J.Higgins 

Here's a good question:

So we've determined that there's a big difference between what tire rolls fast and what tire is flat-less. I have 32-622 Hardshells on the bike now, and I don't find any fault with them on my local roads, but I've heard many more sob stories about them than it take to make me feel confidence in them for a long haul across the country. That brings us to Schwalbe Marathon Plus. My question here is how much would I sacrifice in comfort running a narrower tire to gain a little better rolling resistance? If I run 28-622's, will it roll better, or am I playing whack-a-mole here?

robow

I'm no expert on Marathon Plus, I tried them years ago and hated them, but as I stated above, I did just put a pair of them in 35 mm width on my wife's bike and they actually measure a more narrow 32 mm max. A friend I rode with in October runs Marathon Pluses and his 35 mm also measured smaller than the stated size. So from my very limited data, they seem to measure a size smaller than the stated 35mm size at least on those two different rims. Not sure if this holds for the entire line up or my limited exposure creates a false conclusion but maybe others can chime in.

Btw, like Clifford, over the years I've had two Gatorskins (not Hardshells) blow out a side wall where the bead separated from the side wall (one a wire bead and one on a Kevlar bead) and yet I still tend to gravitate towards those when I tour as I think they offer one of the better compromises between flat protection and ride quality.

DropBarFan

Well I'd think that if you like the 32mm width but want a bit more speed, why not try the 28mm? I figure if you have a Bilenky the cost of the tire experiment is not too great. Ride comfort is highly individual plus we get conflicting info in re wider vs narrower tires.

rivers

I'm currently running pirelli cinturato velo in 32mm on my bike that I use for bikepacking/daily winter commuting. I think they are available in up to 35mm, and are tubeless ready. They have a higher puncture resistance than marathon +, but a lower rolling resistance. I can't fault them so far. Good on road and on light gravel/tow path type surface.

indyfabz

https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...t-ii-700c-tire

I do road and off road with the 35c which is really 37c.

What part of the Northern Tier? I just did Rexford, MT to Whitefish again this June. A good deal of soft shoulder riding to avoid getting squashed by 80 mph traffic on U.S. 93. And there is about 3 miles of gravel heading towards Glacier N.P.

staehpj1

For me it isn't purely a matter of speed. There is that, but once you are going you will adjust to it and it will be the new normal and not be very noticeable on tour. There are two other big factors they are related to speed but have an effect that is in addition to speed. Only you can say if they matter to you.

One of those is sidewall stiffness. It is a factor in speed, but it is also a factor in ride feel. Apparently many riders either don't notice the difference or don't care, but I know that I found the MP to suck some of the joy out of the ride. A supple sidewall makes for a pleasant ride. Yes it is a performance issue, but it is a feel issue too. If that is not the case for you then maybe that just doesn't matter for you. Apparently it doesn't for many people.

Another big factor is weight. To be clear we are not talking about a few ounces we are talking about literally doubling the weight of the tire. This can amount to a couple POUNDS. To make matters worse, this is rotating mass where weight matters most. Even if we were just talking overall weight you could carry a spare tire and still be going a good bit lighter with other tire choices. Heck you could carry two spare tires and be slightly lighter and still have fairly robust tires, not that I am particularly recommending carrying spare tires.

I am not sure about how much that "SmartGuard layer" affects the ride, but I suspect it deadens the feel and absorbs some energy as well. This one is mostly speculation on my part though since I can't tell how much the various aspects of the tire are coming into play.

On running narrower MP's, I doubt that will help much if at all. If you want more performance use a more performance oriented tire. That will yield FAR greater gains.

I have tried a wide variety of tires and the MP was the least pleasant tire I have ever ridden on. I took them off my bike and sold them. Fixing a flat once in a while really isn't such a big deal. I'd much rather have a nice supple ride and need to fix a flat now and then than ride on boat anchors like the MP. If I was paranoid enough about getting stranded with an unfixable flat, I'd carry a folding spare.

J.Higgins 

Thanks for the tips, Indy. I'll be riding the whole thing, East-to-West. How many flats did you get with the Top Contacts? Many? Any?

indyfabz

Despite all the hilly/rocky/gravelly stuff I have done I haven't flatted on one in 5 years. Little piece of wire--possibly from a tire belt--made its way into the tire on a rainy day. Must have happened just before hitting camp because I didn't discover the flat until the next morning. The hole was so small I had to put the tube in a puddle of water to find the leak.

djb

Elcrux, my experience is the polar opposite of yours, you may have seen my two reviews of my experiences with my pair, 26x2inch versions, where I've had by now easily 7000kms on them.
No flats on a trip through about half of Mexico, a fair chunk of Central America, across France, and road and dirt gravel riding around here.
And most of this carrying a good 40,50 or more pounds of stuff on a wide variety of surfaces.

linus

Do you have any data to support your claim? I'm interested in trying out Cinturto for the next trip.

