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Advantage of upgraded wheels?

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Advantage of upgraded wheels?

Old 01-17-22, 10:02 PM
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BrazAd
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Advantage of upgraded wheels?

Gang,

I bought a 2021 Salsa Warbird 600 about 4 weeks ago. Stock wheels are WTB ST Light i23 TCS - they weigh about 2,170 grams for the set, I understand.

I'm looking at a set of Zipp 303 S carbon wheels.

I ride at around 15-16 mph on mostly dirt roads. What advantages will a set of carbon wheels give me over the stock wheelset, other than reduced weight?

Thanks,

Gary
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Old 01-17-22, 11:51 PM
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Carbon wheels are a oblique advantage ....

You will be working more hours to afford them ....your boss will probably like this

If you apply a little effort you will possibly gain 'health benefits' .....if you jog ( or better yet - RUN ) to the bank to make the deposit to your account to cover the payment for your purchase
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Old 01-18-22, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BrazAd View Post
Gang,

I bought a 2021 Salsa Warbird 600 about 4 weeks ago. Stock wheels are WTB ST Light i23 TCS - they weigh about 2,170 grams for the set, I understand.

I'm looking at a set of Zipp 303 S carbon wheels.

I ride at around 15-16 mph on mostly dirt roads. What advantages will a set of carbon wheels give me over the stock wheelset, other than reduced weight?

Thanks,

Gary
Is that not enough?
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Old 01-18-22, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Is that not enough?
Well, perhaps not! If that's the only benefit then $1,200 for one pound doesn't work, at least for me.

Gary
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Old 01-18-22, 07:10 AM
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Wouldn't work for me either.
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Old 01-18-22, 07:38 AM
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BrazAd you can make a better value proposition looking at aluminum wheels, for example the Spinergy GX, which are $740, wider internally, and 1.5lbs lighter. You also gain the comfort benefits of the PBO spokes…oh, and you can pick a complementary spoke color! I’ve been running GX the past 11 months or so, and they’ve been great under my 240lbs mass, but there are other options, too, like the HED Emporia GA Performance, which is also wider internally than the i23, 1665g for the wheelset, and $750.

That said, deep section carbon rims are stiff, strong, and aerodynamic, so those are potential benefits, though wheel strength is not so much an issue these days I think.

Aesthetically, a strong case can be made for aero carbon rims, too.
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Old 01-18-22, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BrazAd View Post
I ride at around 15-16 mph on mostly dirt roads. What advantages will a set of carbon wheels give me over the stock wheelset, other than reduced weight?
Other than reduced weight, what are you hoping to gain?

And even the reduced weight will have a near-trivial impact on your average speed. Instead of blowing cash on wheels, you'll end up faster if you use the money to buy some vacation time and spend it training.
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Old 01-18-22, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
BrazAd you can make a better value proposition looking at aluminum wheels, for example the Spinergy GX, which are $740, wider internally, and 1.5lbs lighter. You also gain the comfort benefits of the PBO spokes…oh, and you can pick a complementary spoke color! I’ve been running GX the past 11 months or so, and they’ve been great under my 240lbs mass, but there are other options, too, like the HED Emporia GA Performance, which is also wider internally than the i23, 1665g for the wheelset, and $750.

That said, deep section carbon rims are stiff, strong, and aerodynamic, so those are potential benefits, though wheel strength is not so much an issue these days I think.

Aesthetically, a strong case can be made for aero carbon rims, too.
Thanks - this is the kind of dialogue I was hoping to read. I know speed difference isn't going to be a major issue... other than from better rolling resistance, faster spin up, etc - those are things I've read about in reviews and wonder if they are true or not.

One friend has a set of Boyd CCC aluminum wheels... two others, carbon... all who got rid of the boat anchor OEM wheels.

Thanks again! I have some long gravel races/rides coming up and would like to be ready when they get here!

Gary
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Old 01-18-22, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BrazAd View Post
Thanks - this is the kind of dialogue I was hoping to read. I know speed difference isn't going to be a major issue... other than from better rolling resistance, faster spin up, etc - those are things I've read about in reviews and wonder if they are true or not.

One friend has a set of Boyd CCC aluminum wheels... two others, carbon... all who got rid of the boat anchor OEM wheels.

Thanks again! I have some long gravel races/rides coming up and would like to be ready when they get here!

Gary
If you're committed to the new wheels, just bear in mind that some of the wheels you're discussing have some very proprietary parts. If you have any problems, repairs could be troublesome. A good shop (or online wheelbuilder) can put together some hubs, spokes, and rims that will result in a nice light wheelset that, in the event of a problem, can more easily be serviced anywhere.
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Old 01-18-22, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BrazAd View Post
Thanks - this is the kind of dialogue I was hoping to read. I know speed difference isn't going to be a major issue... other than from better rolling resistance, faster spin up, etc - those are things I've read about in reviews and wonder if they are true or not.

One friend has a set of Boyd CCC aluminum wheels... two others, carbon... all who got rid of the boat anchor OEM wheels.

