It just doesnt make any sense
11-01-21, 11:15 AM
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Well, it depends on the forum. Virtually every trike rider needs gears that low. Most velomobile riders would kill for a 20 inch gear and 140 inch top gear. Touring cyclists need low and high gears. As do most fast recumbent riders. Probably a lot more than you think
Although I'm not sure why Touring cyclists would really need a very high gear.
I had to look up velomobile. I can't think of a more niche market than that! But I'm not even arguing against triples for niche cases. I can imagine they make a lot of sense on a recumbent. I just don't think most conventional road bikes really need 3x12 gearing and the industry appears to agree on that.
Last edited by PeteHski; 11-01-21 at 11:52 AM.
11-01-21, 11:19 AM
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11-01-21, 11:23 AM
#179
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Where you have mountains, you have foothills. Where you have foothills, you have grades of all sorts, including some long fairly shallow descents where it's nice to have a high gear to move things on a bit faster..
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11-01-21, 11:27 AM
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Only once did I wish I had a higher gear while touring. In northeast Montana. I was chasing our group leader over a 20 mile stretch with a killer tailwind. I sustained 32.5 mph for several miles. IIRC, my high gear was a 44x11. Thing was, my drivetrain was gunked up or something and I could not got into the 11. Finally had to dial it back to 28 mph after being in the red for too long. Fun morning.
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11-01-21, 11:35 AM
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11-01-21, 11:36 AM
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You're coming off as badly as I would if I started trying to tell people what they should or shouldn't be buying for off-road. We really don't do it much if at all so our opinions are pretty much worthless.
And not for nothing, but you ride a bike that doesn't allow you to stand on the pedals, the gearing's set up for a completely different use of your weight and legs. I'm not going to express an opinion on gearing a bent, I wouldn't be able to relate to it.
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11-01-21, 11:38 AM
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For 99.9% of the population a standard 50-11 or 50-10 is plenty high enough for all of that. Like I said earlier, triples are now a niche market.
11-01-21, 11:47 AM
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Nice personal attack. Maybe the moderator should take notice. As a mechanical tech among other things, I assure you I know a lot about gearing.
As others have stated, it is just something new the mfg want you to bite on, to be "up to date"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fortunately most of us ARE NOT so "ignorant" as to bite on this continuing sales ploy.
As others have stated, it is just something new the mfg want you to bite on, to be "up to date"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fortunately most of us ARE NOT so "ignorant" as to bite on this continuing sales ploy.
11-01-21, 11:48 AM
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If we're arguing, it's over whether it's a niche or a niche within a niche.
I don't know about 99.9 %, but I'd agree the exceptions are relatively small in number. As you know, I just happen to be someone in that category. But even so, my 53x11 is actually a smaller ratio than 50x10, but I'm skeptical that a 10 cog isn't a cog bridge too far.
11-01-21, 11:55 AM
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If we're arguing, it's over whether it's a niche or a niche within a niche.
I don't know about 99.9 %, but I'd agree the exceptions are relatively small in number. As you know, I just happen to be someone in that category. But even so, my 53x11 is actually a smaller ratio than 50x10, but I'm skeptical that a 10 cog isn't a cog bridge too far.
I don't know about 99.9 %, but I'd agree the exceptions are relatively small in number. As you know, I just happen to be someone in that category. But even so, my 53x11 is actually a smaller ratio than 50x10, but I'm skeptical that a 10 cog isn't a cog bridge too far.
11-01-21, 11:58 AM
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He was probably using a typical 1x gravel gear setup. Plenty of low gears for the heavy lifting and a modest top end gear. Quite a sensible approach.
11-01-21, 12:07 PM
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11-01-21, 12:09 PM
#189
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As far as I can tell, 1x setups became popular on MTB, then bled into gravel bikes. Reasons I've heard for this are that there are several nearly identical gear ratios with a 2x or 3x (I don't agree, the same ratio using a granny gear feels quite a bit different from the same gear using the middle ring; way more torque from the smaller ring)
The other is that the 'standard' FD is a poor design. I've found this to be true, especially as on many models the mechanism is very narrow and can visibly flex while shifting.
Finally, chain rub and triathlon gearing. I've replaced campy FD's on a very experienced cyclists bike because they didn't know how to trim the FD (which is easier on campy that Shimano imho). I've also had many triathletes bring their bikes in with broken chains and mangled derailleurs from cross chaining (using the biggest and smallest cogs at the same time.
There were double FDs that pushed the chain at an angle, I'm not sure what year, but I've seen 105 and rsx100 made like this. They work beautifully.
So poor(ish) design and rider error is killing multiple chain wheels.
The other is that the 'standard' FD is a poor design. I've found this to be true, especially as on many models the mechanism is very narrow and can visibly flex while shifting.
Finally, chain rub and triathlon gearing. I've replaced campy FD's on a very experienced cyclists bike because they didn't know how to trim the FD (which is easier on campy that Shimano imho). I've also had many triathletes bring their bikes in with broken chains and mangled derailleurs from cross chaining (using the biggest and smallest cogs at the same time.
There were double FDs that pushed the chain at an angle, I'm not sure what year, but I've seen 105 and rsx100 made like this. They work beautifully.
So poor(ish) design and rider error is killing multiple chain wheels.
11-01-21, 12:12 PM
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Road bikes now have 11 or 12 gears in the back, and cassettes that go from 10 or 11 up to 34. Who needs a triple when you have a 36x34 in a double?
