3ttt Record Stem usable or not?
#1
“Senior” Member
Thread Starter
3ttt Record Stem usable or not?
I just acquired this from fellow forum member #NOLA Sekai 4K (Martin) in a very good transaction all around.
My cleanup and polishing (I generally like all things shiny when they can be) brought a crack at rear of the clamp area to light. I did not see it until cleanup, not sure it was really visible till then and I know it surprised Martin.
If you look at the crack it could seem to have resulted from the backer nut being press-fit into the body?
I felt like it had been there since manufacture…stem had obviously been ridden and if there from beginning might be ok.
Martin suggested getting on here and asking opinions. Please opinionate!
My cleanup and polishing (I generally like all things shiny when they can be) brought a crack at rear of the clamp area to light. I did not see it until cleanup, not sure it was really visible till then and I know it surprised Martin.
If you look at the crack it could seem to have resulted from the backer nut being press-fit into the body?
I felt like it had been there since manufacture…stem had obviously been ridden and if there from beginning might be ok.
Martin suggested getting on here and asking opinions. Please opinionate!
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 90 Times
in
64 Posts
Okay ....picture this ....you're riding down a hill rather quickly, and suddenly you lose the ability to steer or control your bicycle ....what's the worst that could happen ?
Likes For TPL:
#3
Edumacator
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,802
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2439 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times
in
1,964 Posts
I tend to minimize dings dents and cracks...
That’s one I would retire though I don’t think the complete crack through would be likely. If it cracked enough to loosen the bars, that might be a bit problematic.
That’s one I would retire though I don’t think the complete crack through would be likely. If it cracked enough to loosen the bars, that might be a bit problematic.
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,485
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1639 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 829 Times
in
538 Posts
Not a good place to have any stress cracks...... Unfortunately, that stem is most likely toast.....
__________________
72 Line Seeker
83 Davidson Signature
84 Peugeot PSV
84 Peugeot PY10FC
84 Gitane Tour de France.
85 Vitus Plus Carbone 7
86 ALAN Record Carbonio
86 Medici Aerodynamic (Project)
88 Pinarello Montello
89 Bottecchia Professional Chorus SL
95 Trek 5500 OCLV (Project)
72 Line Seeker
83 Davidson Signature
84 Peugeot PSV
84 Peugeot PY10FC
84 Gitane Tour de France.
85 Vitus Plus Carbone 7
86 ALAN Record Carbonio
86 Medici Aerodynamic (Project)
88 Pinarello Montello
89 Bottecchia Professional Chorus SL
95 Trek 5500 OCLV (Project)
Likes For Chombi1:
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 2,089
Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked 1,451 Times
in
723 Posts
I have been using a Cinelli 1A stem with such a crack for years on my Vitus 979. My dad used it before me. He didn't even know it was cracked! I don't really see how this could cause the stem to loosen, much less fail catastrophically. Think about it - it's already cracked in to the bolt hole, which is basically a keyhole on the end of a crack - which is what you're supposed to do to cracked metal parts to keep the crack from propagating. The way I see it, the crack has gone as far as it can go, and you are safe from further progression.
But I have a hunch that I'll be in the minority on this one.
But I have a hunch that I'll be in the minority on this one.
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Last edited by scarlson; 01-10-22 at 05:55 PM.
#6
Banned.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,294
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,824 Times
in
1,709 Posts
If you value all the parts that make your face recognizable to your friends, family, and co-workers, bin that stem.
As @jdawginsc points out, if the crack gets big enough to allow the bars to rotate - at exactly the wrong time, say, while braking hard downhill into a turn - very bad things can happen.
DD
As @jdawginsc points out, if the crack gets big enough to allow the bars to rotate - at exactly the wrong time, say, while braking hard downhill into a turn - very bad things can happen.
DD
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,448
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 874 Post(s)
Liked 2,287 Times
in
1,278 Posts
Yea, I agree that it is not worth the risk. When I climb, I use the handlebars a lot for pulling on whiles I push with my feet in the pedals. I have not had a failure but I would think it would fail with a crack that size.
#8
multimodal commuter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,808
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times
in
339 Posts
I have been using a Cinelli 1A stem with such a crack for years on my Vitus 979. My dad used it before me. He didn't even know it was cracked! I don't really see how this could cause the stem to loosen, much less fail catastrophically. Think about it - it's already cracked in to the bolt hole, which is basically a keyhole on the end of a crack - which is what you're supposed to do to cracked metal parts to keep the crack from propagating. The way I see it, the crack has gone as far as it can go, and you are safe from further progression.
But I have a hunch that I'll be in the minority on this one.
