Reverse Nicehole FAIL
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 895
Bikes: 2017 Co-op ADV 1.1; ~1991 Novara Arriba; 1990 Fuji Palisade; mid-90's Moots Tandem; 1985 Performance Superbe
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 390 Post(s)
Liked 572 Times
in
332 Posts
Reverse Nicehole FAIL
When I make mistakes I let you know so YOU DON"T HAVE TO.
After a two week detour around my normal commute route due to construction, I returned to my normal route today and promptly did a bad move which I regretted.
Setup is a) when riding, I do try to move left in the lane at a red light if a motorist is signaling for a right turn (on red) and I can safely accommodate them, b) I have to go straight under a freeway and most of the traffic is peeling off to the right or left; straight traffic is a small percentage; I take the right-most lane consistent with my destination. and c) the intersection looks like this:
Cross-traffic is Interstate access road with a major on-ramp about 1/2 mile to the east.
So today the traffic light is red and there are maybe 3, 4 cars in front of me (position A) and I've got a car with their right-hand flasher going behind me (I know it is hard to believe...). The cycle on this light is that a green arrow comes on for right-turning traffic about 30 seconds before the through-traffic light turns green. As it happens, the cars in front of me turn right and I'm suddenly at the red light. At this point my nicehole reptilian brain moved me to position B to let the signalling driver make a right. But then the green light comes on and I have other cars behind it gunning their way to the intersection and now I'm stuck in position B.
Ugly, ugly, ugly.
I won't ever do that again. My nicehole hippocampus tried to kill me and I've got to control the little @%^%.
Don't do it.
After a two week detour around my normal commute route due to construction, I returned to my normal route today and promptly did a bad move which I regretted.
Setup is a) when riding, I do try to move left in the lane at a red light if a motorist is signaling for a right turn (on red) and I can safely accommodate them, b) I have to go straight under a freeway and most of the traffic is peeling off to the right or left; straight traffic is a small percentage; I take the right-most lane consistent with my destination. and c) the intersection looks like this:
Cross-traffic is Interstate access road with a major on-ramp about 1/2 mile to the east.
So today the traffic light is red and there are maybe 3, 4 cars in front of me (position A) and I've got a car with their right-hand flasher going behind me (I know it is hard to believe...). The cycle on this light is that a green arrow comes on for right-turning traffic about 30 seconds before the through-traffic light turns green. As it happens, the cars in front of me turn right and I'm suddenly at the red light. At this point my nicehole reptilian brain moved me to position B to let the signalling driver make a right. But then the green light comes on and I have other cars behind it gunning their way to the intersection and now I'm stuck in position B.
Ugly, ugly, ugly.
I won't ever do that again. My nicehole hippocampus tried to kill me and I've got to control the little @%^%.
Don't do it.
#2
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,985
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6193 Post(s)
Liked 4,808 Times
in
3,316 Posts
I never understand why any would have a lane be both straight or turn and then not have both the green and turn arrows come on at the same time. Makes sense for intersections that only one side can go at a time. Perhaps this intersection once was that.
Perhaps a question that you should take up with the people that do traffic signals there. We had that once here and might still have, but I can't think of where it is.
What does a car do if it's in that lane wanting to go straight and everyone behind is honking their horn because it's lunch hour and they want to turn right?
Perhaps a question that you should take up with the people that do traffic signals there. We had that once here and might still have, but I can't think of where it is.
What does a car do if it's in that lane wanting to go straight and everyone behind is honking their horn because it's lunch hour and they want to turn right?
#4
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times
in
3,158 Posts
I never understand why any would have a lane be both straight or turn and then not have both the green and turn arrows come on at the same time. Makes sense for intersections that only one side can go at a time. Perhaps this intersection once was that.
Perhaps a question that you should take up with the people that do traffic signals there. We had that once here and might still have, but I can't think of where it is.
What does a car do if it's in that lane wanting to go straight and everyone behind is honking their horn because it's lunch hour and they want to turn right?
Perhaps a question that you should take up with the people that do traffic signals there. We had that once here and might still have, but I can't think of where it is.
What does a car do if it's in that lane wanting to go straight and everyone behind is honking their horn because it's lunch hour and they want to turn right?