Thanks again! I have some long gravel races/rides coming up and would like to be ready when they get here!

Gary
I definitely think that lighter wheels feel more lively and responsive. I mean, to get to the end of the ride as fast as possible you’re going to have to leave it all out on the road regardless of how your wheels feel, and so to some extent, stuff like liveliness and responsiveness are small potatoes, but at the margins, that’s where those little gains can add up. I think that, sometimes, that first second of throwing down gap-bridging power and whether the bike responds to it, is when I decide if I can do it or not, and particularly as a heavy rider over rolling terrain, I know that losing a wheel can set up a disastrous chain of challenges, so responsiveness is top wheel priority for me, making low weight super important.

Other riding styles and conditions could prioritize something like aero gains, or simply prefer a more balanced set of wheel attributes. You’ll just have decide where on the matrix of cost, depth, width and weight is the sweet spot for your needs.
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Old 01-18-22, 08:41 PM
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I's buy a set of DT Swiss aluminum wheels or Easton EA90s that run $800 - $900 ish (have not checked prices lately) and spend the savings on other things you want. These will weigh in at about 1500 grams give or take a bit and will last as long as that beautiful warbird. Those are pretty heavy stock wheels that came with it however.

No advantage to carbon other than weight, and frankly some carbon wheels are so stiff that they are less comfortable on gravel because they do not have enough 'give' to take the edge off of rough roads.
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Old 01-19-22, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by dwmckee View Post
I's buy a set of DT Swiss aluminum wheels or Easton EA90s that run $800 - $900 ish (have not checked prices lately)...
Yeah, the EA90s are great road wheels. Do you think their 19.5mm IW is a little narrow for gravel-sized tires, though? Probably the 25mm IW EA90 AX are a better choice, weighing in at 1625g with 21mm depth.
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Old 01-19-22, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by BrazAd View Post
I ride at around 15-16 mph on mostly dirt roads. What advantages will a set of carbon wheels give me over the stock wheelset, other than reduced weight?
No advantage beyond that.

And based on that single advantage, you will have a disadvantage compared to higher spec'd aluminum wheelsets- you will have less money with the Zipp wheels.
You can buy some quality aluminum wheels that weigh 1700g for $450-600.
If the 170 or so grams difference is worth it or if you really want carbon wheels, then cool, buy the Zipp wheels. Its fun to own nice things.

The Zipp wheels use j-bend spokes and brass nipples, which is nice to see. Easily serviced if/when needed.


If this is what you want, $990 with free 3 day shipping is pretty darn solid. That really narrows the gap. https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-w...ation=12631662
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Old 01-19-22, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Yeah, the EA90s are great road wheels. Do you think their 19.5mm IW is a little narrow for gravel-sized tires, though? Probably the 25mm IW EA90 AX are a better choice, weighing in at 1625g with 21mm depth.
The AX width may be 'more ideal' for a wider tire, but 19.5 internal width is hardly dangerous or likely to lead to an issue.
The EA90 AX retail for $100 less than the EA90 SL, so that too is definitely a plus.
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Old 01-19-22, 11:58 AM
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The only real difference in riding relates to rim (and thus tire) width. Maybe it's my imagination but going from 23 to 25 mm internal width on my front wheel got me my fastest time down a fast gravel road that I had ridden many times before. Carbon wheels are mostly not that much lighter than what you can get with aluminum and for sure you can get a quality aluminum wheel set for less than carbon.
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Old 01-19-22, 02:34 PM
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I will disagree with everyone and tell you the ONLY reason I bought carbon wheels. Durability. After going through two sets of alloy rims cracking at the spoke holes (and I'm only 185lbs) I went with a pair of Bontrager PRO 3Vs. I'm money ahead if they last me only three years.
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Old 01-19-22, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Yeah, the EA90s are great road wheels. Do you think their 19.5mm IW is a little narrow for gravel-sized tires, though? Probably the 25mm IW EA90 AX are a better choice, weighing in at 1625g with 21mm depth.
Yep, sorry I should have added AX on there...
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Old 01-19-22, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
I will disagree with everyone and tell you the ONLY reason I bought carbon wheels. Durability. After going through two sets of alloy rims cracking at the spoke holes (and I'm only 185lbs) I went with a pair of Bontrager PRO 3Vs. I'm money ahead if they last me only three years.
Thanks for this - it's something I hadn't thought about. At my current weight of 235 (still going down, hope to land around 215 by mid-summer), this is a consideration.

I'm riding a '21 Warbird - what a great bike! Which carbon wheelset are you riding?

Gary
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Old 01-19-22, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BrazAd View Post
Thanks for this - it's something I hadn't thought about. At my current weight of 235 (still going down, hope to land around 215 by mid-summer), this is a consideration.

I'm riding a '21 Warbird - what a great bike! Which carbon wheelset are you riding?

Gary
Yep, like I said Bontrager Pro 3V. This video sold me on them, along with the warranty.
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Old 01-20-22, 10:01 AM
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Not much more to add to this thread on the alloy vs carbon debate. But I will add that rim depth will play a role in how compliant and/or comfortable the carbon wheels are. The Zipp 303s is a 45mm deep wheel. All that extra material makes for a stiffer, less compliant, wheel.

