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Any New Developments in Non-Offensive Headlamps?

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Any New Developments in Non-Offensive Headlamps?

Old 06-02-23, 03:42 PM
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michaelm101
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Any New Developments in Non-Offensive Headlamps?

Just wondering if there have been any new, less expensive developments of Busch & Muller's vertical cutoff beam design?

Summer's just around the corner and I'll be going into Niterider mode very soon!

My current lights are bright, but make me appear narcissistic to oncoming traffic and pedestrians...

Thanks in advance!
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Old 06-02-23, 03:47 PM
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i don't know the answer to your question, but I am very grateful you are asking it. I came rather close to having a nasty accident one very dark night in the Santa Cruz mountains when I was driving and several head-lamped cyclists on the wrong side of the road were coming at me. I thought it was a large truck or something in the wrong lane, and started to get off the road (where there is essentially no room) to avoid a head-on, which would have taken me directly into the path of these cyclists. I like to think I am better primed to deal with bicycle traffic than the average car driver, but for a split (and potentially fatal) second or two, my brain was completely confused by the input.
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Old 06-02-23, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
i don't know the answer to your question, but I am very grateful you are asking it. I came rather close to having a nasty accident one very dark night in the Santa Cruz mountains when I was driving and several head-lamped cyclists on the wrong side of the road were coming at me. I thought it was a large truck or something in the wrong lane, and started to get off the road (where there is essentially no room) to avoid a head-on, which would have taken me directly into the path of these cyclists. I like to think I am better primed to deal with bicycle traffic than the average car driver, but for a split (and potentially fatal) second or two, my brain was completely confused by the input.
I totally hear you. When that bright beam, or those bright beams, are in your face, particularly when you're at speed moving at it, it forces a primal panic reaction, that in your case may have been fatal.
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Old 06-02-23, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101
I totally hear you. When that bright beam, or those bright beams, are in your face, particularly when you're at speed moving at it, it forces a primal panic reaction, that in your case may have been fatal.
What is really remarkable is how, in that split second, my brain filled in the "missing" details. If you hooked me up to a lie detector, and asked if I saw a huge truck grill coming at me, I would have said yes and passed that test. It was only when the lights started going in different directions that I realized what was going on.
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Old 06-02-23, 07:17 PM
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I use 2 forward lights for night riding and 2 rear lights. The one on the bars is angled to only light up @20' in front and has a high/low switch that I usually leave on low. It's just for vehicles to know I'm there. My bright spot beam is on my helmet and I use that to actually see the terrain in front of me and make a point of keeping my head down when approaching vehicles or completely off if there are street lights or other lighting. I have used it to blind people temporarily when they've PO'd me, but that's another story. I like my setup and I haven't had any problems with cars or people flashing their brights at me or not seeing me.
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Old 06-02-23, 09:21 PM
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The issue I have with helmet lights is so many of the users don't get the "please don't look at me!" pleading of fellow cyclists. I make it a point not to acknowledge them so there is less chance of them turning their head toward me.
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Old 06-02-23, 09:53 PM
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This is a still from my Garmin dashcam. It actually shows the road, etc, much better than I could actually see it at the time. I was in essence night-blinded by the lights. The two sets of bright lights are the night cyclists coming at me on the wrong side of the road. All I could see was those two sets of lights, and the car behind them (which had dropped them off -- night shuttle I guess). There are unsanctioned trails nearby, which I assume they were heading toward. This is a road with a posted speed limit of 40 mph; people typically drive much faster, even under poor visibility conditions like that night.

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Old 06-03-23, 06:02 AM
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Lumintop B01
Outbound Detour
BM Ixon Core

Those are the three recent. The Lumintop has about a relatively cool 4-5000K emitter and the Outbound is a bit hotter but also seems acceptabl, if the alleged offense is the shrillblue intensity of misaligned dynamo lamps with retina piercing 6500K emitters.
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Old 06-03-23, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
I came rather close to having a nasty accident one very dark night in the Santa Cruz mountains when I was driving and several head-lamped cyclists on the wrong side of the road were coming at me.
Riding on the wrong side of the road is asking to be hit. Riding on the wrong side of the road at night is almost guaranteed to end badly.
I think every one of us presented with the same situation shown in your dash cam photo would have thought the same thing. I hope those "cyclists" soiled their riding shorts and learned a lesson.
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Old 06-03-23, 08:11 AM
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I wonder what they were thinking being on the wrong side of the road? Weird.

I use Cygolites as a backup to my dynohub lights. The Cygolites that I have all have a fairly sharp cutoff. It's done via a Fresnel lens, which is sub-optimal, but it does work pretty well.
It looks like niterider also uses a fresnel lens, probably for the same reason.
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Old 06-03-23, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
I wonder what they were thinking being on the wrong side of the road? Weird.
I think they were dropped off by the car you can see behind them (uphill and in front of me) and decided to salmon to the trail. Then when they see a car is coming at them, they look toward the car, which night-blinds the driver.

