Today bike suddenly began pulling right
#26
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If it doesn't turn out to be the headset, which seems most likely based on the photo of your bike pointing up with the fork not turning, a feeling of misalignment/pulling to one side can also be caused by bend saddle rails.
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I don't know anything about how you set this photo up, but I think it'd be very difficult to get the fork to stay in this position. Did it take a while to get the fork positioned just right so it would stay balanced, or is it tight enough that the fork doesn't really want to spin?
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Did it take a while to get the fork positioned just right so it would stay balanced, or is it tight enough that the fork doesn't really want to spin
Usually when I am doing something (like fine tuning a front brake), I tilt my bikes and lock them in place while I work so I don't have to stay bent and I simply find it more comfortable. Generally I find they don't flop quickly to either side though I have to steady them as I work. In this case this was easy to balance (maybe too easy?) so I see your point.
I am leaning towards (hoping) it will be the headset bearings/headset too tight (though I can't comprehend it suddenly self tightening). The danger with this is that it's tunnel vision which is why I am thinking a second set of eyes (mechanic eyes) might help. Certainly I will check the wheel dishing with a mechanic on hand to ask questions because I haven't trued a wheel in over a year and IIRC you dish after trueing?
a feeling of misalignment/pulling to one side can also be caused by bend saddle rails
I didn't see any damage to the rails but will check in a few minutes. I don't think this is the cause because the bike physically pulled to the right. It did get better when I reversed the wheel and removed the locking cable but it still doesn't "feel right" and still pulls right. It's not the camber of the road because it was still noticeable on my residential street which has very limited camber.
Lastly I forsee dumping out those Vittoria Rubino Revolutions. The gatorskins were much smoother which is a bit odd
Usually when I am doing something (like fine tuning a front brake), I tilt my bikes and lock them in place while I work so I don't have to stay bent and I simply find it more comfortable. Generally I find they don't flop quickly to either side though I have to steady them as I work. In this case this was easy to balance (maybe too easy?) so I see your point.
I am leaning towards (hoping) it will be the headset bearings/headset too tight (though I can't comprehend it suddenly self tightening). The danger with this is that it's tunnel vision which is why I am thinking a second set of eyes (mechanic eyes) might help. Certainly I will check the wheel dishing with a mechanic on hand to ask questions because I haven't trued a wheel in over a year and IIRC you dish after trueing?
a feeling of misalignment/pulling to one side can also be caused by bend saddle rails
I didn't see any damage to the rails but will check in a few minutes. I don't think this is the cause because the bike physically pulled to the right. It did get better when I reversed the wheel and removed the locking cable but it still doesn't "feel right" and still pulls right. It's not the camber of the road because it was still noticeable on my residential street which has very limited camber.
Lastly I forsee dumping out those Vittoria Rubino Revolutions. The gatorskins were much smoother which is a bit odd
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If the fork doesn't turn when the head tube is horizontal, I'd think that the headset's too tight, or that a bearing race in the head set cracked or the steer tube is cracked/separating from the fork crown.
The weird thing is that you were riding, and you felt the bike handling change suddenly. The cable lock helped. Hmmm. Could it have pushed against the brake cable?
Given the issue, I'd pull the fork and really inspect it and check to see if you can observe any cracks opening up when you put weight on it. And, as I said above, check the bearing races.
I'm guessing that you're about 6'5". And if so, likely not less then 200lbs And you have a very big frame. This would make a frame issue more likely than on a smaller bike with a small rider.
Is this a Japanese Fuji, or a Tawainese?
The weird thing is that you were riding, and you felt the bike handling change suddenly. The cable lock helped. Hmmm. Could it have pushed against the brake cable?
Given the issue, I'd pull the fork and really inspect it and check to see if you can observe any cracks opening up when you put weight on it. And, as I said above, check the bearing races.
I'm guessing that you're about 6'5". And if so, likely not less then 200lbs And you have a very big frame. This would make a frame issue more likely than on a smaller bike with a small rider.
Is this a Japanese Fuji, or a Tawainese?
#30
Steel is real
As I said it is running better than yesterday morning, now that I reversed the wheel and removed the lock cable.
I pulled on front forks from either side and same with rear triangle. Both sides. No cracks found anywhere. I set the bike up in the stand and turned it so it was standing end and the wheel didn't flop over. Both wheels fully seated in fork dropouts and centered. I even photo'd the front axle from either side and compared the photos.
Using the alignment tool and also string test the frame appears straight.
I plan to bring to the Co-op this evening and have the mechanics look at it. Between now and then I have some wife jobs but will try and replace the headset bearings. Hoping having a second set of eyes will see what I didn't.
Please note that when I something is working that doesn't mean it is working, it's just that I think it's working which might not be the same thing!
