ImTheDecider

Hey guys,

I’ve been looking for a do-everything bike for suburban commuting through paved roads, gravel paths, and a small field (plus joy rides in the woods and around town) for a while and was originally looking at gravel bikes. The pandemic has made the process so slow, that now I’m changing my mind and considering buying a Tumbleweed Prospector and loading it out with all road tires, dynamo front light, fenders, and a front basket and using it as a commuter/around town and everywhere else bike. (I just want to own one bike). See link below.

Any reason this is a bad idea? It’s really a MTB frame, but I really want a Rohloff equipped bike and this is one of the few frames available in the US with them. And I also think it will make for a more upright and comfortable ride than something like an All-City Space Horse, but I worry I’m sacrificing too much speed (I like to go fast) on pavement, which I’ll be riding on 75% of the time. I may also be overly fixated on the Rohloff, I’m sure GRX will suit me just fine .

https://tumbleweed.cc/collections/bi...cts/prospector

Sardines

Well, for less money, you can get a Priority 600, and can get a spare set of wheels with better off road tires. It does not have the tire clearance like the Prospector. The Pinion gearbox for me is bullet proof and a lot less noisy than the Rohloff, which I got rid of after a year. That 6-8 gear noise, . You can't easily change wheels with a Rohloff. All you need is a high engagement hub with the Pinion. With lower maintenance and the possibility to go up to the P1.18 later if you so desire. I would try to ask for a P1.18 straight away but most
Best of all, the gearing of the Pinion, even the c.1.12 tops out faster than the Rohloff. And you can tune it for the top end with a cog sprocket change. I love my pinion for the low maintenance, but it does have a minuscule delay in engagement after backpedaling.
The Priority 600 can be loaded up as well, with mount points for front and rear racks. I don't like their front rack though.
Internal gear hubs like Rohloff, Alfine etc , or a Pinion box, are awesome when combined with a belt drive. They don't need too much maintenance and just keep working. You can get a Rohloff on most any frame that's not Pinion ready.

ImTheDecider

I did look for Pinion bikes and found the Co-Motion Americano and Divide. They are very expensive, though. On the other hand, I don’t love the styling of the Priority and I feel like it’s not expensive enough. The gearbox is a large % of the price of that bike, so I have to assume the rest of the components aren’t top notch. And specifically, the frame is aluminum and not steel. I’m pretty set on steel for comfort purposes and I like the aesthetic.

Any thoughts on the Co-Motion options? Did you really hate the Rohloff that much? I listened to the noise on Youtube, I think I’d either love it or hate it in practice… hard to tell which.

Darth Lefty 

It's tough to see how the $4600 is justifiable when you could start with several different Surly or Salsa frames or probably others and do the same kind of build... even less if you shop for those used. But if you feel like $2300 for the Priority is not expensive enough then I guess it's perfect.

Not a fan of the set-screw EBB either

ImTheDecider

I hear you, it does look like the Surlies and Salsas are good options. Do you have a P600? I’m not ruling it out, just worried that I’d want to replace it in 10 years.

Darth Lefty 

I have a couple of Salsas and like them but I buy cheap builds and upgrade piecemeal when opportunities arise. A Rohloff is not something I am looking at.

This being the commuting forum, B+ tires are kind of pigs for commuting. Enough people found them pigs overall that they are gradually disappearing, as are the bikes made for them (like the ECR, to keep on this topic, and the Stache). The brakes on that thing are kind of primitive too. Everything else looks pretty solid but hardly premium or "timeless" either

anga

https://www.rohloff.de/en/service/search/bike-finder
Lists almost all bikes using Rohloff.

I am sort of biased against EBBs.