However, lots of people do this the "correct" way around here, without issue. Also, apologies for the thread hijack. I really only meant to say thanks.
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Old 06-04-23, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101
Just wondering if there have been any new, less expensive developments of Busch & Muller's vertical cutoff beam design?

Summer's just around the corner and I'll be going into Niterider mode very soon!

My current lights are bright, but make me appear narcissistic to oncoming traffic and pedestrians...

Thanks in advance!
Are you looking for dynamo headlamps or rechargeable types? Any STVZO-compliant light must have the vertical cutoff, so for example, Lezyne has a collection of STVZO rechargeables: https://ride.lezyne.com/collections/...caAgUZEALw_wcB
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Old 06-04-23, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
Are you looking for dynamo headlamps or rechargeable types? Any STVZO-compliant light must have the vertical cutoff, so for example, Lezyne has a collection of STVZO rechargeables: https://ride.lezyne.com/collections/...caAgUZEALw_wcB
I have dynamo dreams, but for now, I need something I could mount on any bike.

Thanks for this link and post. It appears that 500 lumens is the most powerful model in the STVZO line.

STVZO certainly is a helpful search term!
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Old 06-05-23, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101
Thanks for this link and post. It appears that 500 lumens is the most powerful model in the STVZO line.
How fast will you be riding with this light? I don't know how nice the Lezyne optics are, but if they're anything near as nice as B&M/SON, then 500 lumens is quite a lot. I'm comfortable riding with an Edelux II at 25mph, and that is 100 lux. For reference, the Lezyne 115 lux light is only 310 lumens.
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Old 06-05-23, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cuevélo
How fast will you be riding with this light? I don't know how nice the Lezyne optics are, but if they're anything near as nice as B&M/SON, then 500 lumens is quite a lot. I'm comfortable riding with an Edelux II at 25mph, and that is 100 lux. For reference, the Lezyne 115 lux light is only 310 lumens.
I'll be using the vertical cutoff light around "trafficky" sections where I typically don't exceed 25mph. I plan to have this mounted atop my Paul Stem Cap Mount, and then have my Niterider / or L&M on the mount down below to activate during, faster, less-traffic sections of ride.

I've also considered having two matching Niterider Mini 750s mounted down farther below, on each the front fork rack mounts (on my bikes that are equipped with these).
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Old 06-05-23, 11:25 AM
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I'm not sure tech can fix the headlamp blinding problem. If you're being blinded, it's because someone aimed their light at you; presumably because they wanted to see you for some reason. Regardless of what you do to the light pattern, people will just adjust the aim accordingly. If you just reduce the light output, they probably won't buy it cause they want the blindingly strong light.
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Old 06-05-23, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ogsarg
I'm not sure tech can fix the headlamp blinding problem. If you're being blinded, it's because someone aimed their light at you; presumably because they wanted to see you for some reason. Regardless of what you do to the light pattern, people will just adjust the aim accordingly. If you just reduce the light output, they probably won't buy it cause they want the blindingly strong light.
There is something to be said about the German StVZO compliance.

I performed a little experiment with my cheapo xanes (vertical cutoff light, unsure if it's truly StVZO) and my Niterider & L& M lights.

I mounted all three on a horizontal pole and then turned the pole incrementally toward 1) a human participant standing 25 feet away and 2) a mirror approximately 25 feet away.

When completely horizontal/90degrees, the Xanes was bright but not "blinding." The NR and L&M were blinding. As I rotated the pole allowing the lights to incrementally point downward, the Xanes obviously continued to be non-blinding. The NR and L& M continued to be blinding when rotated forward to 30+degrees.

Most companies producing lighting aren't making their products for use in Germany, where StVZO compliance exists--where lens-making is more expensive. Furthermore, in the other 99% of the world where NO laws exist, most riders don't even know ....or care for that matter!

This is why Amazon is literally chock full of highly-powered lights that are relatively inexpensive, selling like hotcakes...
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Old 06-05-23, 12:19 PM
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I though you wanted something inexpensive, which is why I posted the three earlier ones.

If money is no object, this is the one I would consider. Also, Lupine SL A7. Both around $500.

https://supernova-lights.com/en/prod...-25-monkeylink
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Old 06-05-23, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
...two sets of bright lights are the night cyclists coming at me on the wrong side of the road. All I could see was those two sets of lights...
I get ya...Riding a short distance on the wrong side of the road to a trail head does not seem that bad. But look out, the blinded drivers could really loose it, some even being drawn into the lights. This is one of those rare instances where as a driver I would have laid on the horn and flashed my brights at them...

I miss my night rides...

