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Campagnolo victory change chainring ratio?

Old 05-16-22, 09:04 AM
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curiousabe
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Campagnolo victory change chainring ratio?

So i recently got my first road bike, a beautiful vintage steel de visini in red chromovelato. Took it for a 2 hour ride yesterday and concluded that the 52/42 chainrings with 5 speed 12/23 (or maybe it was 13/22) gearing is way too high for me, climbing hills was simply killing me.

Did some research yesterday and the chainrings for the campagnolo victory/triomphe seem to be 116mm BCD. Also managed to find some chainrings in various sizes.

What would be the best size inner ring to change to in order to make it both (a lot ) easier to climb hills but still make it work smoothly with the derailleurs and such?
  • Would 52/36 be too much of a jump?
  • What can the Max difference of the cigs be for the two chainrings?
  • Do you suggest any other ratio? On my commute there are quite a few nasty hills
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Old 05-16-22, 10:46 AM
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With my Victory/Triomphe setup, I use 52/42t chainrings and a 13-28t 7 speed cogset, which gets me below 40 gear inches. Personally, I would change out the rear cluster first before replacing the ring. You might be able to go as big as 30t in the rear, I'm not sure. My Victory rear mech works great with my freewheel.

https://www.bikecalc.com/gear_inches
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Old 05-16-22, 11:50 AM
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How do you like the ride? I was totally tempted by one selling her locally in northern UT but it appears to have sold. Curious how they ride.
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Old 05-16-22, 12:00 PM
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You can get more clearance between the rear derailleur pulley and the largest cog by using a Road Link (or a less expensive copy from Ebay). You might be able to get a few extra teeth on the largest cog, but be aware of the max wrap of the rear derailleur. I have copies on 2 bikes and they work great.

https://www.amazon.com/Wolf-Tooth-Co...=AMY4I718ZUBOU
copy in silver - https://www.ebay.com/itm/17498508198...UAAOSwVjRhH3bu

max cog = 30T but max wrap not listed here https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...108&AbsPos=108
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Old 05-16-22, 12:02 PM
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I've modified a 36t, 110mm MTB chainring to fit on one of these cranksets.
It worked well and I retained the strong steel chainring bolt hardware (because of the low level of precision that I applied while hogging away at the chainring holes and spider-shoulder seatings with my files).
I used a simpler bevel in lieu of a counterbore, so there was a bit of break-in time during which the bolts got a couple of re-torquings.

Yeah, it was a bit of work!

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Old 05-16-22, 12:27 PM
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Victory, was available in two versions, corsa and liesure. The latter had front and rear derailleurs with longer cages to accommodate wider range gearing. I've never seen gearing specs for Victory but I image the 42T chainring is close to the small ring limit for the corsa version of the front derailler, while the leisure version is probably designed for the 36T. Of course, to wrap the extra cahin, you'd likely also need the leisure version of the rear derailleur.
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Old 05-16-22, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by curiousabe
...
  • Would 52/36 be too much of a jump?
  • What can the Max difference of the cigs be for the two chainrings?
  • Do you suggest any other ratio? On my commute there are quite a few nasty hills
Do you really need the 52? On the 1959 Capo I run 46-38 / 13-15-17-19-22-25 with a short-cage Campag. 980 rear derailleur and a racing front derailleur -- works well. I have found over the years that a 96 gear-inch top end (50/14 or 46/13) is all I really need. I do run 100 gear-inches (46/12 on 26" wheels) on my mountain bike, but it came with a perfectly adequate 96 gear-inch top of 48/13.
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Old 05-16-22, 05:18 PM
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Campy Victory Cranks & Derailleurs

Campy Victory "Corsa" RDs had the same pulley cage geometry as the 2nd generation 4001 Super Record RDs introduced in 1977. The "published" maximum rear sprocket capacity was 28T. The 1987 Campy catalog lists a 30T rear sprocket capacity for the Triomphe RD which is almost the same as the Victory Corsa RD. There was also a less common "Leisure" model with a longer pulley cage that had a 32T published capacity.


Manufacturer's published rear derailleur capacities were conservative CYA numbers that were intended to provide out of the box, Plug and Play performance on most bike setups. They didn't want to have to deal with unhappy customers complaining that such and such derailleur didn't work on their bike... One exception, Suntour competition model RDs from the 1970's "V" through the late 80's RDs maxed out at 24T or 26T PERIOD!

With a little trial and error - changing chain length, wheel position in the dropout and in some cases the "B" adjustment screw on the RD allows at least one if not two FW sizes larger than the published maximum rear sprocket size.

