cudak888 

I tell you, you never know how the day is going to end. Late in the afternoon, I get a call from a friend who asked if I could help him remove a couple of freewheels.

He's been telling me about this "dented Bianchi" he's been holding onto for a while, and happened to bring it along.







"Well, someone abused the hell out of it, but that's no ordinary Bianchi, my friend. And get some cardboard under that Magistroni crankset, dammit."

"Oh, but look on the downtube. It's not a dent, but there's something wrong with the tube."



"It's had a front-ender. But you know...we might be able to do something about that."



Now, I'm no gugie and don't deserve the honorary title of "bike butcher" by any means, but "conniving cold-setter" suits me just fine.

There was no way I was going to let this poor, abused Bianchi leave this establishment without bending the poor thing to my will "improving" it. After all, the last bike I pulled the headtube out from was fender1's 1980's Bianchi Professional, so fate had clearly dictated that all bent Bianchis shall make the pilgrimage to my shop for iron molecule rearrangement.



Dumping the 1/8" headset balls. They were pretty gunked up, so getting them out wasn't as easy as it seemed.



"Go ahead and laugh. At the socks, at the sandles, at the frame, at the wall, I don't care, this is some serious business here!"

All jokes aside, things are indeed better. Both seattube and headtube are parallel now, and while the downtube still has a crease, it might roll out. Emphasis on the "might." Friend doesn't want to commit to making a mess of it just yet if that weird white finish happens to be the original. I even entertained that thought myself, but - offhand - I can't imagine a Bianchi of this era with a fully chromed frame and integrated headset lugs not featuring those lugs in chrome.





It's a surprisingly decent paint job though - looks like old lacquer.

Get a load of the beefy chainstay bridge too. Lots of room in there for a big tire...




-Kurt

bulgie 

If you decide the frame is toast, carefully remove the headset pieces and sell them separately to recoup some investment. Assuming it's in decent riding shape. Those headsets are rare and highly sought-after by Specialissima owners.

If you knock the pressed-in cups out of the head tube, I think you'll find they have the famed <C> in a diamond indicating the headset was made by Campagnolo. At least mine was; I know lesser Bianchi models didn't get the Campy headset.

Although the cool integrated headset was my favorite feature and why I wanted a Specialissima, it's also the frame's Achilles heel, can even rise to the level of "dealbreaker" if it gets notchy, a.k.a. "false-brinelling", and you can't find a replacement. I think it makes this frame less likely a candidate for replacing the TT & DT. That's always a tough sell, hard to justify the cost of such a repair, but even less attractive on this frame with the weird headset. What if the lugs distort from brazing, we don't have the reamer/facer tool to true up the bearing seats, as we would do for any normal frame. Of course while replacing TT & DT, we could just replace the HT and lugs too, making it take a normal headset, but then is it even still a Bianchi?

So I'd say just ride it until it cracks at the bulges where it got wrinkled in the crash, and then make a shop stool out of it, or a fence around your compost pile or whatever, if you can't bear to just saw it up and throw it away.

Thanks for sharing, it's fun to look at and hash over.

cudak888 

That decision should be invoked more often at my shop.

For better or worse, it doesn't.

Well, that's not my decision to make, as this thing isn't mine...yet. Either that, or you know exactly what I tend to do in these scenarios: If it's in front of my face, I buy it

I wouldn't be surprised if the lower cups may have some brinelling from the crash; the fork shows absolutely zero damage from it. The blade tubing has a slightly more pointed profile than 1970's era Reynolds or Columbus. Either way, the fork is big, beefy, and I can imagine how it transferred the force of the impact straight to the frame.

Either way, the frame wrinkle isn't the only thing. Someone went to town ruining the rear drop eyelets too. The bottom of the left seatstay is also not perfect; you can tell that a bit of cold setting happened there at one time to straighten it out from some damage way in the past.

It's been around the block, has been abused over the years, was last used as a commuter with a basket, and these details contributed to my eagerness to play Yank the Frame with it. There's little to lose here, but it's not far gone enough that it's not worth a shot to revive it.



I'm thinking though - wouldn't someone with a nice enough Specialissima be able to get a machinist to turn a couple of suitable replacements for the recessed bearing raceways if they were really desperate? It's an invisible part that should be easy enough for someone to replicate.

As for its fate, I'm not as fatalistic about that downtube. Of course, I could be wrong. But I'm already sizing it up for a purpose quite Fracophillian - if the price is right.



It seems as if I tend to do this with beat-up 1960's Italian framesets...




-Kurt

AdventureManCO 

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes es yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes es yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes


Couple thoughts. Could an insert be made that allows the innards of an A9 heaset to go in? - those roller bearings are sort of set at a 45 degree angle (a guess) and I'm wondering if a similar matching insert could be made for it. You'd need a machinist with a bit of knowledge and love of old bikes, but not insurmountable.

Also, regarding the roll on that tube. So far, all I've seen for rolling out dents are blocks. But I kinda wonder if an actual 'roller' might be able to be made to do that job and preserve the paint.