The forks are parallel (see photo 3)
Wheel is centered between forks (photo is offset to right)
Bike balances on end without front wheel flopping
I pulled on front forks from either side and same with rear triangle. Both sides. No cracks found anywhere. I set the bike up in the stand and turned it so it was standing end and the wheel didn't flop over. Both wheels fully seated in fork dropouts and centered. I even photo'd the front axle from either side and compared the photos.
Using the alignment tool and also string test the frame appears straight.
I plan to bring to the Co-op this evening and have the mechanics look at it. Between now and then I have some wife jobs but will try and replace the headset bearings. Hoping having a second set of eyes will see what I didn't.
Please note that when I something is working that doesn't mean it is working, it's just that I think it's working which might not be the same thing!
The forks are parallel (see photo 3)
Wheel is centered between forks (photo is offset to right)
Bike balances on end without front wheel flopping
Something your mechanic can check out, and the wheel dishing
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If you pick up the bike and tip it, the front wheel should flop to one side. If the wheel stays straight and needs a hand tom flop over, the head set bearings are too tight. From turning back and forth during normal riding a loose headset bearing can tighten itself up, that would be from not tightening the lock nut against the bearing enough. Turn bars back and forth with the front wheel off the ground. Does that make it feel rough or like it had small notches? If it does the bearings are or were too tight and dented the surface where the balls travel.
#32
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When all else fails, check the engine.
Seriously, not kidding. If you ever suffer from allergies, sinus congestion or any issues that may affect balance, it can feel like something's wrong with the bike. Been there, done that.
Besides chronic allergies with congestion so bad my head sometimes feels like it's filled with molten lead, I also have an old neck injury with screwed up C1 and C2 top vertebrae. If I hit a bump too hard and jolt my neck, I'll feel a little off balance for a few moments. One of the reasons why I'm extremely cautious in fast group rides -- I'd rather take a chance on losing the draft and needing to sprint to close a gap rather than risk endangering other riders or myself. If I'm not feeling 100% I'll drop to the back or bail out.
Bike balance can be affected by any additional load toward the front. A handlebar bag can greatly affect handling. Ditto a U-lock mounted on the top tube near the headset of one of my hybrids -- took a few rides to adapt to the different handling. I see your bike has what appears to be a coiled cable lock around the top tube near the headset in one photo. And that metal water bottle looks like a loose fit in the downtube cage. Anything like that may affect balance and handling.
Some folks claim they can feel saddle bags wobbling around behind them. I can't, but it may be a personal thing or differences in bike design. I have a somewhat wobbly saddle bag on one road bike and a snug-fitting, low profile and lightweight Lezyne Road Caddy on another. Can't say I feel any difference back there even on fast or slow turns and quick manuevers.
Regarding wheel dishing, while it's worth checking out -- including proper spoke tensioning -- it's unlikely to cause major balance problems. I've ridden my hybrids and road bikes with off-center wheels a few times and had no problems. It's not a good practice. But it didn't cause the bike to "pull". The nature of two wheels and the gyro effect tends to be remarkably forgiving of alignment errors. Even at slow speeds I haven't noticed any particular problems with front or rear wheels that needed to be re-dished or to have the axles, cones and lock washers adjusted to center a wheel.
Seriously, not kidding. If you ever suffer from allergies, sinus congestion or any issues that may affect balance, it can feel like something's wrong with the bike. Been there, done that.
Besides chronic allergies with congestion so bad my head sometimes feels like it's filled with molten lead, I also have an old neck injury with screwed up C1 and C2 top vertebrae. If I hit a bump too hard and jolt my neck, I'll feel a little off balance for a few moments. One of the reasons why I'm extremely cautious in fast group rides -- I'd rather take a chance on losing the draft and needing to sprint to close a gap rather than risk endangering other riders or myself. If I'm not feeling 100% I'll drop to the back or bail out.
Bike balance can be affected by any additional load toward the front. A handlebar bag can greatly affect handling. Ditto a U-lock mounted on the top tube near the headset of one of my hybrids -- took a few rides to adapt to the different handling. I see your bike has what appears to be a coiled cable lock around the top tube near the headset in one photo. And that metal water bottle looks like a loose fit in the downtube cage. Anything like that may affect balance and handling.
Some folks claim they can feel saddle bags wobbling around behind them. I can't, but it may be a personal thing or differences in bike design. I have a somewhat wobbly saddle bag on one road bike and a snug-fitting, low profile and lightweight Lezyne Road Caddy on another. Can't say I feel any difference back there even on fast or slow turns and quick manuevers.
Regarding wheel dishing, while it's worth checking out -- including proper spoke tensioning -- it's unlikely to cause major balance problems. I've ridden my hybrids and road bikes with off-center wheels a few times and had no problems. It's not a good practice. But it didn't cause the bike to "pull". The nature of two wheels and the gyro effect tends to be remarkably forgiving of alignment errors. Even at slow speeds I haven't noticed any particular problems with front or rear wheels that needed to be re-dished or to have the axles, cones and lock washers adjusted to center a wheel.
