Why did high flange road hubs disappear?
10-13-11, 08:41 PM
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Why did high flange road hubs disappear?
I'm asking this here because I'm looking for a history lesson, I like the idea of high flange hubs in terms of stiffness. They're still used in track applications(I've seen a few modern track-only use bikes with high flange hubs), why not for road bikes?
Just wondering because I was in a dangerous place, namely Phil Wood's site, because I was feeling silly and wanted to build some high zoot wheels for my Motobecane, and was thinking high flange hubs and a mild aero rim could be really cool... Apparently they don't make such a hub!
Just wondering because I was in a dangerous place, namely Phil Wood's site, because I was feeling silly and wanted to build some high zoot wheels for my Motobecane, and was thinking high flange hubs and a mild aero rim could be really cool... Apparently they don't make such a hub!
10-13-11, 08:46 PM
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I don't know the answer for sure, but I read some place that Shimano did some test proving the the low flange makes a stiffer wheel. But I really love my Suze ProMax high flange track hubs. They have color changing holograms on the sides.
The finished wheels thay are on are quite stiff.
The finished wheels thay are on are quite stiff.
10-13-11, 08:56 PM
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I'm asking this here because I'm looking for a history lesson, I like the idea of high flange hubs in terms of stiffness. They're still used in track applications(I've seen a few modern track-only use bikes with high flange hubs), why not for road bikes?
Just wondering because I was in a dangerous place, namely Phil Wood's site, because I was feeling silly and wanted to build some high zoot wheels for my Motobecane, and was thinking high flange hubs and a mild aero rim could be really cool... Apparently they don't make such a hub!
Just wondering because I was in a dangerous place, namely Phil Wood's site, because I was feeling silly and wanted to build some high zoot wheels for my Motobecane, and was thinking high flange hubs and a mild aero rim could be really cool... Apparently they don't make such a hub!
10-13-11, 09:10 PM
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There's no real difference in wheels built with low vs. high-flange hubs by any objective measure. Once a wheel is built, it's the tension on the spokes that holds it together, and a "better" wheel will have higher and more evenly distributed tension among the spokes.
That being said, I, too, like high-flange hubs. I like them enough that I created a high-flange Shimano cassette hub from a Deore XT disc-brake hub by machining off the disc lugs and polishing the shell:
It ended up looking somewhat like the 600EX high-flange cassette hub from 30 years ago: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/pages/24.html
Other modern cassette hubs with high flanges:
Electra Ticino: https://store.electrabike.com/eSource..._/_750051.aspx
Suzue Classica: https://store.somafab.com/sucl10rohu1.html
And for the Campy-philes, you can hunt down a FH-00TD hub from the early '90's: https://www.velobase.com/ViewComponen...m=110&AbsPos=0
That being said, I, too, like high-flange hubs. I like them enough that I created a high-flange Shimano cassette hub from a Deore XT disc-brake hub by machining off the disc lugs and polishing the shell:
It ended up looking somewhat like the 600EX high-flange cassette hub from 30 years ago: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/pages/24.html
Other modern cassette hubs with high flanges:
Electra Ticino: https://store.electrabike.com/eSource..._/_750051.aspx
Suzue Classica: https://store.somafab.com/sucl10rohu1.html
And for the Campy-philes, you can hunt down a FH-00TD hub from the early '90's: https://www.velobase.com/ViewComponen...m=110&AbsPos=0
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10-13-11, 09:17 PM
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to answer the OP: fad. People stopped buying high flange
10-13-11, 09:32 PM
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High flange….. Those were days. 
If you raced crits back when, it was the hub to have.
When thief/s ripped off my good bikes out of my garage at the start of this summer they left behind my 30 year old high flange race wheels I had hanging overhead. I can, and did replace the bikes; I could never replace my old race wheels.
Mmmmm, I think my tires have seen better days
If you raced crits back when, it was the hub to have.When thief/s ripped off my good bikes out of my garage at the start of this summer they left behind my 30 year old high flange race wheels I had hanging overhead. I can, and did replace the bikes; I could never replace my old race wheels.
Mmmmm, I think my tires have seen better days
10-13-11, 09:33 PM
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The size of the flange doesn't affect stiffness. That's a myth that many have perpetuated.
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10-13-11, 09:46 PM
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Back in the '70's, but I hung out with a guy who had worked as a pro team mechanic, following the USA race circuit.
He told me the Campy "line" was that the low flange hub made a more resilient wheel.
I guess it was more marketing than fact, but I thought it made some sense, on some esoteric level.