In the HVAC world we use pipe cutters, which have a couple rollers on the bottom to align to the tube -



If there was a way (there is always a way) to replace that pizza cutter wheel with another roller, you'd have an adjustable 3-roller system that might do a lot less damage to paint work. A set of blocks rubs right on the paint, no doubt gouging or rubbing the paint off. But a hard roller rolling over the paint work might stand a much better chance and doing less damage. I don't know if it might be more or less supportive of the surrounding metal as you'd work it, but the work would be way more visible as you were working it, and far easier to adjust.


If the 'H' bike ever needs this type of work done, I know where to send it. And I know how I'd send it as well -

gbi

With that look in your eye (photo #5) and your ability to bring frames back to life, I was thinking maybe Dr Framenstein.

cudak888 

"All right, all right, all right!"

I'm pretty sure the A9 - even stripped down to the steel raceways and bearing carriers - has a much larger OD than the Bianchi / Campagnolo cups. I'll measure the OD and photograph them today. They take a million 1/8" bearings and thus don't require too much surface area for the raceway itself.

I was considering rolling out the dent with blocks, but my friend doesn't want to crack the paint off there for now - assuming it might be original. The fork is painted white above the crown in a very factory manner, but there are traces of what I suspect are a deep semi-opaque teal blue, like this:



I'm not really sure a frame dent roller would apply enough force before trying to twist itself off. Maybe if there were a few extra rollers to cradle the tube?

If you want to build it, I'll find something to test it on

Really? I thought we finally found the one frame that would be improved if thrown 50 feet by a FedEx driver.

"Not Framenstein, FRAH-MOHN-STEEEN!!!"

(And a million "thank yous!" for that, I shall co-op that name )

-Kurt

bikemig 

Love the thread and the bike.

cudak888 

Some more pictures and measurements.

The bearing cups measure 37.3-ish millimeters across, at least from a quick check with this dead digital caliper. No idea if the seat tapers.



Appears to be the same on the bottom:



And presenting MISTER Fork:



So the white was taped off as you see here...



...there remains evidence of another color spotted throughout the steerer tube:



Not sure if that's a mark from the tubing being rolled or a seam line:



I gave the raceway a very quick wipe. Might be OK. Am I correct in assuming that the raceways are identical pressed parts in the lower and upper cup as well?



-Kurt

Mad Honk 

Dr Frah-Mohn-Steeen makes it sound as though Mel Brooks is being channeled through my computer. I've gotta check my Malwarebytes subscription. Har!

repechage

Pretty sure this paint is not original, I have always seen these paired with chrome headlugs when original.

SJX426 

Kinda like this
Bianchi1971IntegratedHeadset on Flickr

and this
PXL_20221112_134034057 on Flickr

cudak888 

I've been reciting this all day. Including the bit where Gene shouts it out. I wonder what the neighbors think.

Ah, what the hell, they already know I'm nuts.

I'm convinced of it at this point. The chrome on the main tubes are roughened up for paint just as I'd expect (I've seen the exact same on Japanese and Taiwanese '84-85 Raleigh USA fully-chromed frames), but the chips around the headlugs betray a polished surface finish underneath the paint.

-Kurt

Mad Honk 

Kurt,
Send it to me and I will give it to my chrome guys. They do great work, but at a price. And I am sure your pockets are deep enough to to pay for the chroming. I am considering sending my Ochsner to them for re-chrome. I can send you a copy of the bill if you are worried about the costs. smiles, MH

bikemig 

Time for new batteries for that caliper. I still like my Mitutoyo vernier calipers; they've been going strong for longer than I care to admit.

cudak888 

I don't even own the frame yet

Let's not forget about the warpy warpy on the downtube either!

Those are from Hateful Freight. I don't know why I own them or accept their presence.

-Kurt

RCMoeur 

So that's what they're calling it these days. Sometimes it seems that this entire site is turning into OnlyFrames, with all the tales of lascivious molestation of rigid tubing...

RCMoeur 

My dig-tail calipers make the weekly journey with me down to the co-op for my shift. Given the threat of damage or unauthorized re-appropriation, I think there is a valid niche for certain devices from the Curse of Camarillo.

Mad Honk 

Of course Kurt could just spring for the three bucks to replace the battery, but that would be too easy. Smiles, MH

bulgie 

On mine, the upper and lower races are slightly different. Same diameter but different heights.

I'm pretty sure the one in your pictures is not made by Campagnolo. Hard to tell through the grime, but isn't that a vee-shaped race, where each ball hits in 4 places, 2 on the top and 2 on the bottom? Like certain Stronglight headsets from early-'70s and older? I think that's the cheaper headset. The Campy headset uses a typical Campy style "cup and cone" shape.

I once had my Specialissima and a cheaper model apart at the same time, so I took some pics and made a rudimentary webpage showing the differences.

