T Stew

I've got a set of wheels that have hairline cracks around the spokes. I have a frame I'm building up (88 Schwinn Circuit) that needs wheels, and the set I have with cracked rims is actually the right groupset (Suntour Sprint) that came on the bike originally and is in great shape so I'd like to keep the hubs and build new wheels. The cracked rims where black (mostly, where it hadn't peeled off ) and I wanted silver for the more vintage look anyhow, and I thought it would look a bit different with some big deep V's so I got the rims recently. The deep v's will need shorter spokes, but I am not sure how to measure, or what good spokes and nipples are. Can someone offer some advice or point me in the right direction? I want a good set, but not over the point of diminishing returns where things get really costly for little gain. I've never built a wheel, but thought I should figure it out. I might just assemble it though, and then take it somewhere for the spokes to get properly tensioned as that seems to be a cross between art and magic, neither of which are skills I posses. But I think I can do most of the leg work getting materials and assembling.

Andrew R Stewart 

There are many spoke length calculators available via on line. A google search will bring up your choices. here is one that I've used Spoke Length Calculator another is the DT Swiss one.

You'll need to understand and measure the various terms/dimensions that are needed. Most are pretty straight forward to measure with a hand rule or caliper. The rim effective rim diameter is the one where many have problems. Depending on who you choose to follow it's either the diameter of the rim's spoke bed where the nipple sits or the diameter within the nipple where the spoke end is. There is a 2-4mm difference between the two. This is where an experienced builder is a big help. They know all this and they know what spoke calculator does which result and they know how to measure the ERD in a way that works for their methods. Many rim manufactures will state their version of the ERD in the rim specs or even labeled on the rim.

Over the years I have calculated and then cut to length (yes I have a spoke cutter/threader) sets of spokes for many customers and they have either just done the lacing up and we do the tensioning or they do all. We have a basic charge to do the calculation added to the set of spokes cost.

I strongly bring into the situation an experienced builder or the LBS's builder now before you spend $. Let them guide you in spoke selection and fall back on them for further advice or help as needed. If you ride a lot and like to work on bikes you'll undoubtedly be playing with wheels and such in the future and having a mentor and fall back option is a good plan. Do use them to source all you can justify as they will be there on a Friday before your weekend ride when you've hit your limit and still need the bike. Andy.

andr0id

I remember the first wheel I built. My boss didn't tell me how, just handed me a good wheel and said to copy it.

First time around he says I forgot to cross the spokes over each other. I fix that.

Then he says the valve hole is wrong, I fix that.

Then he tells me the hub label needs to be under the valve hole. Argh... I fix that.

I think I built that wheel 4 or 5 times. But I remember all the things to check 40 years later.

fietsbob

you only get to re use spokes if the 2 rims are the same ..

Then its easy , you tape them together and move the loosened spokes without disturbing the lacing Pattern.

Kopsis

I use https://leonard.io/edd/ since it has a pretty good database of hub and rim dimensions. Unless you're looking to save weight, stainless 14 gauge (2.0 mm) non-butted spokes are probably what you want. Any of the well-known brands (Sapim, DT Swiss, Wheelsmiths, etc.) will do. Get a set of brand-name brass 12 mm nipples and have at it. Sheldon Brown's website will walk you though the process. I found Roger Musson's e-book (Wheelbuilding book for building bicycle wheels) to be really helpful for DIY tool information (though the book will set you back $15).

A monkey could follow the steps to get a wheel laced correctly. If you want to learn, you need to take it all the way. Tensioning/truing is more method than magic. With the right tools and techniques it's not terribly difficult to get nice true wheel. Remember that as long as you haven't over-tensioned anything, you can always go back and try again. There's a huge sense of satisfaction when that wheel spins true with nice even tension by your own hand

rmfnla

I think the OP has made it clear that this is not the case here...

Drew Eckhardt 

Measure the ERD on your rims using your nipples and a pair of spokes in opposite holes threaded to your target depth (generally the bottom of the slot).

Measure across the elbows with calipers and add twice the spoke length. Do the same 90 degrees away. If that's different do the two remaining multiples of 45 degrees. Average.

Few people document how they measure ERD, plus it varies between wheel batches as extruder dies wear and other things change.

Quality 2.0/1.8mm double butted spokes will work great. I like DT spokes which have smooth transitions between sections, although Wheelsmith and Sapim should prove as durable.

Brass nipples are more resistant to user and environmental damage. They often come with the spokes.

Lubricate spoke threads and nipple sockets with grease or anti-seize so they turn easily for the rim's lifetime.

Don't be afraid of the building process - it takes a while but is not hard (easier than adjusting a front derailleur) provided you're not trying to be fast enough to turn a profit. Jobst Brandt tested _The Bicycle Wheel_ by having his grade-school aged sons build wheelsets using it and no other references.

TGT1

The key thing will be to establish what the ERD of your rim really is. There are several methods for doing this and Google is your friend.

No magic or mystical secrets required, but a little elementary math and patience is required.

My first attempt. I sat in front of the computer with St Sheldon's tome on the screen and followed it.
There were a couple of mis-located and redone spokes, but it still didn't take all that long.

https://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plus...eel-today.html

After running it in for a couple of hundred miles it was about 0.015 TIR. Re-trued it to 0.004 TIR, That's just the OCD kicking in, but then I balance the wheels too, just because I can.

Retro Grouch 

My go-to source for spokes has become Dan's Comp. They're cheap, they're fast, They have Sapin spokes, and they'll sell you the exact length and number that you need.

You have to call them up on the telephone to order spokes. I think that they evaluate the buyer a little bit when they take the order.

T Stew

Thanks all, great info! It'll take some time to digest and research. Yeah I may try going the whole way, just want to build it myself for sure and if I need to I'll have lbs do the final tensioning. But I like to DIY so I'll give it a shot first. I don't have an LBS close by and the closest one didn't give me the warm-n-fuzzy when I took one bike in for tune up last year. I wasn't going to pay them $50+ to tune up my $80 Le Tour though, so I did try to true the wheels on that bike myself that were obviously off. But I really was nervous about too much tension, etc, how many spokes to adjust around the area, etc. I got it fairly straight but I have no idea if I made some to tight and some too loose or what.

Weight is a slight concern, this is Schwinns best steel bike of the year, aside from the Paramount and Prologue which I believe weren't whole bikes but frames built to order. I'll probably be building this as a fast road bike. Then again the deep v's are fairly heavy I think, so it's not like I am going total weight weenie here.