Campagnolo Nuovo Record Triple Crankset Help
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Campagnolo Nuovo Record Triple Crankset Help
I recently acquired a Campagnolo 1049, (Nuovo) Record Strada v4 crankset that was one of the original factory-drilled triples. It's identical to the one pictured here: https://www.velobase.com/ViewCompone...=115&AbsPos=28. It didn't come with the ultra-rare 100 BCD inner-most granny ring, or the bolts to attach it. I'd like to use it as a triple.
My questions:
My questions:
- What kind of bolts do I need to attach the granny ring?
- Are the bolts as rare as the ring?
- Can I modify an Avocet 102 BCD granny ring to fit on these cranks?
__________________
Check out www.djcatnap.com for articles on vintage Japanese & French bicycle restorations, components and history.
Check out www.djcatnap.com for articles on vintage Japanese & French bicycle restorations, components and history.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,038
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4511 Post(s)
Liked 6,378 Times
in
3,667 Posts
I recently acquired a Campagnolo 1049, (Nuovo) Record Strada v4 crankset that was one of the original factory-drilled triples. It's identical to the one pictured here: https://www.velobase.com/ViewCompone...=115&AbsPos=28. It didn't come with the ultra-rare 100 BCD inner-most granny ring, or the bolts to attach it. I'd like to use it as a triple.
My questions:
My questions:
- What kind of bolts do I need to attach the granny ring?
- Are the bolts as rare as the ring?
- Can I modify an Avocet 102 BCD granny ring to fit on these cranks?
Did you get the spindle?
You supposedly can modify the Avocet but seems a kludge too far to me.
#3
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,796
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1392 Post(s)
Liked 1,324 Times
in
836 Posts
2) It is trivial to adjust BCD by 2mm -- been there ... done that converting a 130mm 44T ring to 128mm for a Nervar Star spider. Easy peasy, far less "kludgey" than suggested, particularly when used as an inner ring, as in the proposed application.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,265
Bikes: '82 Univega Competizione, '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '83 Mercian KOM Touring, '85 Univega Alpina Uno, '76 Eisentraut Limited
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked 1,205 Times
in
701 Posts
This post has the diagram showing what you’d need, and my guess is that it’s rare. Looks like parts number 761 and 818?
https://www.bikeforums.net/15623104-post60.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/15623104-post60.html
#5
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Falmouth, ME
Posts: 143
Bikes: 2010 Cannondale CAAD 5 Potenza 66cm, 1984 Basso Gap Nuovo Record 65cm, 1989 Cannondale ST Racing Triple 27", 1974 Schwinn Paramount Nuovo Record 26", 198? Scapin MKII 66cm Victory, 1994 Havnoonian Chorus 8sp 27"
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked 101 Times
in
44 Posts
I think the bolts are rarer than the small rings. Luckily, the 1049 I put on my '74 Paramount came with everything, despite costing a small fortune. Also hard to find is the appropriate bottom bracket for this crank, but I'd say the bolts are the toughest.
Likes For jrg1244:
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,038
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4511 Post(s)
Liked 6,378 Times
in
3,667 Posts
This post has the diagram showing what you’d need, and my guess is that it’s rare. Looks like parts number 761 and 818?
https://www.bikeforums.net/15623104-post60.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/15623104-post60.html
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,829 Times
in
1,995 Posts
Galli and others made spacer fasteners that appear to work - they are getting more difficult to source.
#9
blahblahblah chrome moly
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,987
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 2,569 Times
in
1,073 Posts
- The original parts are Campy #818 for the studs, and #761 to attach the ring to the studs. #761 is just the male half of a pista chainring bolt, so you can also use most any single-ring chainging bolt such as BMX or even grind down some road double bolts (too much work, not recommended, use in emergency!) Real 818 bolts are rare but I have grabbed some off ebay a time or two.
- Avocet triple inner bolts are a good fit, no mods needed.
- Stronglight Mygal bolts work, sort of, but they have a smaller 10mm head, so they can't be used with Campy rings which have a 10mm hole, the bolt head falls right through, you need a ring with 8mm holes (more on that later)
- You can modify a standard "stripper bolt" aka shoulder bolt from an industrial fastener supplier such as Mcmaster-Carr. This requires access to a metal lathe.
- Buy some 818 bolts from me if you're desperate enough, but my price is $150/set. Sorry but that reflects all the time I spent searching for them, and it's about what good ones go for on ebay
- Original rings (#804) only came in 36t, no other choices. Rare now, but unless you really want 36t and original, there are other choices. You can buy my Campy 808 for $50 (used) if you're desperate, or read on
- Jim Merz used to sell rings he had made in 32t and 31t. I think he stopped selling them in maybe the early '80s, so they're rare now too.