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11-01-21, 12:21 PM
#191
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11-01-21, 01:06 PM
#193
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Since this fire needs more gasoline I will note that OP appears to assume that his use case of a recumbent bike on paved roads is the only valid use case.
My personal take is that front triples always shift worse than doubles and the proliferation or rear cogs obviates the extra gear up front. Modern single ring setups started in downhill MTB and cyclocross where a narrower gear range was an acceptable tradeoff for reduced weight and better chain retention. I think double front chain rings still have a place where you need either a wider overall range or closer ratios. Triples are a niche where there is a need for very wide gearing including ultra low gears
My personal take is that front triples always shift worse than doubles and the proliferation or rear cogs obviates the extra gear up front. Modern single ring setups started in downhill MTB and cyclocross where a narrower gear range was an acceptable tradeoff for reduced weight and better chain retention. I think double front chain rings still have a place where you need either a wider overall range or closer ratios. Triples are a niche where there is a need for very wide gearing including ultra low gears
11-01-21, 01:26 PM
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The main 2 reasons I use triples is:
(1) They greatly reduce the amount of times I have to physically shift when I have to shift. Not much of an issue when the terrain in front of you doesn't change much. But when it's a constant widely varying up/down the shifting from one end of your range to the other can wear out my right shifting hand/muscles. At the end of an all day ride, it can mean the difference between being able to squeeze the brake lever or not. With a double, lot's of shifting to get from one end to the other, or even close to the end. Even worse with a 1X. With a triple, most of the range except 1-2 gears on either end can be covered with a couple of front shifts and 1-2 back shifts. The extra shifts really add up over time.
(2) I can skew my gearing one way or the other. I also can limit the amount of sprockets needed on the back. I can gear the bike high or low based on the middle ring. 2 big rings and a granny for bailout. Or, 2 small rings and a biggish one if the ride doesn't have much flat on it.
Either way, it greatly reduces the amount of physical shifting I have to do.(when I have to change gears) Win-win for me. I might not even get on the granny for a month or two, but it's there if I need it. It depends on the ride. I never head out the front door with a planned route in mind. Just point the bike in a direction and take off. Get back when I get back.
What I'd really like to see is a 8-9 speed rear cluster based on 12/13 spacing. It would fit inside 120 spacing and bring all of those pre 126 spaced bikes back to life. Maybe even an adapter body so you could screw it on in place of a freewheel. Or even a new one with that spacing. Same for the frames. They're getting to wide in certain areas. My feet/legs are getting really close to rubbing/contact. Not going to happen, though. Oh well, that's life.
(1) They greatly reduce the amount of times I have to physically shift when I have to shift. Not much of an issue when the terrain in front of you doesn't change much. But when it's a constant widely varying up/down the shifting from one end of your range to the other can wear out my right shifting hand/muscles. At the end of an all day ride, it can mean the difference between being able to squeeze the brake lever or not. With a double, lot's of shifting to get from one end to the other, or even close to the end. Even worse with a 1X. With a triple, most of the range except 1-2 gears on either end can be covered with a couple of front shifts and 1-2 back shifts. The extra shifts really add up over time.
(2) I can skew my gearing one way or the other. I also can limit the amount of sprockets needed on the back. I can gear the bike high or low based on the middle ring. 2 big rings and a granny for bailout. Or, 2 small rings and a biggish one if the ride doesn't have much flat on it.
Either way, it greatly reduces the amount of physical shifting I have to do.(when I have to change gears) Win-win for me. I might not even get on the granny for a month or two, but it's there if I need it. It depends on the ride. I never head out the front door with a planned route in mind. Just point the bike in a direction and take off. Get back when I get back.
What I'd really like to see is a 8-9 speed rear cluster based on 12/13 spacing. It would fit inside 120 spacing and bring all of those pre 126 spaced bikes back to life. Maybe even an adapter body so you could screw it on in place of a freewheel. Or even a new one with that spacing. Same for the frames. They're getting to wide in certain areas. My feet/legs are getting really close to rubbing/contact. Not going to happen, though. Oh well, that's life.
Last edited by seypat; 11-01-21 at 01:34 PM.
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11-01-21, 02:59 PM
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11-01-21, 03:08 PM
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11-01-21, 03:27 PM
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11-01-21, 03:41 PM
#200
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Firstly I have a triple on my tourer, its a granny gear (30), the middle is a 45, and my biggest cog on the back is a 30 .
I need it sometimes with a full touring load, or going up a steep car park incline.
What I can say is changing from one chain ring to the other is a lot slower than the rear derailluer, chain takes longer to wrap itself around, and hence one has to back off the pedals for a little longer, even a greater time to go from the 30 to the 45 as it gets dragged up and over. If the triples are more similar in size then its faster, but Im sure you'd be duplicating a few ratios.
Possibly modern setups with 40 2nd chain ring and bigger rear clusters cover the same range more effectively than the triple I have.
I need it sometimes with a full touring load, or going up a steep car park incline.
What I can say is changing from one chain ring to the other is a lot slower than the rear derailluer, chain takes longer to wrap itself around, and hence one has to back off the pedals for a little longer, even a greater time to go from the 30 to the 45 as it gets dragged up and over. If the triples are more similar in size then its faster, but Im sure you'd be duplicating a few ratios.
Possibly modern setups with 40 2nd chain ring and bigger rear clusters cover the same range more effectively than the triple I have.