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SR Apex 5 Touring crankset dilemma

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SR Apex 5 Touring crankset dilemma

Old 05-16-22, 03:21 PM
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SR Apex 5 Touring crankset dilemma

My Panasonic PT-4500 came with Deore and specifically a Deore Biopace triple crankset with 50/44/28.

My drivetrain is not playing well together and while the large and middle work well, moving between middle and small is rough.

I decided to switch for an SR Apex 5 triple in 48/44/30.

This still means a 14 tooth drop but I was hoping it would be smoother than the previous 16 tooth drop.

​​​​​​I left the original crank axle (spindle) from the Deore in the BB and slipped on the Apex crankset.

It fits beautifully onto the old axle but it binds tight against the frame.

The original axle is 127mm yet it is apparently too short to take the Apex.

Does anyone know what size (length) axle I need?

Further, does anyone know if anyone makes a cartridge that fits these?

Even if I can't make the Apex crankset work with the Deore group it's a nice crank set and would be a shame if there isn't a an axle or cartridge that will work.

Last edited by WGB; 05-16-22 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 05-16-22, 03:46 PM
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Are you sure 127mm is correct? The Apex-5 Touring originally came with a 119mm 3P, AFIK, for which a replacement symmetrical spindle would be 122mm.
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Old 05-16-22, 04:28 PM
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I do believe that it was 127 but will take it back down (for now I returned the Deore set back to the frame so I don't lose it). Possible I made a mistake.

Having said, isn't 119mm a bit short for a triple? I realize every manufacturer has different lengths but 119 seems short...

Velobase supports the 3P offset axle - now where do I find similar

Per Velobase :

​​​​​​I just installed the triple crankset on my bike with a 122mm spindle and a 1mm spacer.

also

​​​​​​Only recently discovered this very useful site. I have a Raleigh badged SR Apex Type AX-5LASL. This originally came with a 3P offset axle (119mm long). When I came to replace this with a cartridge BB a few years ago a 119mm unit caused the cranks to foul the chain stays and I had to swap this for a 122.5mm unit. This has always baffled me until yesterday when I realised that this is because the cartridge bearings are not offset but symmetrical. I think it likely that the same BB size would work for these (SAX-5TG) cranks.

Last edited by WGB; 05-16-22 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 05-16-22, 04:37 PM
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Search of eBay shows

this one.

​​​​​​https://www.ebay.com/itm/12531584093...EAAOSwI~piSR-8

​​​​​​Square taper 3P nutted bottom bracket axle spindle for 68 mm shell

​​​​​​
An axle for use on cup-and-cone bottom brackets with 68mm shell width.

Embossed on the axle center section:

TH INDUSTRIES
3P CR-BV
08 2001

3P code: see the table for the dimensions of this axle.

This axle is 119 mm across the ends of the square tapers. The dimension across the ends of the threaded posts is 140mm.

Longer taper would typically go on the drive side but the axle can be reversed to get a closer chainline.
Don't use on 70 mm shell, the adjustable cone screws into the bottom bracket too far, leaves not enough engagement with the lock ring. How do I know?

Axle is used but functionally still in excellent condition. Bearing raceways are polished but smooth and not pitted.
The last thread in the thread runout on one side has a chip.

Includes the two crank arm fixing nut"
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Old 05-16-22, 05:15 PM
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Eyeball what you have. I have a bunch of co-op spindles and go by eye when installing something different, or even improving a stock setup. Put the chain on the middle chainring and sight from the back. If a 5 or 7 speed freewheel, it is nice if it all lines up in a straight line on middle rings front and back. If a six speed sight on 3 and 4 in back with middle ring front. Your eye and sighting will be very good telling you how close you are.

When in doubt, I cheat towards having the inner chainring as close as possible to the chainstay. One usually runs the inner chainring on the easier gears, so it helps chainline. Same as on high as it also is probably used on the smaller outboard part of the freewheel. Trust your eye.
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Old 05-16-22, 10:24 PM
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Unless I'm reading too much into it, the catalog implies that you would use a D-3SS spindle (121.5mm, fairly asymmetric) when configuring the Super Apex 5 as a triple rather than a double: https://equusbicycle.com/bike/sakae/c...log18_%204.pdf

Did both arms hit the frame with the 127mm spindle, or just one? Perhaps the crank has been installed and removed a bunch of times in its life, and simply needs a longer spindle than spec.
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Old 05-16-22, 11:07 PM
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Spindle tapers may also not be quite as compatible between JIS and SR maybe being more ISO. The issue of the SR maybe having been used and put on/taken off a few times and may have an enlarged taper. Does it bottom on the taper or even screws down flush with the end of the spindle? If so, either condition suggests the crank hole may be too large for this spindle’s taper, even though the spindle seems quite long.
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Old 05-17-22, 01:58 PM
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The DS crank fits tightly on the Shimano axle but, it butts tightly against the frame, specifically the drive side chain stay. When I added the nut and hand tightened it the cranks will not turned.

I believe that the rear if the Apex is rebated deeper than the Shimanos.
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Old 05-17-22, 02:31 PM
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The drive-side stub of teh spindle is not long enough, since first the crank arm hits the chainstay then the inner of the crank arm interferees with the end of the BB, I think. The question is, why is it not long enough?

It could be the spindle is the correct part and your square holes are not worn out, but the spindle is put in backwards. If you disassembled the entire BB, you could have installed the spindle swapping the drive side for the non-drive. If your spindle is not symmetrical, that could cause your drive side square stub to be too short. If your spindle is original, I'd be surprised if the wrong one was used, besides, it worked until you "fixed" it, right?
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Old 05-17-22, 03:24 PM
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I was trying to use the old Deore crank axle (which is a Shimano product) with the replacement Apex crankset (which is Sakae Ringo (SR). The axle is installed correctly (it's clearly longer on the drive side).

Unfortunately it simply won't work with the Apex crankset.

I expect it's simply wishful thinking on my part that it would and I just need to find a correct fitting 3P or alternatively a cartridge that will work.

Last edited by WGB; 05-17-22 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 05-17-22, 04:07 PM
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Just a thought: instead of getting a longer spindle you could remove the middle ring and have a 48/30 double. You *may* have just enough clearance for that. I did just that a few weeks ago for mrs non-fixie's Zieleman, as she much prefers doubles to triples:

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Old 05-17-22, 04:18 PM
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You could add a spacer on the DS of a cartridge BB to create an asymmetric BB. Both my bikes (gotta have triples with PNW hills and old legs) have had spacers for their combined 18,000-ish miles.
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Old 05-17-22, 07:30 PM
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No, I gotta have a triple. I've never ridden a road bike with a triple so I have to indulge.😁

I always figured I'd need a triple one day and recently my knees have been saying that it's time....😮😦🙄
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Old 05-19-22, 08:46 PM
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I do what non-fixie suggested. I think my chainrings are 27 and 45. The 45 suits 95% of my riding, the 27 suits the other 5% and it all works.
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