He told me the Campy "line" was that the low flange hub made a more resilient wheel.
I guess it was more marketing than fact, but I thought it made some sense, on some esoteric level.
10-13-11, 09:52 PM
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Doesn't the high flange create a severe spoke angle at the flange? Might have trouble getting 3x or 4x with high spoke counts.
10-13-11, 09:57 PM
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10-13-11, 10:09 PM
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4X is what I've seen as the common lacing on HF...mostly Fuji 
However, I've read that HF and 4X builds a more "supple" wheel, whatever that means.
I just like the way they look.
However, I've read that HF and 4X builds a more "supple" wheel, whatever that means.
I just like the way they look.
10-13-11, 10:19 PM
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Why did high flange road hubs disappear?
10-13-11, 10:19 PM
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They do look nice.
But no. It's not an immeasurable difference. There is no difference. The myth is based on the idea that a longer spoke makes it more resilient, as if you're stepping on a diving board in the middle. But you're not. The spoke is tensioned from end to end, not in the middle. It's not esoteric, it's imaginary.
And large flanges don't make it harder to have tangential spoke patterns. I just laced up a large flange hub to my rim, with 36 spokes and 4-cross.
But no. It's not an immeasurable difference. There is no difference. The myth is based on the idea that a longer spoke makes it more resilient, as if you're stepping on a diving board in the middle. But you're not. The spoke is tensioned from end to end, not in the middle. It's not esoteric, it's imaginary.
And large flanges don't make it harder to have tangential spoke patterns. I just laced up a large flange hub to my rim, with 36 spokes and 4-cross.
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10-13-11, 10:46 PM
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They do look nice.
But no. It's not an immeasurable difference. There is no difference. The myth is based on the idea that a longer spoke makes it more resilient, as if you're stepping on a diving board in the middle. But you're not. The spoke is tensioned from end to end, not in the middle. It's not esoteric, it's imaginary.
And large flanges don't make it harder to have tangential spoke patterns. I just laced up a large flange hub to my rim, with 36 spokes and 4-cross.
But no. It's not an immeasurable difference. There is no difference. The myth is based on the idea that a longer spoke makes it more resilient, as if you're stepping on a diving board in the middle. But you're not. The spoke is tensioned from end to end, not in the middle. It's not esoteric, it's imaginary.
And large flanges don't make it harder to have tangential spoke patterns. I just laced up a large flange hub to my rim, with 36 spokes and 4-cross.
puts a little more distance between the holes....which may or
may not contribute to a stronger flange.
High or low, flanges on alloy hubs are pretty strong IMO.
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10-13-11, 11:07 PM
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Hi-flange was killed by the gram counters. Smaller hubs, thinner spokes, fewer spokes, and you have a lighter wheel. Will you put more power down on a hill with a high flange or low? Can you fell the difference in weight if the weight is at the center of the wheel and not effected by centrifical force. I have always thought that the Campy stars and the Suzue classis are super cool. I never see them at a good price.
10-13-11, 11:11 PM
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Just a note...
I have a single rear of this HF Sunshine Pro-Am sheriff star hub:
Courtesy of VeloBase...
If anyone has an odd front...oh boy, no telling what I might trade.
I have a single rear of this HF Sunshine Pro-Am sheriff star hub:
Courtesy of VeloBase...
If anyone has an odd front...oh boy, no telling what I might trade.
10-14-11, 12:27 AM
#22
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1). They weigh more.
2). They cost more to produce.
3). They do not provide any measurable advantage other than they look neat.
2). They cost more to produce.
3). They do not provide any measurable advantage other than they look neat.
10-14-11, 12:44 AM
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I have a similar problem in that I need a rear to match up with a Zeus High flange hub and the reason I do points to an issue with high flange hubs that you rarely see with low flange... cracks in the flanges.
The Zeus gigantic hubs were prone to this.
Sad... because they don't get much prettier.
The 4x and a more supple wheel is baseless... if you build a wheel right a 4x will be as stiff as a 3x or a 2x.
10-14-11, 01:24 AM
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Courtesy of VeloBase...
Oooh!
I didn't know they made such a hub, learned something new today.
I love the look of high flange as well. At least they are making a comeback in the mtb components.
They are rare to come by out here. :-\
a few of mine...
10-14-11, 02:40 AM
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What if the hub were nearly as large in diameter as the rim, and spokes had nearly zero length?
I fully agree, when considering measurements of the wheel as a complete system, which is the only reasonable thing to do.
Last edited by old's'cool; 10-14-11 at 02:40 AM. Reason: sin-tax