rivers

Bicycle Rolling Resistance website: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...rato-velo-2018

linus

Saw that a long time ago. I guess we interpret the articles differently. Also, those are not a fair comparison(size, category, and etc)

djb

Forgot to add the link
https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1...ly6000kms.html

NC, the one thing I've become convinced of over the last years is how a wider, more flexible tire, makes a real difference in my comfort, on my hands and neck as well as keester. You've got about 15 years on me, but at my age, I find that a more cushy ride means more energy throughout a day.
I ride 28 gatorskins a fair amount, and have for years, but for touring now I wouldn't use 28s, would use at least 32s with gatorskins.
My 2in Supremes worked great for the trips I did, given the wide range of surfaces, but as I ride 35 and 38mm tires also, I'm sure the 700 Supremes in the 35 width range roll really nicely.
There is no doubt that the thin sidewalls that help give them their nice ride and speed, have to be respected, ie not running against sharp stuff.
With reasonable care, wiping tires after going over glass for example, and figuring out what pressures work the best for speed/comfort balance, Supremes in my experience were very reliable, as my reviews showed.

I guess the main topic here is about maximizing speed efficiency and rider comfort, which for a long trip is a big advantage. I really appreciate the speed and comfort of a tire like a supreme, and my experience has convinced me that the comfort aspect of a very nice rolling good wider tire totally outweighs any slight speed advantage of a 28 let's say--and I'm not even sure there is a disadvantage of slightly wider vs a 28.

One reason for this is that in the real world, we are rarely on perfect pavement, and as soon as it's not, a more supple tire wins out, is faster and you get beat up less, so more energy.

J.Higgins 

I think you've sold me. I'll order a set today. Thanks!

For what its worth, I'm a careful rider, and I don't get flatted often. Of course, I've probably jinxed myself now that I've vocalized it.

J.Higgins 

Thanks, DJ. Oh an btw, I sold my Troll to put towards the Bilenky. We're not Troll brothers anymore! When I had the opportunity to sell, I took it. The Troll and all of its virtues paled in comparision to the allure of a sweet Bilenky. No worries, because I'm either going to buy another Troll frame or build the Disc Trucker frame that I have. Knowing me, probably both.

indyfabz

Made the short drive to Bilenky back in 2008 to see if they would widen the holes in a custom rack that was built for a different bike. The place was a total wreck, in part because they were doing renovations. I wondered to myself how many people would hesitate to buy one of their bikes after seeing the place and the neighborhood it's in. It's literally up against the tracks, and next to an old junk yard. But the guys were totally nice. Simon (Who has since started his own place.) said "We'll drill holes in anything as long as it not ours." He then proceeded to do the work in two minutes, gave me a tour of the shop and offered me a snack. He then refused payment. I insisted, so he said "Give me $9." I opened my wallet to discover that it contained exactly 9 one dollar bills.

djb

given that you'll be on pavement all the time, slicks make sense, but given how there will be many days that you will be riding over rough chipseal, or expansion joints, or just plain crappy pavement at times, I'm totally convinced that using a wider tire (ie, not 28 or 32) that has good flat protection but is supple, will be faster overall and more comfortable, and really appreciated when on rougher roads--which will happen a fair amount.

Another factor with slightly wider tires is how it makes things so much easier when riding on a road that has cracks and whatnot that run parallel to you. Like I said, Ive toured a fair amount on 28 slicks, and you do have to be a lot more careful with this sort of stuff, not to mention wider being a lot easier when you have to dive off onto the shoulder if a traffic situation warrants saving your sorry keester by taking the to dirt.

I personally would rather have a tire that I could expect to get many thousands of kilometers out of--and I really only have good experience high kms wise with Ultra Gatorskins in 28s (I think I probably get maybe 5000kms out them, but ridden unloaded and I weigh 65lbs less than you, so not a good example) ,
regular Marathons greenguard I guess, in both 35mm and 38mm, and the 38s have probably 10,000kms on them and are still in pretty good shape
the 2in Supremes with somewhere around 7000kms and not totally knackered.

with all three of these tires, I too rarely flat (touch wood twice, no thrice) and frankly if I were to embark on a trip like you are doing on a 700 bike with that weight of load, I honestly think I'd go with the 700x35 Supremes, given how I like how a 35mm works in general when I commute and how it is a certain amount more comfortable over rough stuff, and how the Supremes are fairly light for what you get flat protection wise vis-a-vis my direct experience with the 2inchers.

but as someone smart here mentioned, it comes down to personal preference, and unfortunately, one really has to ride a certain amount of time on a given type of tire and try diff pressures to observe and make a distinction--and also like its been said, to some folks it doesnt make a diff.

heck, I figure its just worth having new tires that are really good tires, watch the pressures, and watch what you ride over.

and you arent crossing Mongolia, so you'll be seeing bike stores if you want or need to change tires.

and on a different note, thinking of training for your trip, I just rode today for the first time on my winter bike, an old mtb with knobby tires, and was reminded how good training it is on this bike, as the effort needed to go slower than I usually ride at is a bit more, so its great exercise for my soon to be skiing legs--so I hope you can set up a bike on a trainer or something this winter, as it will make a real difference in being stronger sooner when you begin to prepare for your early summer departure.