#33
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Usually when I am doing something (like fine tuning a front brake), I tilt my bikes and lock them in place while I work so I don't have to stay bent and I simply find it more comfortable. Generally I find they don't flop quickly to either side though I have to steady them as I work. In this case this was easy to balance (maybe too easy?) so I see your point.
A common way to measure this is to hold the bike by the saddle, and let the front wheel hang down low. If you turn the fork to one side, the weight of the wheel should pull it back to center. It should turn freely, almost like a pendulum. In general, I adjust my headsets so that they're too loose (and click or wobble when I rock the bike with the front brake on) and then just sneak up on "tight enough" with the adjustment. Once I'm just tight enough that the click is gone and it feels solid, that's it.
This may or may not be your problem, but you may have the opportunity to adjust the headset in any event. :-)
#34
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The nice thing about posting here is all the good ideas and good advice.
The awkward part is that when you F-up (like I did) you have to publicly admit it what you did, so here I go.
It seems that every and I mean every bike that I ever worked on I overtightened the headset. I believed that you torqued the headset as tight as possible, as long as the bars turned you were okay. The headset on my Fuji was as tight as I could make it.
I still don't know what caused the pulling to the right to suddenly start yesterday but I took it to the co-op tonight and a mechanic gave it a test ride. He said pull the headset, and then I pulled the forks and then we checked the wheels and the frame and found nothing damaged. When I reassembled the front the light bulb finally came on. I was politely told how to properly set up the headset and now the front steers smoothly with a relaxed feel on either side.
The only question is why the headset didn't jam up before this or even break! Even the inside of the cups was still smooth! Whoever built these bikes must have known some enthusiastic amateur would be hard on them and made sure they used only the best materials and designs.
Anyway I'll just have to admit it. I'm the proof. It's not the bike in this case it was the mechanic.
The awkward part is that when you F-up (like I did) you have to publicly admit it what you did, so here I go.
It seems that every and I mean every bike that I ever worked on I overtightened the headset. I believed that you torqued the headset as tight as possible, as long as the bars turned you were okay. The headset on my Fuji was as tight as I could make it.
I still don't know what caused the pulling to the right to suddenly start yesterday but I took it to the co-op tonight and a mechanic gave it a test ride. He said pull the headset, and then I pulled the forks and then we checked the wheels and the frame and found nothing damaged. When I reassembled the front the light bulb finally came on. I was politely told how to properly set up the headset and now the front steers smoothly with a relaxed feel on either side.
The only question is why the headset didn't jam up before this or even break! Even the inside of the cups was still smooth! Whoever built these bikes must have known some enthusiastic amateur would be hard on them and made sure they used only the best materials and designs.
Anyway I'll just have to admit it. I'm the proof. It's not the bike in this case it was the mechanic.
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#35
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WGB, It takes some guts to come out and admit that. Thanks for sharing this - interesting to see how the predictions line up with what was actually happening (my batting record on this thread isn't great either!)
So all the bikes you've ridden have graunched-on headsets? Wow. And the bearings in the headset were fine and worked ok after you gave the bearing a little more play? Those are indeed good bearings.
Glad you got it solved. And you learned something.
BTW, on certain precision Swiss milling machines, the preload is set by spinning the race down onto the ball bearings, and then tightening 6° or something like that. Sounds weird but that's what allows the machines to give precision (low runout - in the 20-30 millionths of an inch) for long periods. But those bearings are ultrprecision and a set (two races and balls) can run 5 grand.
So all the bikes you've ridden have graunched-on headsets? Wow. And the bearings in the headset were fine and worked ok after you gave the bearing a little more play? Those are indeed good bearings.
Glad you got it solved. And you learned something.
BTW, on certain precision Swiss milling machines, the preload is set by spinning the race down onto the ball bearings, and then tightening 6° or something like that. Sounds weird but that's what allows the machines to give precision (low runout - in the 20-30 millionths of an inch) for long periods. But those bearings are ultrprecision and a set (two races and balls) can run 5 grand.
Last edited by WizardOfBoz; 10-08-19 at 10:12 PM.
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#36
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The nice thing about posting here is all the good ideas and good advice.
The awkward part is that when you F-up (like I did) you have to publicly admit it what you did, so here I go.
...
Anyway I'll just have to admit it. I'm the proof. It's not the bike in this case it was the mechanic.
The awkward part is that when you F-up (like I did) you have to publicly admit it what you did, so here I go.
...
Anyway I'll just have to admit it. I'm the proof. It's not the bike in this case it was the mechanic.
If anything, we think higher of you for telling us; a real man admits his mistakes.
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#37
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I had another guess before I got to the end that I didn't see mentioned, so here goes. Maybe the new tires weren't mounted properly? Sometimes this can happen but I don't think it would be enough to make it pull one way or the other.
But since you figured it out I guess not.
But since you figured it out I guess not.
#38
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Headset bearings also tighten up as the sludge and rust builds up in there.