But I have a hunch that I'll be in the minority on this one.
edit... I have seen several 3ttt stems that had failed rather catastrophically, but it was not this model, and not this failure. This one, I think, will get a little worse before it gets a lot worse.
__________________
www.rhmsaddles.com.
www.rhmsaddles.com.
Likes For rhm:
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Evanston, IL
Posts: 5,093
Bikes: many
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1444 Post(s)
Liked 1,392 Times
in
760 Posts
Do you have a picture with the clamp bolt removed that shows how deep the crack is? Is there something super special about the stem, like, it was made of unobtainium? If not, why not just source a replacement?
#10
“Senior” Member
Thread Starter
The rear press-fit splined nut does not remove for a clearer photo. Nothing I could ever capture in a photo, but you can tell the crack does seem go through the rear below the nut but tapers quickly to not travel all the way. Looking inside it cannot be seen extending past that press fit nut so it feathers out on the surface…
This comment showed up on velobase in 2014 by an “s barber” :
“These stems are sometimes found with a crack in the aluminum where the conical splines of the nut wedged into the alloy. These cracks are typically non-critical.”
There’s an unrelated comment above that by a wolfram verktyg… there is a user here named Verktyg also! Probably same?
This comment showed up on velobase in 2014 by an “s barber” :
“These stems are sometimes found with a crack in the aluminum where the conical splines of the nut wedged into the alloy. These cracks are typically non-critical.”
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Posts: 11,674
Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1372 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,751 Times
in
938 Posts
I would not trust that stem for a single ride. If it fails, utterly, and it will, your handlebar will become darn near useless. Get rid of the stem and get a new another one - they are not that expensive!
__________________
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
#12
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,784
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3587 Post(s)
Liked 3,400 Times
in
1,934 Posts
The only stem I've had fail was a TTT stem, and that's where it failed. I don't know if I had been riding it cracked; I was on a loaded tour, stopped for a rest, wind blew the bike over, and when I picked it up, the handlebar fell off.
#13
Passista
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,597
Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked 721 Times
in
396 Posts
I'd never use a cracked fork, stem or handlebar. The chances of them breaking might be very small, but if it happens it could be ugly.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,265
Bikes: '82 Univega Competizione, '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '83 Mercian KOM Touring, '85 Univega Alpina Uno, '76 Eisentraut Limited
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked 1,205 Times
in
701 Posts
There are so many stems that don’t have cracks. Why take a chance?
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,829 Times
in
1,995 Posts
At some point the bars will loosen. I think its time for retirement. And a torque wrench.
The bars will loosen at a point when you don't want them to, like hour(s) from home.
The bars will loosen at a point when you don't want them to, like hour(s) from home.
#19
Newbie
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
In my opinion, if its going to fail it will fail at the worst time possible. the fact that it has cracked at all would indicate that an importantant part of its structural 'integrity' has been compremised. Ask yourself this question 'would i fit this part onto my favorite childs favorite bike, knowing it has a crack in it'? and there in lies your answer...
#20
“Senior” Member
Thread Starter
Thanks all. This is like group therapy. I have decided not to use the stem as it is.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 2,089
Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked 1,451 Times
in
723 Posts
@rhm and I can fight over it!
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 2,089
Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked 1,451 Times
in
723 Posts
Can you explain where exactly the crack on yours ran? Inquiring minds and whatnot.
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
#23
Edumacator
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,802
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2439 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times
in
1,964 Posts
It is probably 2% chance it will fail. If your luck is anything close to mine, I'd be the 2%...it's no fun riding with doubt in the back of your head...
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
#24
“Senior” Member
Thread Starter
Response to above. There are plenty of photos above that will show the crack location.
And also to share that the seller NOLA Sekai 4K (Martin) is a great guy to work with!
And also to share that the seller NOLA Sekai 4K (Martin) is a great guy to work with!
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 2,089
Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked 1,451 Times
in
723 Posts
Interestingly, it is known that the Cinelli 1E stem, which was designed to have a front-facing reflector bolted on the back, had a tendency to develop a crack similar to the one you show here, if the reflector was removed, because the tapered hole in the backside was not reamed large enough to accommodate the increased depth/diameter of the knurled nut sans reflector. Yet another way CPSC
My 1A with a similar crack to yours does, indeed, have an aftermarket nut - one of those Arnold Industries ultralightweight jobs. I think that's why mine cracked. It sounds an awful lot like the "non-critical" cracks mentioned by S. Barber on Velobase. Still riding it though - I'll post a picture tomorrow as the capstone of my dissenting opinion, and then I will shut up about it...
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Last edited by scarlson; 01-11-22 at 04:44 PM.