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,945
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3773 Post(s)
Liked 1,043 Times
in
789 Posts
I always let the car behind me make the right turn at a red light, if I'm at the front of the line, i.e. if I arrive at the red light first. (Just out of courtesy -- trying to make up for the bad cyclists out there )
If I don't arrive at the red light first, I just take a position behind the car(s) ahead of me and I'm in the center of the lane (I take the lane behind the car directly ahead of me). I stay in the center of the lane and when the light changes green, I ride directly behind the car in front of me, until I can't maintain the speed of the cars, which would be at least past the intersection -- so in that scenario, the car (directly behind me) can make the right turn exactly the same way as if I were a motorist.
If I'm the first in line and I want to let the car turn, I go to position B on the illustration above, but I move forward as much as possible, even beyond the crosswalk, as long as I'm not impeding any traffic. I may be in front of the cars (to the left) going straight (depends a little on the road construction), but I'm always looking out for the green, especially if I'm first in line, so I can take off right away -- on a bike it's so easy to out-accelerate a car.
I don't understand why the OP says he was "stuck in position B". Please explain.
If I don't arrive at the red light first, I just take a position behind the car(s) ahead of me and I'm in the center of the lane (I take the lane behind the car directly ahead of me). I stay in the center of the lane and when the light changes green, I ride directly behind the car in front of me, until I can't maintain the speed of the cars, which would be at least past the intersection -- so in that scenario, the car (directly behind me) can make the right turn exactly the same way as if I were a motorist.
If I'm the first in line and I want to let the car turn, I go to position B on the illustration above, but I move forward as much as possible, even beyond the crosswalk, as long as I'm not impeding any traffic. I may be in front of the cars (to the left) going straight (depends a little on the road construction), but I'm always looking out for the green, especially if I'm first in line, so I can take off right away -- on a bike it's so easy to out-accelerate a car.
I don't understand why the OP says he was "stuck in position B". Please explain.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,948
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3949 Post(s)
Liked 7,295 Times
in
2,946 Posts
What does a car do if it's in that lane wanting to go straight and everyone behind is honking their horn because it's lunch hour and they want to turn right?
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 895
Bikes: 2017 Co-op ADV 1.1; ~1991 Novara Arriba; 1990 Fuji Palisade; mid-90's Moots Tandem; 1985 Performance Superbe
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 390 Post(s)
Liked 572 Times
in
332 Posts
If I don't arrive at the red light first, I just take a position behind the car(s) ahead of me and I'm in the center of the lane (I take the lane behind the car directly ahead of me). I stay in the center of the lane and when the light changes green, I ride directly behind the car in front of me, until I can't maintain the speed of the cars, which would be at least past the intersection -- so in that scenario, the car (directly behind me) can make the right turn exactly the same way as if I were a motorist.
If I'm the first in line and I want to let the car turn, I go to position B on the illustration above, but I move forward as much as possible, even beyond the crosswalk, as long as I'm not impeding any traffic. I may be in front of the cars (to the left) going straight (depends a little on the road construction), but I'm always looking out for the green, especially if I'm first in line, so I can take off right away -- on a bike it's so easy to out-accelerate a car.
If I'm the first in line and I want to let the car turn, I go to position B on the illustration above, but I move forward as much as possible, even beyond the crosswalk, as long as I'm not impeding any traffic. I may be in front of the cars (to the left) going straight (depends a little on the road construction), but I'm always looking out for the green, especially if I'm first in line, so I can take off right away -- on a bike it's so easy to out-accelerate a car.
Once in position B, motorists in my lane built up speed and momentum making the right turn. I remember when the light turned full green (from green right arrow) and I looked back and the vehicle approaching was not signaling for a right turn. So my instinct was to not pull in front a speeding vehicle. I was only able to move when a vehicle signaling a right turn at a reasonable speed arrived. It all happened very fast but I think they slowed to allow me to move in.
If I don't arrive at the red light first, I just take a position behind the car(s) ahead of me and I'm in the center of the lane (I take the lane behind the car directly ahead of me). I stay in the center of the lane and when the light changes green, I ride directly behind the car in front of me, until I can't maintain the speed of the cars, which would be at least past the intersection -- so in that scenario, the car (directly behind me) can make the right turn exactly the same way as if I were a motorist.
