PM
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Thanks again for all the responses

Hey Sam thanks for the video

I was trying to figure out how the bearings would stay in place without the pressed retainer.

i do not see how it would be possible. The spindle is not big enough to push and keep the bearings in place.
I guess I'll take it apart and attempt to pry open the retainer with patience and luck.

I will keep all posted.

If anyone has a procedure for this, please share it.

Thank you all again

Stay/be safe
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Old 07-17-20, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemike73
Thanks again for all the responses

Hey Sam thanks for the video

I was trying to figure out how the bearings would stay in place without the pressed retainer.

i do not see how it would be possible. The spindle is not big enough to push and keep the bearings in place.
I guess I'll take it apart and attempt to pry open the retainer with patience and luck.

I will keep all posted.

If anyone has a procedure for this, please share it.

Thank you all again

Stay/be safe


Now, Calvin pastes the balls to the spindle which I've never done. I'll paste the balls into the cup and feed the spindle through.

The bottom bracket doesn't work as a bearing unless the spindle is in contact with the balls, which are in contact with the cup. The spindle will hold 11 1/4" balls in place.

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