I too am a bigger guy, ride weight 225 lbs, I had a set of the Roval CL50 50mm deep wheels that were incredibly stiff, perfect for road riding with my heavy weight. Get them off road and the ride was terrible. I'm currently running the Roval C38 wheels and I can feel the improved ride comfort with the shallower rim.

My next set of gravel wheels will probably be the Reserve 22 with the DT 350 hubs. The 22mm rim depth, and 22mm internal width makes them a nice comfortable gravel wheel. At $1600 msrp they aren't cheap but they do come with a lifetime warranty and have no listed max rider weight. Ymmv.
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Old 01-20-22, 01:16 PM
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I have not looked into this from a gravel riding point of view, but I know with MTB wheels, the weight savings is only part of why people go with CF rims. The other is the difference in ride quality.

Whether the feel of CF rims is a plus or minus is apparently a personal preference thing.

And finally, CF rims can be pretty darn strong for a given weight, and never get bent/warped.
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Old 01-20-22, 01:49 PM
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I have 2 carbon wheelsets: Astral Wanderlust Carbon w/ DT-350 and Farsports 45mm w/ DT-350. I also have a few alloy wheelsets, including a set of rim brake alloy wheels around 1600g for the set.

I ride around the same speed as you. I frankly can't tell a significant difference between carbon & alloy wheels once I'm used to a bike.

A wheelset around 1500g feels nice, but once you get used to them, they're just like any other wheelset imo. As an extreme example of this, my 20inch alloy wheelset on my mini velo probably weighs around 1400g, with 400g tires. With smaller diameter, it should mean that moment of inertia is quite a bit lower. I still struggle at some start and stops on the mini velo. I don't feel like I accelerate faster on the mini velo. Although, I guess I haven't tried carbon on my mini velo...

The part that prevents me from saying that you shouldn't buy another wheelset is that you're signed up for some races. Go for it, if you've got the money and you want to set some personal records and push yourself. Go for deep rims if you're wanting most performance. Aero > Weight in most cases.
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Old 01-20-22, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by dwmckee View Post
I's buy a set of DT Swiss aluminum wheels or Easton EA90s that run $800 - $900 ish (have not checked prices lately) and spend the savings on other things you want. These will weigh in at about 1500 grams give or take a bit and will last as long as that beautiful warbird. Those are pretty heavy stock wheels that came with it however...
I have a set of the Eastons. Broke a spoke off in the n*pple, and no one could get me a replacement nipple. Sucks - but they just were not available anywhere. Don't think anyone is making them.

Realistically, you should be able to get a good set of DT for closer to $500 (well, pre-covid at least). or for $900 have a wheel builder make you a custom carbon rim set.

Between those two options - not sure it makes much difference on gravel tires (which typically are not light). Yeah, a gravel wheel set vs a road wheel set on my bike feels a little different - the lighter faster road tires (and rim) spin up a little faster. But at speed, the Aluminum will be just as fast and more comfortable.

Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
I have not looked into this from a gravel riding point of view, but I know with MTB wheels, the weight savings is only part of why people go with CF rims. The other is the difference in ride quality.

Whether the feel of CF rims is a plus or minus is apparently a personal preference thing...
I gotta say, my carbon wheels feel pretty stiff, and the Aluminum ones are more comfy.

Originally Posted by dwmckee View Post
I's buy a set of DT Swiss aluminum wheels or Easton EA90s that run $800 - $900 ish (have not checked prices lately) and spend the savings on other things you want. These will weigh in at about 1500 grams give or take a bit and will last as long as that beautiful warbird. Those are pretty heavy stock wheels that came with it however...
I have an (older) set of the Eastons. Broke a spoke off in the nipple, and no one could get me a replacement nipple. Sucks - but they just were not available anywhere. Don't think anyone is making them.
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Old 01-21-22, 08:04 PM
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Hookless rims? Pros? Cons? Thoughts?

Gary
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Old 01-21-22, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryan C. View Post
Not much more to add to this thread on the alloy vs carbon debate. But I will add that rim depth will play a role in how compliant and/or comfortable the carbon wheels are. The Zipp 303s is a 45mm deep wheel. All that extra material makes for a stiffer, less compliant, wheel.

I too am a bigger guy, ride weight 225 lbs, I had a set of the Roval CL50 50mm deep wheels that were incredibly stiff, perfect for road riding with my heavy weight. Get them off road and the ride was terrible. I'm currently running the Roval C38 wheels and I can feel the improved ride comfort with the shallower rim.

My next set of gravel wheels will probably be the Reserve 22 with the DT 350 hubs. The 22mm rim depth, and 22mm internal width makes them a nice comfortable gravel wheel. At $1600 msrp they aren't cheap but they do come with a lifetime warranty and have no listed max rider weight. Ymmv.
Well said. If you do go carbon, the Reynolds are ATRs are great, have some give for gravel compliance and unlimited weight rating also.
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