There is an adjustable derailleur travel stop on the back side of the Victory, Triomphe and early C-Record RDs. DON'T loose it and be careful installing it because they are a little fragile. The chart shows the positions for various size large sprockets.





Depending on chain stay length and chainring tooth difference, a Victory Corsa RD should be able to handle a 30T FW without any problem and 32T if you don't try to hit all of the gear combinations.

I'm running 50T-36T chainrings with a 13-28T Shimano Uniglide twist tooth 6 speed FW without any problems. That gives me ~35" low gear.



curiousabe rather than spending a lot of time and money to get lower gears, the easiest thing would be to find a 13-28T 6 speed freewheel and replace the old 13-23T racing one. I'd avoid going to a 7 speed FW because there is no STANDARD width and many times they require playing with the rear axle width and so on to get enough clearance between the smallest sprocket and the seat & chain stays.

I'd also recommend getting one of the newer 6-7-8 speed chains like those from SRAM or KMC. Don't waste money on expensive chains as they are consumable wear parts with a 3000-5000 mile life expectancy. Shimano chains are crazy expensive for something they don't make themselves!!!

T-Mar As far as the Victory Corsa front derailleur capacity, as you can see on my bike pictured above, it's handling a 36T chainring fine and can probably go down to a 30T without a problem.

Campy 116mm BCD chainrings were produced in 35T, 36T, 37T, 38T, 39T, 40T, 41T, 42T, 50T, 51T, 52T & 53T. They fit Victory, Triomphe and Gran Sport cranks. 53T, 52T and 42T were the most common sizes and occasionally 40T. I have some 35T. 36T and 38T chainrings that I paid a king's ransom for.

Gebhardt in Germany makes 35T, 36T and 38T rings for reasonable prices. A seller in the UK handles them but he's in France until mid June, 2022.

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Old 05-16-22, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by verktyg
There is an adjustable derailleur travel stop on the back side of the Victory... They are a little fragile.

They're very fragile. I place a ball bearing in the empty space to keep it in place a little better than what the worn teeth can accomplish on my two Victory rear mechs.
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Old 05-17-22, 10:20 AM
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I found a rare (common in the early 1970s) SunTour 27T cog, so I am going to try the Bianchi with 50-42 / 14-16-18-20-23-27 for 1.5-step normal use and 50-38 crossover with the same freewheel for hillier rides. I'll let you know if I can make the 1980 NR work w/ 27T ... .

(Swapping the inner chainring is a variation on an old theme for me. In the 1970s I used to run 50-47 / 14-16-18-20-23 half-step for flat rides and 50-42 / 14-16-18-20-23 for hills. I need some lower ratios today ... .)
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Old 05-17-22, 05:08 PM
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Thanks all, this is super helpful for a bike noob, will try to answer everyone!

SurferRosa : Why do you recommend replacing rear cluster instead of chainring?

jamesdak : Love it so far (tbh though only have beater commuters with intern gear hubs to compare with)

Originally Posted by John E
Do you really need the 52? On the 1959 Capo I run 46-38 / 13-15-17-19-22-25 with a short-cage Campag. 980 rear derailleur and a racing front derailleur -- works well. I have found over the years that a 96 gear-inch top end (50/14 or 46/13) is all I really need. I do run 100 gear-inches (46/12 on 26" wheels) on my mountain bike, but it came with a perfectly adequate 96 gear-inch top of 48/13.
Honestly I doubt it, I really need to be able to climb hills easier since I will do that loads more that racing at peak speeds.

Originally Posted by verktyg
Campy Victory "Corsa" RDs had the same pulley cage geometry as the 2nd generation 4001 Super Record RDs introduced in 1977. The "published" maximum rear sprocket capacity was 28T. The 1987 Campy catalog lists a 30T rear sprocket capacity for the Triomphe RD which is almost the same as the Victory Corsa RD. There was also a less common "Leisure" model with a longer pulley cage that had a 32T published capacity.


Manufacturer's published rear derailleur capacities were conservative CYA numbers that were intended to provide out of the box, Plug and Play performance on most bike setups. They didn't want to have to deal with unhappy customers complaining that such and such derailleur didn't work on their bike... One exception, Suntour competition model RDs from the 1970's "V" through the late 80's RDs maxed out at 24T or 26T PERIOD!

With a little trial and error - changing chain length, wheel position in the dropout and in some cases the "B" adjustment screw on the RD allows at least one if not two FW sizes larger than the published maximum rear sprocket size.

