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why can't simple things be simple?

Old 06-26-22, 08:10 PM
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sunburst
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why can't simple things be simple?

I picked up a four bikes recently to flip. One is French, so that one's an outlier. I noticed the axle nuts were rusted on two of the others and wanted to replace. Plus I've got a set of cannibalized fixie wheels I need nuts for. I go to Amazon and see a set of 12 nuts, but three different sizes: M8, M9.5 and M10. WTH! I never ever would have considered there being three axle nut sizes. Although once I read about it, it makes sense there being an English vs Metric size.

Then, I google a few articles and find some bikes have a different axle nut between front and back. Do I really have to drag these *+*&^%! nuts down to the hardware and measure, or can someone set me straight. The three bikes are typical hybrid/city bikes, probably all Chinese: Specialized Globe, Specialized "Roll - Low Entry", and a Public mixte,

Thx in advance for any info.
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Old 06-26-22, 08:18 PM
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let the hoarding begin!
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Old 06-27-22, 06:29 AM
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If there's a bike co-op near you, they're a good source for all the nuts. The hardware store won't stock some of them. Not only are there different sizes, there are different thread pitches too. You may have 24 or 26 tpi on the English sizes.
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Old 06-27-22, 07:09 AM
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Bicycles use a mix of different dimensional standards on the same parts, like axles that are 10x26 (10mm diameter and 26 threads per inch). Most bike parts use fairly fine pitch threads for their axles. If you have access to a LBS I suggest visiting them before the hardware store. And please do bring in as much of the associated hardware when you do go looking for replacements. The gold standard in not what some person says in a forum about what should fit but what actually does fit. Andy
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Old 06-27-22, 12:03 PM
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A lot of axle threads are also the fine series pitches too. If you have a really good hardware store that carries the sizes you need count yourself lucky. Usually it's only the standard pitches for metric around here for me.
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Old 06-27-22, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
I picked up a four bikes recently to flip.
<snip>
WTH! I never ever would have considered there being three axle nut sizes. Although once I read about it, it makes sense there being an English vs Metric size.
<snip>
Do I really have to drag these *+*&^%! nuts down to the hardware and measure, or can someone set me straight.
So you’re trying to make a profit in a field you aren’t knowledgeable in and don’t want to invest in time or proper tools?

There are plenty of ways to measure fasteners. You can use calipers for the diameter and pitch. You can use a thread gauge for the pitch, get close with a ruler, and make some reasonable assumptions to get the rest of the way there. You can compare to known part either from your stock or at a local store, either hardware or bicycle. A local bicycle co-op would likely also have the parts for even less, albeit used. As to if they allow work for profit (even minor) depends on the outfit.

High odds that it’s metric unless British of a certain age. Once you’ve narrowed to that you can probably get close enough on axle diameter with nothing more than a ruler. Easier if the ruler reads in mm, though estimating to the nearest 1/64” and doing some math will get you there too.

I make no claims as to what the old French bike is, even once you have a unit system figured out, though the “see what fits” solution will probably work. I’d try that at a shop though, at least where I am the local hardware store selection of metric fasteners is rather limited to put it politely.

Edit, those are older than I was thinking when I read your country of origin comment. “Test for fit” is probably going to be fastest unless you want to get a thread pitch gauge. The good news is that a cheap one is $10 on Amazon and will last a lifetime of home use.

Last edited by jccaclimber; 06-27-22 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 06-27-22, 07:51 PM
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This is why I rarely visit this site anymore. Eventually you're going to get insulted by somebody if you ask a question. And it hardly matters what you ask. Don't presume to know me. I've restored, from the frame up, many dozens of vintage bikes, none that were cheap enough to have axle nuts. I've flipped more than two dozen in the last two years alone. All of them quality. I was trying to help a woman with a particular price point (which I run into all the time - people thinking a good bike should cost what most of us would pay for a saddle) and got a little carried away and found four for her to choose from. No matter, I will make four women happy with these cleaned and tuned finds. And I've got plenty of bike-specific tools, calipers, etc, blah, blah, blah.