J.Higgins 

Kinda what I'm thinking! New tires here in the USA are as easy as a phone call and an overnight wait at a campground or motel.

linus

If you are, maybe you can stop by Trek store to pick up a set of tires.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en...oiowC3oECAoQBg

Pretty much most of the countries around the world have decent bike stores somewhere. Seems like Mongolia has Trek, Giant, and Cannondale dedicated stores.

rivers

In my own limited experience (600 miles commuting and club runs over the past month), is that they roll similar to the vittoria rubino pros on my last winter bike. Grip in the wet and on crappy road surfaces is excellent, and no punctures to speak of. I haven't had a chance to use them on a trip yet as winter weather is drawing in and hasn't stopped raining for the past 6 weeks. If we have a nice weekend over the next few months, I'll probably plan a short trip (150 or so miles over a few days) and report back.

djb

touch wood again, but since 89 Ive never had a tire problem on a tour, and I figure that inspecting your tires regularly is all part of my weekly "break day bike go over completly" routine, so at least you know how your tire conditions are, and will or should notice how they are wearing and if any unlikley weird thing is going on like a defect or something--I doubt this rare occurance happens out of the blue with no notice.

to me, keep track of tire life, and if the rear is wearing, stop at a store at some point and put on a new one. This will be a long trip, so its reasonable to change a tire if need be, even if the tire isnt completely worn, why risk pushing it and having the inconvenience factor?
Change the rear at 60-70% wear and its done. In the big scheme of things, its a drop in the bucket money wise anyway, and reduces the pita factor.

but there is still absolutely no reason why you shouldnt easily get 3000kms out of a very good quality tire, and in the end, this is what you are doing right now, researching/preparing beforehand, which is the smart thing to do.

staehpj1

I used to start every tour with new tires (I typically don't do tours of much under 1000 miles so older tires may well need to be replaced while on tour). I figured that I'd use the tires I took off around home, but never did. Being a cheapskate I found that unacceptable and decided that a tour was just more riding so I really don't do much of anything different than I would if staying home. I might start a tour knowing I'll change the tires 1/4 or 1/2 of the way through. If they are getting really close to end of life I have bought new tires and carried them a little while before I got around to putting them on. I do the same for other wear items like chains.

Edit:
Just to be clear, when I said "I do the same for other wear items like chains", I don't mean I have ever carried a chain, just that I have started a tour knowing I will possibly need to change it during the tour.

stardognine

Sorry, I misplaced my mind somewhere, & forgot about this thread. 😁😉

I highly recommend slime tubes AND tire liners, no matter what tires you use. That said, all the tires I've mentioned have that Kevlar reinforcement thing going on, to some extent. So the biggest issue, is the tread. Knobbies are great for avoiding flats from goatheads, but not so good for road riding. I like a semi-knobby tread, that's mostly a slick in the center, but has some decent tread on the sides. Not too much, just enough to keep you going straight, in sand or gravel. 😎

Paul J

My wife and I are planning our first extended tour down the west coast on our tandem and I've been contemplating tire options. I've been thinking of going up to 35's. We've been riding Gaterskins in 28 and 32 over the past 10 years. I tried a set of Victoria Randoneurs in 32 and didn't like them at all. They felt squishy and were more flats prone then the Continentals. We are a heavy team, probably over 400 lbs so are planning to use a trailer rather than panniers to reduce some of the weight on the rear wheel. I've of course followed the tandem form but thought it would be interesting to get some feedback from this group who are more touring specific.

djb

Good point staep, I've generally taken a judgement call in this regard depending on the situation. Oh,one factor for you is that you ride so lightly loaded, which surely helps for being easier on the tires.
Last summer when we rode across France, I just kept my 2inch Supremes on. I debated on putting on some 1.5 regular marathons like my wife's bike has, or getting new 1.6 marathons, but in the end, like you, figured I'd use the old tires and given we were in France, worst case scenario I'd just buy a tire if needed, so didn't carry my spare. I was also pretty confident from my experience with them that they would be ok. I also was carrying a reasonable load, a nearly 7 lb 3 person tent for spacious camping for 2, and grocery stops were heavy sometimes, so i went with what i know makes things easier on my wheel set.

Informal Run down tests over my time with Supremes on have shown me that they do roll really nicely, and i don't see much difference compared to friends bikes with narrower tires, although I'm sure the 35 ish width Supremes are that much quicker,rolling resistance and lighter.

No doubt though, they are pricey.
Looks like on some websites you can get them for around 50 clams, which is completely reasonable for a high quality tire.