There is an adjustable derailleur travel stop on the back side of the Victory, Triomphe and early C-Record RDs. DON'T loose it and be careful installing it because they are a little fragile. The chart shows the positions for various size large sprockets.

Depending on chain stay length and chainring tooth difference, a Victory Corsa RD should be able to handle a 30T FW without any problem and 32T if you don't try to hit all of the gear combinations.

I'm running 50T-36T chainrings with a 13-28T Shimano Uniglide twist tooth 6 speed FW without any problems. That gives me ~35" low gear.

curiousabe rather than spending a lot of time and money to get lower gears, the easiest thing would be to find a 13-28T 6 speed freewheel and replace the old 13-23T racing one. I'd avoid going to a 7 speed FW because there is no STANDARD width and many times they require playing with the rear axle width and so on to get enough clearance between the smallest sprocket and the seat & chain stays.

I'd also recommend getting one of the newer 6-7-8 speed chains like those from SRAM or KMC. Don't waste money on expensive chains as they are consumable wear parts with a 3000-5000 mile life expectancy. Shimano chains are crazy expensive for something they don't make themselves!!!

T-Mar As far as the Victory Corsa front derailleur capacity, as you can see on my bike pictured above, it's handling a 36T chainring fine and can probably go down to a 30T without a problem.

Campy 116mm BCD chainrings were produced in 35T, 36T, 37T, 38T, 39T, 40T, 41T, 42T, 50T, 51T, 52T & 53T. They fit Victory, Triomphe and Gran Sport cranks. 53T, 52T and 42T were the most common sizes and occasionally 40T. I have some 35T. 36T and 38T chainrings that I paid a king's ransom for.

Gebhardt in Germany makes 35T, 36T and 38T rings for reasonable prices. A seller in the UK handles them but he's in France until mid June, 2022.

verktyg
Thanks, it also turns out I have a Triomphe groupset and not a Victory like the seller told me... If I were to look for a 13-28T 6 speed freewheel, what exactly am I looking for and how do I know the thing will actually fit? Do people usually sell just the hub and freewheel or do I need to replace the whole tire? How do I know that the hub will fit the frame? The current hub is labled "GIPIEMME"

Originally Posted by John E
I found a rare (common in the early 1970s) SunTour 27T cog, so I am going to try the Bianchi with 50-42 / 14-16-18-20-23-27 for 1.5-step normal use and 50-38 crossover with the same freewheel for hillier rides. I'll let you know if I can make the 1980 NR work w/ 27T ... .

(Swapping the inner chainring is a variation on an old theme for me. In the 1970s I used to run 50-47 / 14-16-18-20-23 half-step for flat rides and 50-42 / 14-16-18-20-23 for hills. I need some lower ratios today ... .)

Awesome, keep me posted!
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Old 05-17-22, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by curiousabe
SurferRosa : Why do you recommend replacing rear cluster instead of chainring?
First, when you mention someone, if you actually want them to get a notification, you need to write out their entire name. Don't pick it from the pop-up list. It doesn't work due to a bug.

Now, to answer your question, if you play around with the gear table I linked, you'll notice that small changes in the rear cluster make a much greater gearing difference than small changes in the chainrings. Not only is it usually much easier to change your rear cluster, but those changes make a greater impact in the gearing. It's simply the way a bicycle works.
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Old 05-18-22, 03:09 AM
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Campy Nuovo Record RD Capacity

Originally Posted by John E
I found a rare (common in the early 1970s) SunTour 27T cog, so I am going to try the Bianchi with 50-42 / 14-16-18-20-23-27 for 1.5-step normal use and 50-38 crossover with the same freewheel for hillier rides. I'll let you know if I can make the 1980 NR work w/ 27T ... .
John E...

I've posted this info many times before.... This is wandering off topic from Campy Victory gears but here goes... Short Response from the message I posted above with some embroidery:

"Manufacturer's published rear derailleur capacities were conservative CYA numbers that were intended to provide out of the box, Plug and Play performance on most bike setups. They didn't want to have to deal with unhappy customers complaining that such and such derailleur didn't work on their bike... One exception, Suntour competition model RDs from the 1970's "V" through the late 80's RDs maxed out at 24T or 26T PERIOD!

With a little trial and error - changing chain length, wheel position in the dropout and in some cases the "B" adjustment screw on the RD allows at least one if not two FW sizes larger than the published maximum rear sprocket size."