Originally Posted by jccaclimber View Post
So you’re trying to make a profit in a field you aren’t knowledgeable in and don’t want to invest in time or proper tools?
Originally Posted by jccaclimber View Post

There are plenty of ways to measure fasteners. You can use calipers for the diameter and pitch. You can use a thread gauge for the pitch, get close with a ruler, and make some reasonable assumptions to get the rest of the way there. You can compare to known part either from your stock or at a local store, either hardware or bicycle. A local bicycle co-op would likely also have the parts for even less, albeit used. As to if they allow work for profit (even minor) depends on the outfit.

High odds that it’s metric unless British of a certain age. Once you’ve narrowed to that you can probably get close enough on axle diameter with nothing more than a ruler. Easier if the ruler reads in mm, though estimating to the nearest 1/64” and doing some math will get you there too.

I make no claims as to what the old French bike is, even once you have a unit system figured out, though the “see what fits” solution will probably work. I’d try that at a shop though, at least where I am the local hardware store selection of metric fasteners is rather limited to put it politely.

Edit, those are older than I was thinking when I read your country of origin comment. “Test for fit” is probably going to be fastest unless you want to get a thread pitch gauge. The good news is that a cheap one is $10 on Amazon and will last a lifetime of home use.
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Old 06-27-22, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
This is why I rarely visit this site anymore. Eventually you're going to get insulted by somebody if you ask a question. And it hardly matters what you ask. Don't presume to know me. I've restored, from the frame up, many dozens of vintage bikes, none that were cheap enough to have axle nuts. I've flipped more than two dozen in the last two years alone. All of them quality. I was trying to help a woman with a particular price point (which I run into all the time - people thinking a good bike should cost what most of us would pay for a saddle) and got a little carried away and found four for her to choose from. No matter, I will make four women happy with these cleaned and tuned finds. And I've got plenty of bike-specific tools, calipers, etc, blah, blah, blah.

If you have and know how to use a pair of calipers why are you asking us how to determine a thread OD?
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Old 06-28-22, 05:54 AM
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If you claim to flip bikes, while at the same time becoming frustrated by something as elementary as axle treading, you do deserve a bit of mockery. That being said here is a useful site:

https://www.parktool.com/en-us/blog/...hread-concepts
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Old 06-28-22, 06:23 AM
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To answer the original question, the fasteners weren't standardized because bikes evolved independently on a country-to-country basis. That's why there are several different, incompatible 26" x 1 3/8" tire "standards," for just one example. When I was 13, I ruined the rear hub on my first real racing bike by screwing a British-threaded sprocket onto the hub's French threads. How was I supposed to know?
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Old 06-29-22, 02:23 PM
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It was kind of a joke. I was not really all that flummoxed, and I will be careful not to ask such elementary questions in the future. Nevertheless, was hoping for a quick/easy answer, like "buy a bag of 10mm nuts and that covers 90% of cases". At any rate, an overnight soak in Barkeepers and most of the rust came off.

Originally Posted by ign1te View Post
If you claim to flip bikes, while at the same time becoming frustrated by something as elementary as axle treading, you do deserve a bit of mockery. That being said here is a useful site:

https://www.parktool.com/en-us/blog/...hread-concepts

Last edited by sunburst; 06-29-22 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 06-29-22, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
It was kind of a joke. I was not really all that flummoxed, and I will be careful not to ask such elementary questions in the future. Nevertheless, was hoping for a quick/easy answer, like "buy a bag of 10mm nuts and that covers 90% of cases". At any rate, an overnight soak in Barkeepers and most of the rust came off.
Serious question, do you know how to size a thread with a pair of calipers?
If so, what are the measurements? If not, we can guide through that if it’s the sticking point. Once you know how to do it, it’s faster than writing a post here.
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Old 07-01-22, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
It was kind of a joke. I was not really all that flummoxed, and I will be careful not to ask such elementary questions in the future. Nevertheless, was hoping for a quick/easy answer, like "buy a bag of 10mm nuts and that covers 90% of cases". At any rate, an overnight soak in Barkeepers and most of the rust came off.

I understood what you were getting at in your post. I should be obvious to the most casual reader. Unfortunately it is common on BF to mock even a simple question. Then there is blood in the water and the feeding frenzy begins.

Sounds good on the Barkeeper soak. I will try that myself on my old bike hardware.
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Old 07-05-22, 08:39 AM
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Why can't things be simple? It's a rant I can relate to.

Answer: it's god's will, or the perversity of the folks programming the simulation we live in, or as I sometimes rant, "the gods in their wisdom have decreed it so...
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