As to the OP: We will know how successful the Busch & Muller's vertical cutoff beam design is as soon as they come out with the ChiCom knockoffs... Ha
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Old 06-05-23, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101
J
My current lights are bright, but make me appear narcissistic to oncoming traffic and pedestrians...
Some of the LED headlights on newer cars today are brighter than any bike light. Not sure why you would be concerned with this.
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Old 06-05-23, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ogsarg
I'm not sure tech can fix the headlamp blinding problem. If you're being blinded, it's because someone aimed their light at you; presumably because they wanted to see you for some reason. Regardless of what you do to the light pattern, people will just adjust the aim accordingly. If you just reduce the light output, they probably won't buy it cause they want the blindingly strong light.
Honest question: do you understand how the StVZO lights actually operate? That's under discussion, but you don't seem to grasp its advantages.
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Old 06-05-23, 03:44 PM
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It's true that motorists don't like bright bike headlights, even if they are properly aimed StVZO lights. But it's only one light and it's 1/3(?) the brightness of a car headlight on low beam. That's why I wear a helment light, so I can show them that I also have brights if they hit me with theirs.
I have been admiring the Supernova M99 DY Pro, which has a high setting that is closer to the brightness of a car headlight low beam. I wish B&M had something like that. Usually my IQ-X is bright enough, but not always.
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Old 06-05-23, 07:38 PM
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michaelm101 Go dynamo you won't regret it. However like chaadster said Lezyne is a great option for non-dynamo StVZO compliant stuff. Since much of my night riding these days is on bikes with dynamos or electric lights which are almost all StVZO (aside from my Supernova front light on my Single Speed/Fixed Gear RandoCross FunTime Machine (but that is mostly used off road and it is not a super bright light)

I think Busch and Müller is going to be hard to beat in terms of quality for StVZO stuff but Lezyne does make great stuff and one of the few non-European companies doing it.
I wish those light would become more popular though as they are quite handy and especially ones that are solid lights because I cannot tell you how many times I have had to close one eye and look away from the road or path I am on because of flashing lights.

Flashing lights are obviously not safe (as you have had people all over say they have trouble seeing when they are used) and those who claim it whether they want to admit it or not are selfish and as cyclists we don't need to be that way. It is fine in an absolute emergency when you are trying to signal to someone you need help but beyond that no other road user other than quickly moving emergency vehicles are using flashing lights (and I guess tow trucks but sometimes they are somewhat responding to an emergency though not in a first responder or police capacity).
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Old 06-05-23, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
michaelm101 Go dynamo you won't regret it. However like chaadster said Lezyne is a great option for non-dynamo StVZO compliant stuff. Since much of my night riding these days is on bikes with dynamos or electric lights which are almost all StVZO (aside from my Supernova front light on my Single Speed/Fixed Gear RandoCross FunTime Machine (but that is mostly used off road and it is not a super bright light)

I think Busch and Müller is going to be hard to beat in terms of quality for StVZO stuff but Lezyne does make great stuff and one of the few non-European companies doing it.
I wish those light would become more popular though as they are quite handy and especially ones that are solid lights because I cannot tell you how many times I have had to close one eye and look away from the road or path I am on because of flashing lights.

Flashing lights are obviously not safe (as you have had people all over say they have trouble seeing when they are used) and those who claim it whether they want to admit it or not are selfish and as cyclists we don't need to be that way. It is fine in an absolute emergency when you are trying to signal to someone you need help but beyond that no other road user other than quickly moving emergency vehicles are using flashing lights (and I guess tow trucks but sometimes they are somewhat responding to an emergency though not in a first responder or police capacity).
I just bought a Lumintop B01 for 37 bucks on Amazon and if I don't like it, returning is cost-free and easy!
I will check out the Lezyne, & perhaps the B&M, but a not so easy scenario... About, blinking lights, I use them, but only in the daytime!
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Old 06-05-23, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101
I just bought a Lumintop B01 for 37 bucks on Amazon and if I don't like it, returning is cost-free and easy!
I will check out the Lezyne, & perhaps the B&M, but a not so easy scenario... About, blinking lights, I use them, but only in the daytime!
Not really cost free but you aren't being charged...

Lezyne or B&M are the way to go and fairly easy to get, I mean if you are already supporting Billionaire Jeff Bezos' Amazon some schlub can drop it off at your house and make 71¢. Or your local shop can get it or buy it direct from Lezyne.

Blinking/flashing whatever you call them are dangerous for the very reason I have described I literally have to close one eye and turn my head to look away from the road or path I am on so the idea of being safer and more visible is gone out the door. There are also people who actually have seizures and or have vision issues or just don't want to see a flashing light in their face coming toward them for zero reason when a solid light will do a better job. I get a flashing light in an emergency situation but those are beyond rare.
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