During the 70's we sold more high performance bikes plus high end components than all of the other shops in our region combined ($300 and up during the bike boom - $400-$500 and up later on). Everything from Teledyne, Graftek and early Klein frames to Italian, British and French full Campagnolo factory assembled bikes. The reason I mention this is because most of the better quality bikes and components were sold to commuters, tourists and casual riders who wanted a nice bike rather than to racers (who never had any money).

Before 1975-76 full factory equipped Campagnolo models were set up for racing out of the box with 13 or 14-23T freewheels and 52 or 53-42T chainrings. Most of those models went out of our shop with 14-28T 5 speed "alpine" gearing. Rarely did we ever have a problem setting them up for our customer's needs. 6 speed FWs and 13-28T FWs weren't readily available plus the narrow Suntour Ultra FWs hadn't come out yet.

As far as Campagnolo NR RD capacity, about 10 years ago I was on a Classic Rendezvous ride where there were 2 bikes running 34T FWs and one with a 32T FW using standard Campy NR RDs!




I have 28T FWs on most of my Campy NR equipped bikes plus ran a 13-31T FW on another one
,


The urban myths about the Campy Nuovo Record RD capacity have been circulating for over 50 years!!!

Here's a BF thread from 2 years ago with a copy of Frank Berto's 1984 Bicycling Magazine article listing the results of his RD comparison tests. He also lists advertised sprocket sizes plus real life capacities without making any changes out of the box.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ing-berto.html

Check out the comments @T-Mar added.

Originally Posted by John E
(Swapping the inner chainring is a variation on an old theme for me. In the 1970s I used to run 50-47 / 14-16-18-20-23 half-step for flat rides and 50-42 / 14-16-18-20-23 for hills. I need some lower ratios today ... .)
Back in 1975 before the days of PCs I spent some time with a Texas Instruments desktop calculator and a pad of graph paper "gear freaking" as Frank Berto called it. What I came up with was a 13-26T 5 speed freewheel and 49-45T chainrings. I had access to just about every Atom/Regina sprocket so I custom built my freewheel. Tke result was true 1/2 step gearing of 5% or 10% increases or decreases between shifts.

I found that a 4 tooth difference between chainring tooth counts worked out the best for all of the 1/2 step combinations that I tried: 52-48T, 51-47T, 50-46T, 49-45T and so on. It gave me ~40" to 101" gearing. I used my 49-45T / 13-26T combo until about 2007 when I discovered that all of the other old guys were running 28T rear sprockets with smaller chainrings.

These days I run 50T, 49T or 48T large chainrings with 38T or 39T small rings with 28T large sprockets. I don't worry about what gear i'm in I just use what feels good.

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Old 05-18-22, 04:49 AM
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Campagnolo Victory vs. Triomphe Cranks

The biggest visual difference between the Triomphe and Victory cranks is in spiders on the crank arms:




Both models take the same 116mm BCD chainrings. The short lived Gran Sport Touring double and triple cranks used those chainrings too.



Triomphe cranks used the same BBs as the older Gran Sport cranks,114.5mm asymmetrical spindles - the drive side is longer. Other Campy BBs will work if the dimensions are the same.

Victory cranks used 109mm symmetrical spindles same length on both ends.

As with all things related to Campy BBs: YMWV!

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Old 05-30-22, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by verktyg
The biggest visual difference between the Triomphe and Victory cranks is in spiders on the crank arms:

Both models take the same 116mm BCD chainrings. The short lived Gran Sport Touring double and triple cranks used those chainrings too.

Triomphe cranks used the same BBs as the older Gran Sport cranks,114.5mm asymmetrical spindles - the drive side is longer. Other Campy BBs will work if the dimensions are the same.

Victory cranks used 109mm symmetrical spindles same length on both ends.

As with all things related to Campy BBs: YMWV!

verktyg
Thanks, you have been so helpful! Deferentially group set on the bike as confirmed by crank, brake levers and derailleur!

Anyhow, I dropped the bike of at the LBS to exchange the old Regina freewheel to a new Sunrace 14-28 6speed and a new shiny Izumi 410C. The new Sunrace was a bit wider in total than the old freewheel but it did fit. However, after picking up the bike and trying to ride it home I noticed the bike did a quite loud almost KLONK like sound, almost once every revelation of the crank. Took it back to the lbs and they confirmed the noise, strangely it was only making this noise when the crank was at approx 2 o clock. They couldn't figure out what the issue was other than possible a manufacturing defect of the freewheel so they will replace it with another one of those Sunrace freewheels. Hopefully that solves the issue.
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