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why would a dropout spacing gauge have a 145mm section?

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why would a dropout spacing gauge have a 145mm section?

Old 09-24-23, 10:58 AM
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unterhausen
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why would a dropout spacing gauge have a 145mm section?

I see that Alex Wetmore used to sell one that was 145mm, but I'm sure I don't understand why.
Alex Wetmore is always busy with something? Store: Framebuilding Tools
The one I have was made by a waterjet, so it's not Alex's gauge.

I'm designing one that has 100, 110, 120, 126, 130, 135, 142, 148, 150,157,190, and 197. Unfortunately my cad model predicts it will be so heavy that my height gauge won't be able to stand up.
Actually, since I already have gauges with the older widths, I probably will just do 110, 142, and 148.
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Old 09-24-23, 11:05 AM
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I might add sections for SoN dropouts. Gotta think about that, it makes it asymmetric.
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Old 09-24-23, 11:37 AM
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I think my 1993 7-speed Santana with a Hope Edco hub and Arai brake uses 145 OLD spacing.
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Old 09-24-23, 02:18 PM
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Okay, tandem hub. That makes sense.
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Old 09-24-23, 03:44 PM
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Yup, tandems were 140, 145, and 160mm. Today it seems it would be better to default to 142mm or 148mm thru-axle for a stronger interface.
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Old 09-24-23, 04:21 PM
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unterhausen
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Not sure why I did this, but here we go:
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Old 09-25-23, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
I'm designing one that has 100, 110, 120, 126, 130, 135, 142, 148, 150,157,190, and 197.
I was just thinking about this yesterday. I have Hahn Rossman's gauge, but I also have a mid-50s Automoto frame, which probably shipped with a four-speed rear derailleur and freewheel. My vague recollection is that the spacing for that would have been 114 or 116. You missed both of them. (I just aligned it to 120 and am looking for a five-speed Simplex Tour de France rear derailleur. If anyone has one in their stash, let's talk.)

As to weight, would it make sense to create two gauges instead of just one (probably split between smaller and larger dimensions)? Most people will likely only need a subset of all those spacings I'd think, certainly on a day-to-day basis.
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Old 09-25-23, 09:00 AM
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For the weight issue, you could drill some speed holes in the middle of the plate.
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Old 09-25-23, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
Not sure why I did this, but here we go:
That belongs on the jerseys of the Western (some state that begins with "I")'s foot ball team.
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Old 09-25-23, 02:10 PM
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The big one would be difficult to use, and cost too much to have laser cut. This one is quite a bit cheaper. I was going to make it into a truss, but that drives up costs and I was having trouble making a design I liked. So I just cut out a hole to see if it might be useful for any reason.

100 110 130 142 148 are all the sizes I'm likely to use. If I figure out some other configuration, it would be easy to modify the model and have a different one cut. I did think about just 3d printing them for a minute, but laser is affordable and more permanent. I'm going to try to get them to label the steps.

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Old 09-25-23, 02:22 PM
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unterhausen My Rossman gauge has a hole or two. Handy for hanging from a pegboard, if nothing else.
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Old 09-25-23, 04:27 PM
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I bought a SoN SL dummy axle from Hahn recently, so I have seen his gauge. Interesting for him to choose 135 instead of 130.

Maybe I should make the holes symmetric like he did. I have another gauge, but I temporarily misplaced it.

I haven't quite figured out how to get text done, can't be too hard.
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Old 09-25-23, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
I bought a SoN SL dummy axle from Hahn recently, so I have seen his gauge. Interesting for him to choose 135 instead of 130.
Weird. Mine's got 100, 120, 130 & 135, but lacks 126, which is rather have than 135. I've only used it for the Automoto at this point, so I can't claim to have missed the 126 gauge yet.

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Old 09-25-23, 05:50 PM
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I didn't think about him having two versions. I'm never building a 126 again, I don't think. I was mostly joking about it, but I can see why some people would want to have that width.
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Old 09-25-23, 05:57 PM
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Related question, how do you attach yours to your height gauge? My vintage Mitutoyo has a holder for a much bigger attachment, taller and wider. So far, I've just packed the space with some random chunks of steel, but one o' these days I will machine a proper spacer.