I think I can formulate this as "whenever there is an arrow-style traffic light, maintain primary lane position" as a general rule.
I think that is true for the motorists, but not for pedestrians. In my opinion, right turn on red, a long established practice, has not been friendly to pedestrians. In my area, you put yourself at risk crossing with a "walk" signal because many motorists are concentrating on other vehicles and pedestrians are both relatively rare and not an immediate physical threat. In practice, pedestrians yield to motorists and all the crosswalk paint, beg buttons and signals are just safety theater.
In the particular case of this green arrow, I agree. Pedestrians are "no walk" during the arrow, as you would expect.
I value "no one gets hurt on my trip" over "get there as fast as I can", so I can't agree with the general statement.
Last edited by flangehead; 06-27-21 at 06:29 AM. Reason: Effect of right turn on red on pedestrians.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,945
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3773 Post(s)
Liked 1,043 Times
in
789 Posts
Ok thanks, I now have more of an understanding. I'm not sure what I'd do at that intersection, it's easy to say by just looking at a picture, but that doesn't give one the whole picture...pardon the pun
I understand there are some areas that can present unique challenges to cyclists, that's why I'd have to experience it; I do have lanes like that here, but I don't really get major rush hour traffic here, and I know that, because I have experienced major rush hour traffic in other areas I've lived/rode, such as Virginia Beach, Va and Washington DC...so I do know the challenges. All I can say is that I'm lucky that my riding style favors that of a sprinter and I can go from zero to near-Cavendish speeds pretty quickly
It's always good to evaluate your riding and not just the accidents/near-accidents, but the much more frequent glitches we cyclists experience all the time.
We cyclists are like 90-lb weaklings getting in the ring with Andre the Giant
I understand there are some areas that can present unique challenges to cyclists, that's why I'd have to experience it; I do have lanes like that here, but I don't really get major rush hour traffic here, and I know that, because I have experienced major rush hour traffic in other areas I've lived/rode, such as Virginia Beach, Va and Washington DC...so I do know the challenges. All I can say is that I'm lucky that my riding style favors that of a sprinter and I can go from zero to near-Cavendish speeds pretty quickly
It's always good to evaluate your riding and not just the accidents/near-accidents, but the much more frequent glitches we cyclists experience all the time.
We cyclists are like 90-lb weaklings getting in the ring with Andre the Giant
Last edited by work4bike; 06-27-21 at 07:12 AM.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,972
Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 2007 Dahon Boardwalk, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International, 2006 Felt F65, 1989 Dahon Getaway V
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Liked 1,677 Times
in
827 Posts
At some intersections, if cars begin to collect behind me I move over to the crosswalk to let them go ahead of me. Crosswalks can have their own safety issues for pedestrians and cyclists.
I like posts like this one because they allow others to analyse different situations and relate them to their own cycling situations, and that makes everyone safer.
I like posts like this one because they allow others to analyse different situations and relate them to their own cycling situations, and that makes everyone safer.
#10
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,985
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6193 Post(s)
Liked 4,808 Times
in
3,316 Posts
So what does a vehicle do that took that lane wanting to go straight as the lane markings indicate is allowed?
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,948
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3949 Post(s)
Liked 7,295 Times
in
2,946 Posts
I'm not going to swear that this is the case in the OP's instance, but in the similar instance that I experienced somewhere near me, there were two turn arrows, one for each right turn lane that were green. However the marking on the pavement showed the lane as being for both straight and turning traffic.
So what does a vehicle do that took that lane wanting to go straight as the lane markings indicate is allowed?
So what does a vehicle do that took that lane wanting to go straight as the lane markings indicate is allowed?
Likes For tomato coupe:
#12
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,985
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6193 Post(s)
Liked 4,808 Times
in
3,316 Posts
Tell that to the people behind honking wanting to turn right on the green arrow. They couldn't see the markings on the ground since the car in front of them was covering them up.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,948
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3949 Post(s)
Liked 7,295 Times
in
2,946 Posts
You ignore the people honking -- they will see the lane markings soon enough. And, the next time they drive through the intersection, they will already know about the markings.