- Gebhart in the UK has made some, I forget how many teeth. Contact Hilary Stone who sold them to see if he still has any
- A couple other small makers have made them as small as 30t. Most recently Bob Freeman near Seattle made a stack of them, probably sold them all. His were CNC engraved "Crampandgoslow"
- If you're going to modify a ring, don't start with an Avocet, reults will be sub-par and they're rare too. The rings to modify are most any* 74mm BCD ring at 30t or bigger. The basic plan is drill 5 new holes at 100mm BCD, then cut the old holes off. (Or leave them on, they don't hurt anything, just look funny) (Or make your 100mm ring out of someone's 34t ring, then bolt a 24t ring to the old 74mm holes to make yourself a rad Quad-ring crank!)
- I have done this, making rings as small as 29t, but that's not practical (and 39t rings are rare) so plan on 30t or larger.
- I made a Flickr album here showing how I did it. Note my method of marking out the hole locations requires having a Campy 804 ring to use as a template, oops, sorry! There are other ways of marking out 5 holes on a 100 mm BCD, but this answer is getting too long already...
- I can make you one but I am slow. I charge $100. Results not guaranteed to be perfect, I do this by hand, but guaranteed to bolt onto the crank and run straight, at least to eyeball accuracy (good enough for bike parts).
Oh here's my Flickr showing the 29t ring and the hoops I had to jump through to get that to work. Not recommended!
Hope this helps, good luck and let us know which way you end up going
Mark B
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I think I have the spindle... I have to measure the one that was on the bike with the crank. That said, I know I have a 116mm Shimano on hand, that should work with the addition of a 1mm spacer.
There's one set of bolts on eBay for about $100, which is motivation enough to try to figure out something with McMaster-Carr. I'm thinking the approach would be a normal metric-threaded bolt with spacers on it, as opposed to the much more complex design of the Campagnolo originals. Something similar to how Specialites TA triple bolts are made.
Or, perhaps set screws (like this: https://www.mcmaster.com/bolts/set-s...ip-set-screws/) with spacers around it, with a thin nut (https://www.mcmaster.com/browse-fast...in-hex-nuts-8/) to hold inner chainring on without striking the chain stay.
What I'd need to know are two things:
There's one set of bolts on eBay for about $100, which is motivation enough to try to figure out something with McMaster-Carr. I'm thinking the approach would be a normal metric-threaded bolt with spacers on it, as opposed to the much more complex design of the Campagnolo originals. Something similar to how Specialites TA triple bolts are made.
Or, perhaps set screws (like this: https://www.mcmaster.com/bolts/set-s...ip-set-screws/) with spacers around it, with a thin nut (https://www.mcmaster.com/browse-fast...in-hex-nuts-8/) to hold inner chainring on without striking the chain stay.
What I'd need to know are two things:
- The length of the Campagnolo stand-off bolts
- The width and threading of the Campagnolo stand-off bolts
__________________
Check out www.djcatnap.com for articles on vintage Japanese & French bicycle restorations, components and history.
Check out www.djcatnap.com for articles on vintage Japanese & French bicycle restorations, components and history.
Last edited by Catnap; 05-11-22 at 02:00 PM.
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Edit - I've received offers to sell me the 100 BCD ring and I'll follow up with those folks. I'd rather have the original 36T than an aftermarket triple-izer.
__________________
Check out www.djcatnap.com for articles on vintage Japanese & French bicycle restorations, components and history.
Check out www.djcatnap.com for articles on vintage Japanese & French bicycle restorations, components and history.
#12
framebuilder
I think I have the spindle... I have to measure the one that was on the bike with the crank. That said, I know I have a 116mm Shimano on hand, that should work with the addition of a 1mm spacer.
There's one set of bolts on eBay for about $100, which is motivation enough to try to figure out something with McMaster-Carr. I'm thinking the approach would be a normal metric-threaded bolt with spacers on it, as opposed to the much more complex design of the Campagnolo originals. Something similar to how Specialites TA triple bolts are made.
Or, perhaps set screws (like this: https://www.mcmaster.com/bolts/set-s...ip-set-screws/) with spacers around it, with a thin nut (https://www.mcmaster.com/browse-fast...in-hex-nuts-8/) to hold inner cif ithainring on without striking the chain stay.
What I'd need to know are two things:
There's one set of bolts on eBay for about $100, which is motivation enough to try to figure out something with McMaster-Carr. I'm thinking the approach would be a normal metric-threaded bolt with spacers on it, as opposed to the much more complex design of the Campagnolo originals. Something similar to how Specialites TA triple bolts are made.