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Old 09-25-23, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bulgie
Related question, how do you attach yours to your height gauge?
I have a much less expensive height gauge Hahn pointed out to me. My gauge fits in it perfectly. I can take a picture and dig up the reference of you want.
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Old 09-25-23, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by smontanaro
I have a much less expensive height gauge Hahn pointed out to me. My gauge fits in it perfectly. I can take a picture and dig up the reference of you want.
Yes please I would like that, thanks. I could see buying a dedicated "stand" for this gauge (as long as it's not expensive), since it's never used for an absolute measurement, only relative.
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Old 09-25-23, 07:10 PM
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I think a lot of people would be interested in a cheaper height gauge. I think I saw a dropout gauge mounted on a test tube holder when I was doing an image search yesterday.
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Old 09-25-23, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bulgie
Yes please I would like that, thanks. I could see buying a dedicated "stand" for this gauge (as long as it's not expensive), since it's never used for an absolute measurement, only relative.
Here's the gauge Hahn pointed me to, which I purchased.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/350824177232

Doug Fattic has a cool dedicated gauge from Loco Machine, which is apparently NLA (both the gauge and Loco Machine as far as I can tell). I don't have a good isolated photo of it, but this cropped image gives you the basic idea. Set it on the seat tube, tighten the screws, then off you go. Not as delicate as a height gauge either.


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Old 09-25-23, 07:50 PM
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I've followed this thread with little to add till now. I have two gages, see below images.


I would have chosen a couple of different widths for the way that I use them but that's not why I reply. I made a shim of sorts that made the gages' tongue better fit in the height gage I have which reduced the gage's wondering side to side. But, again, not why I post.

The aspect I wonder about is the gage being parallel to the flat surface. Mine are water cut (if I have it right) and the tongue's edge that sits on the height gage jaw is fairly rough. I have measured the height off the width steps above the surface plate then reversed the gage (think trying to check a wheel's dish by flipping it in a frame) and found the heights of the width steps to be slightly different. I also have thought about having the tongue located so one edge was on center with the Vee.

Granted this isn't rocket science and small tolerances as long as understood are fine to work around. Andy (who notes the added weight epoxied to the height gage base to counter the width gage)
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Old 09-26-23, 12:37 AM
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I have a compass gauge, which I believe was made by Hahn. I think the edge is machined. Mine has very sharp edges, which probably should be broken. Maybe a little light filing with a fine file or a stone.

It fits right in my height gauge clamp perfectly. I think there may be a couple of different height gauge probe styles though. When I was shopping for used height gauges, it was impressive how many of them were missing the clamp. If you have to buy a new one, it costs as much or more as a used gauge.

I might change my design to be like the one from Loco machine. My mill isn't working, so it would be bolted to the side of the upright. I'm not sure how useful the straight edge is on the other side, I'll have to see how much it costs.

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Old 09-26-23, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by smontanaro
Here's the gauge Hahn pointed me to, which I purchased.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/350824177232
Thanks Skip. I'm trying not to buy Chinese-made tools, and I don't need the dial, so I will look for something used and simpler (vernier maybe). Nice to know there are stands that take the smaller dimension of the Wetmore gauge "natively" without packing spacers. Now I know what to look for.

-mb
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Old 09-26-23, 06:03 PM
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my other height gauge was apparently meant to mount a test indicator. There are quite a few used indicator bases on ebay, like this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/17591993885...mis&media=COPY

Lots of used 'murican ones on ebay. You have to work out how to clamp the gauge onto it. I made a block on a mill.
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Old 09-27-23, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by bulgie
Related question, how do you attach yours to your height gauge? My vintage Mitutoyo has a holder for a much bigger attachment, taller and wider. So far, I've just packed the space with some random chunks of steel, but one o' these days I will machine a proper spacer.

I had the same problem. I made a spacer that I attached to the Compass guage thing with 2 small screws. It takes up the space in my height guage mounting thingy.
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Old 09-27-23, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by duanedr
I had the same problem. I made a spacer that I attached to the Compass guage thing with 2 small screws. It takes up the space in my height guage mounting thingy.
Yeah that's what I'm going to do, I decided I don't need two height gauges. I'll just switch between the carbide scriber point on the Mitutoyo and the Compass thingum, it's a 2-second job to swap 'em.. Bolting the spacer to the Compass isn't strictly necessary, but it'll prevent it getting lost. Thanks for the idea.
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