Sardines

The Rohloff was actually very good and responsive, but I'm sensitive to that crunching noise around 6th gear, which is usually on some sort of climb, so it's nerve wracking to hear metal noises while you're pedaling hard uphill! Then there is the service interval @3k miles which means maintenance. Also the weight is on the back wheel, which dynamically isn't a big deal, especially on pavement, until you ride a Pinion with a centered weight and lower CoG on a trail. At 6k service interval, a soft whirring gear noise when running, and wide ratio, not to mention the Gates belt drive for low maintenance, I think it's a progression from the Rohloff, which is still good, just not as good as a Pinion for me.
Yes the pinion brands jump a lot in price from the Priority 600, which we got after a long test from a friend's ride, to the next tier of pricing, which are mostly custom bikes. We have 3 pinions in the house, 2 Alu and 1 Ti. The other 2 are customs. If you are willing to spend more, then also look at Tout Terrain, Nicholai, Boettcher and Santos, but most of these at Alu/Ti bikes.
Which brings me to frame material, I personally don't want the extra weight of steel bikes, and find that the comfort feel is mostly in the seat post and fork, so if you get carbon for both, it would alleviate the feel issue without the weight penalty of steel. With a commuter/tourer/gravel, I want a faster lighter bike, something few steel bikes can claim to be. A racked and decked out steel bike would easily be in the 38++ lbs range. My Ti fully decked P1.18 tourer is about 27lbs (with 622x37c). My Jongerius Alu P1.18 is around 34lbs. The P600 will probably be in the 35lbs range decked out.
I looked at the Co-Motion but the components don't appeal, nor did the weight once fully equipped. I like the SS coupling for travel. I am telling you what I want in a bike. From what you've stipulated, a lighter, faster bike with a modest luggage capability seems to be what you want. I went a bit nuts with the Ti, and would really love to retire the folding with a carbon Pinion. Frankly, if I weren't lazy, a derailleur system works well. But I'm doing 100-120 miles a week with commute, that means weekly chain cleaning and lubing. Not for me! haha

ImTheDecider

Man, this super helpful. Opening up to alu bikes would be a huge help for the reason you describe, and because there are just so many more alu bikes. Do you think there’s a difference in longevity with aluminum, though? I don’t want a frame I’ll have to toss in ten years.

But you’re dead on: a lighter bike with modest luggage capacity is perfect. I don’t need something I can load up with 100 lbs of bags. I haven’t backpacked in a while, but when I go backpacking I’m carrying like 15-20 lbs max. So even if I do go bikepacking with this thing, I’m not gonna need 100 lbs luggage capacity.

Sardines

Hahaha I'm Sardines, not Nostradamus! I've seen all materials fail on tours and trails, but only steel frames can replace a tube or has spot weld repairs! My carbon wheel cracked on a pot hole in Ladakh, but the Alu bike it was on didn't even flinch. My tubus steel. rack also broke in Kazakhstan, as did my Alu wheel. On paper, Alu has longevity issues, but in practice I don't see bunch of people with 9 year old bikes suddenly reporting in the 10th year it all fell apart. Then again, I've been riding for 20+ years and the oldest bike I have is 8 years old! haha. There's a reason why a few bike companies give lifetime warranties on Alu and steel frames, cos they are strong and lasting enough for 99.9% of riders. 6061 and 7005 aluminum are strong even If you bike through 10 miles of hills every day, as long as you don't crash! Maybe the guys who ride for a living, pros etc may get the bike to a point within 5-10 years where the hairline cracks will show up, but technology has improved, as has welding like CAAD10/smooth welding to reduce stress points. I'd be worried about the longevity of carbon frames before Alu. I'd get a gravel, road+ or touring frame that's under 30lbs with a rear rack, then get an extra set of wheels for road. Although nowdays there are quality lightish road+/gravel tires like Panaracer GravelKing etc, which have very decent road manners and half decent gravel grip.

Darth Lefty 

If you are worried about bikes lasting ten years you could buy ten $460 bikes...

Sardines

Or buy a Ti custom and fret every time there's a ding! haha

Darth Lefty 

ImTheDecider there's a Rohloff Krampus size M for sale today on Facebook in the Salsa & Surly Trader group