Tristanh666

hello everyone, I'm currently in the process of learning how to build wheels. I just have a few nooby questions regarding the relationship between spokes & nipples. are there any specs between the two that should match?
also do the nipples need to be a certain length/diameter to match the rim?
thanks!

Kimmo

You don't have to worry about nipple hole diameter unless you're using super-beefy 13g nipples, in which case the rim needs drilling out, pretty easy.

Usually 13g isn't in the picture though; the vast majority of nipples are 14g. Some spokes use 15g nipples, but that's mostly an old-time thing. You can screw a 14g nipple onto a 15g spoke and even get a bit of tension up before you strip the thread, so watch out; the difference is only 0.2mm (14g=2mm, 15g=1.8mm).

Most rims don't require special nipples (aside from those in 'wheelset systems' with proprietary bits), but some deep-section rims require longer nipples or reversed nipples, which are kinda semi-standard. The trend at the high end seems to be going away from deep-bladed spokes requiring slotted or straight-pull hubs, in favour of the Sapim CX-Ray, widely regarded as the ultimate spoke (I just relaced my WH-R540s with em, and damn they're sweet), available in elbowed and straight. They can be had for as little as ~US$2.70 each with a Polyax ally nipple, which is a bargain.

A new standard that seems to be emerging is 16h radial straight-pull front and 20h straight-pull rear, with lacing variations (radial DS is a good one, particularly with an off-centre rim, serves to improve the DS/NDS tension ratio). 20h/24h is reasonably common too, and would be a good place to stop shedding spokes for heavier riders. Pretty much all these wheels are 'system' wheels, and thus the bare hubs aren't generally available, but most use standard spokes like the CX-Ray (they're not quite perfect for a WH-R540 for example, but close enough). So you can come across such hubs more and more as the years go by and wheels die, and DIY 16/20h straight-pull wheelsets in the traditional manner. Pretty cool.

You should read some books on wheelbuilding; Jobst Brandt's The Bicycle Wheel is a pretty good place to start (his kids built their own wheels after reading his book, and the wheels were good). It's on Amazon. I ripped off my copy in a torrent of technical bike books, but I'd be surprised if it was still being seeded, and it was an earlier edition.

Building with new stuff is actually surprisingly simple when you know the system and you apply it methodically; it's almost pure science. The art really only comes into it when you're stuck with beat-up old stuff and have to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

And you don't need a stand, you can just use zipties on the frame and fork (or on road bikes with dual pivot brakes, the pads - although you may still want a ziptie for radial runout). You don't need a dishing guage either; you can just flip the wheel.

Dan Burkhart 

Be sure the gauge of the nipples matches that of the spoke, and if you are using nipples longer than 12 mm, be sure the spokes will thread all the way through without bottoming out.
I built a set of track wheels yesterday with extra deep aero rims, and while 12 mm nipples could have been made to work, 16 mm look better and are much easier to work with in that application.
However, standard 9mm spoke threading bottoms out in the 16 mm nipples, so I have to apply extra long threading to the spokes.

Kimmo

Oh yeah, the spoke should make it to the nipple's head, too - otherwise the nipple can break, particularly ally ones, and particularly if it's held off-axis by a poorly-aligned hole.

Leif1313

Years ago, the Rev Chuck posted his build method, you can search for the chuck method... I may still have it somewhere. It was pretty well written and it gave a good order of what to do first, second third and so on.

I built my first wheel using Probst's book, it is a wealth of knowledge for building and repairing wheels. Chuck's method is perfect if you are starting with all new parts.

FBinNY 

Other than the obvious, such as matching gauge, the first thing I do is thread nipples onto spokes to see how far down they go. I look for nipples that can thread far enough for the spoke to stick through by 2-3mm.

This gives me the maximum margin of error on spoke length. I can safely target for the spoke to come to the top of the nipple, and have room for it to end 2mm high or low from there.

Bandrada

Can you just use longer nipples?

gruppo

The essential things for the first time build are the book "The Bicycle Wheel" and:

1. Employ 14 ga. spokes
2. Use a 3X or 4X lacing pattern
3. Ensure the correct length spokes and nipples (For a traditional build that will likely be two spoke lengths)
4. Lube the nipples a bit
5. Be methodically and patient
6. Use good quality spoke wrenches (Park's two sided for the beginning and four sided for the finish in a 14 ga. will be fine)
7. You'll need a dishing tool
8. A decent substitute for a truing stand is to buy a decent old steel frame, fix it to a work bench, and use the fork to true the front wheel and the rear triangle for the rear (For access have the rear triangle extend past the end of the bench and turn the fork sideways) - a bit unwieldy but much easier than trying to proceed using a built bike
9. Another good option, if available, is your local bike coop and use their dishing tool and truing stand

Good luck!

SBinNYC

Not necessarily. Some spoke nipple manufacturers (e.g. DT) lengthen the amount of thread for longer nipples. This means the spoke will bottom out sooner the longer the nipple. The bottomed out spoke may not have sufficient tension. Therefore, you will have to compensate by shortening the spoke length.

cny-bikeman

If the spokes are too short the load will be on the nipples at the highest stress point near the rim edge, and a longer nipple will not change that. If the spokes are on the long side and paired with a long nipple you may run out of threads on the spoke.

Bandrada

Thanks. One of my LBS's make spokes to custom lengths. That'd be pretty darn handy!

I'm fairly new to the art, but I see a major economical benefit to using one size spoke.

FWIW, the Park 4-sided spoke wrench I have is way out of tolerance, so I use it for the beginning as it's got a bigger grip, and believe it or not the cheapo 3-sided tool that I got from price point fits nice and snug. What's a two-sided wrench look like?

When you say lube the nipples a bit, are you referring to the threads or the head? I lube the head sometimes when I'm done to create a little bit of a buffer at the contact points on the rim if they are "pinging."

Dan Burkhart 

Unless you can roll a longer thread on the spoke. I've adapted my spoke threader to roll either 9 or 13mm of thread so I can cut the spokes to pass right through to the slot in 16mm nipples without bottoming out.

Bandrada

I like the idea of using longer nipples. Also a big fan of larger hub flanges and deeper rims.

Dan Burkhart 

You'l like this set I just finished building. These are the deepest rims I've built with so far. 80mm across.



I built them for a LBS that I do wheel work for. They had a set there that one of their in store guys built with 12mm nipples, and when I looked it over, it just didn't look right.
So I did the right thing and built this set with 16 mm.