I have managed to purchase several replacement headsets of the cheaper, vee-shaped race type, in my decades of searching, but they wouldn't work in my Specialissima, the bores are deeper in my frame. I suppose I could machine some spacers to put in the bottom of the bore before the race, so it doesn't go in as deep, never tried it though. One of the NIB replacements I bought said EB on the box, but that's Emilio Bozzi, not Eduardo Bianchi. Those headsets were used on other brands besides Bianchi BITD, such as Maino, Gloria and Umberto Dei. Last I checked, you could still buy a Dei with the integrated headset, so they may still be made, and/or available to buy. Not sure if a Dei headset would fit in a Bianchi though. My EB replacement headset did have the same dimensions as the cheaper Bianchi. Oh and the EB box had "Tipo Bianchi" (Bianchi type) on it, looking like a hand-applied rubber stamp, like they had multiple types that used the same boxes? The other NIB replacement headsets I was able to buy were FB brand (fratelli Brivio) and Way-Assauto, and they also shared the same dimensions as the cheaper Bianchi. Only the Campy variant on the Specialissima seems to have the deeper bores.

All the Campy-made Bianchi headsets that I've been able to confirm had four holes for the pin wrench, and all the V-groove types have had two. I think that might be a rule, in which case you can tell from looking at the outside of the headset without disassembling it. Can anyone confirm or refute this idea? How about you Kurt, two holes or four in yours?

Kurt asked if the bore where the races press in is straight-sided or tapered — it's straight (cylindrical), no taper, flat bottom. Making a proper reamer to true those up after brazing wouldn't be too terribly expensive, but not worth it just to repair one frame. Unless it was Coppi's actual hour-record bike or some such precious treasure.

Mark B

bulgie 

Yes that can be done. Hardening (heat-treating) and precision-grinding after hardening are the expensive steps. Necessary if it's a bike to ride a lot of miles, not a wall-hanger. Even properly-hardened headsets fail for high-mileage guys. I could see skipping the heat-treat and regrind if it's not your daily rider.

On mine, after giving up on finding a replacement, I had mine re-ground by a bearing specialist, who took it down to just below the depth of the indents. That was little enough that the gap between the upper and lower cups didn't close up, causing rubbing — I had been wondering if that might happen — phew! What I still don't know is, were the parts originally through-hardened, or only case-hardened? And if the latter, did we grind through the thin hard layer into the softer steel below? I don't know, because I never rode that bike after getting the grinding done. It sure is smooth as, um, something that's reeeally smooth? (Back to simile school for me.) My guess is it's probably good enough for the typical collector who won't put long miles on a 1960 bike, it'll just get pulled out for the occasional Rose Bowl ride or Eroica.

The main reason I never built it up to ride is the frame size, which was perfect for me when I bought it ~30 years ago. But now I'm fat and inflexible, and I need a larger frame to get the bars up to riding height. I will probably sell the bike because of that. With full disclosure about the headset of course.

Mark B

SJX426 

@bulgie - thanks for the discussion on the HS! My Bianchi has the attributes you describe for a Campagnolo HS.
Do you know if it was used on other Bianchi models than Specialissima?

bulgie 

My Specialissima and a cheaper Gran Sport I owned for a while are the only two I ever had apart.
When I asked that question on CR I don't think I got a definitive answer, but the Campy may have been used on Team Issue frames (slightly different than Specialissima) and maybe the next step down, the Competizione. Don't quote me on that!

I'm pretty sure no Bianchi older than about 1960 used the Campy. Even top of the line Bianchis like Folgore and Folgorissima had the vee-shaped races.

The Campy style was used up until late '60s for sure and one guy thought his 1973 had it. They changed the design of the lower bearing though. Mine, the older style, what presses into the frame is actually a cone, and the thing pressed on the fork crown is a cup. The later model switches that, with the cup pressed in the frame and a cone on the fork. You can tell without disassembling which style you have because when you turn the handlebars, the prominent chrome-plated thing turns with the fork on mine. On the newer style (late '60s?), the chrome thing stays stationary relative to the frame, doesn't rotate with the fork.

The "tell" for a Campy headset is when you take it all off, there's a C-in-a-diamond logo stamped in, on surfaces you can't see until it's completely removed from the frame and fork. Well, that and it being a cup-and-cone type bearing, not the vee-shaped races.

cudak888 

Whew, lots to take in.

Like every Frarbor Height digital caliper I've ever seen, it stopped working. Battery or no battery.

I wish that page came up in Google, Mark; it's exactly what I was looking for. I'm not 100% sure, but it might be a V-shaped race. I'll soak one of the races in degreaser and find out. It's a two-pin headset, so knockoff it seems. The races certainly don't have a Campagnolo finish to them; they don't look that much different than a 1970's Raleigh crown race.

My guess is that - at one time - there might have been a few brands making replacements for these. Probably not too many and probably all in Europe. Tracking that down is pure lucky.

I'm sure there's a cutter out there somewhere on this earth that'll fit, could be made to fit, or some firm in China would do a small run of for the right price.

-Kurt

SJX426 

Just for clarity, post #11 is a 71 Bianchi of unknown model.

eeuuugh

You may be able to find an adjustable reamer with a range that covers your current ID and target ID. The cheapo chinese ones on ebay have worked great for me on mild steel.