Or, perhaps set screws (like this: https://www.mcmaster.com/bolts/set-s...ip-set-screws/) with spacers around it, with a thin nut (https://www.mcmaster.com/browse-fast...in-hex-nuts-8/) to hold inner cif ithainring on without striking the chain stay.
What I'd need to know are two things:
- The length of the Campagnolo stand-off bolts
- The width and threading of the Campagnolo stand-off bolts
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Washington County, Vermont, USA
Posts: 3,778
Bikes: 1966 Dawes Double Blue, 1976 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1975 Raleigh Sprite 27, 1980 Univega Viva Sport, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1984 Lotus Classique, 1976 Motobecane Grand Record
Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 765 Post(s)
Liked 660 Times
in
351 Posts
This is heartbreaking.
__________________
www.redclovercomponents.com
"Progress might have been all right once, but it has gone on too long."
--Ogden Nash
www.redclovercomponents.com
"Progress might have been all right once, but it has gone on too long."
--Ogden Nash
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,829 Times
in
1,995 Posts
Triplizer has the advantage that the chain won't get caught between the granny and the spider arms.
I think shifts better also.
I think shifts better also.
#15
blahblahblah chrome moly
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,987
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 2,569 Times
in
1,073 Posts
There's one set of bolts on eBay for about $100, which is motivation enough to try to figure out something with McMaster-Carr. I'm thinking the approach would be a normal metric-threaded bolt with spacers on it, as opposed to the much more complex design of the Campagnolo originals. Something similar to how Specialites TA triple bolts are made.
Or, perhaps set screws (like this: https://www.mcmaster.com/bolts/set-s...ip-set-screws/) with spacers around it, with a thin nut (https://www.mcmaster.com/browse-fast...in-hex-nuts-8/) to hold inner chainring on without striking the chain stay.
What I'd need to know are two things:
Or, perhaps set screws (like this: https://www.mcmaster.com/bolts/set-s...ip-set-screws/) with spacers around it, with a thin nut (https://www.mcmaster.com/browse-fast...in-hex-nuts-8/) to hold inner chainring on without striking the chain stay.
What I'd need to know are two things:
- The length of the Campagnolo stand-off bolts
- The width and threading of the Campagnolo stand-off bolts
Alternatively check out these shoulder bolts from Mcmaster: https://www.mcmaster.com/90318A960/
Only $5 each!
The thread is too long, but they're stainless so you can cut them to length and the visible end won't rust. You can also get them in alloy steel, about twice as strong, but those will rust and I think SS is probably strong enough.
The shoulder is only 8 mm, versus the 10 mm hole in a 804 ring, but these will still locate the ring by the counterbore, which is 12 mm. This bolt has a 12 mm head that will nestle into the ring just right. Being "ultra low profile" means these won't rub on the chainstay on a bike with minimal clearance there.
You use those with spacers like these: https://www.mcmaster.com/92871A842/
That's in stainless,and aluminum will be lighter, search for them if you need to save a gram... $3.72 each
Mark B
#16
blahblahblah chrome moly
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,987
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 2,569 Times
in
1,073 Posts
Since the 100 mm BCD can't go smaller than 30t, it is always safe from this. Just watch out on those aftermarket Campy cranks that have been drilled at 74 mm — stay with 26t and up with Record middle, or 28t and up if your middle ring is a Super Record type.
As far as shifting speed/smoothness/reliability, I haven't noticed any difference between triplizer and drilled-spider types, at the same sizes. Unless the triplizer has ramps/pins, I can't see how there would be a difference. I have extensive experience with both. I like triplizers, but just based on aesthetics, the drilled spider type looks more *****in'.
Edit: the censor won't let me say the word that rhymes with witchin'. Is it a bad word? I don't think so but maybe I'm a bad person.
Mark B
#17
blahblahblah chrome moly
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,987
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 2,569 Times
in
1,073 Posts
Alternatively check out these shoulder bolts from Mcmaster: https://www.mcmaster.com/90318A960/
Only $5 each!
Only $5 each!
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
A huge thank you to bulgie !!! I've ordered the bolts and spacers you noted above. You're a lifesaver, man. Your idea is better than either of mine. Once they and the original chainring arrive, I'll assemble them and report back. I've got a Rally derailleur to go with it, and looking forward to piecing together a cool Campy Nuovo Record touring setup.
__________________
Check out www.djcatnap.com for articles on vintage Japanese & French bicycle restorations, components and history.
Check out www.djcatnap.com for articles on vintage Japanese & French bicycle restorations, components and history.